Rub & Tug

[Aximili86]

Uhm, what?

She's playing a woman dressing in men's clothes, of course it's at least tangentially linked. What I was getting at is, her retort doesn't necessarily clarify it either way either. We already knew the character crossdressed. That's different to seeing herself as a guy, mentally, especially if it's being done for pragmatic social-climbing reasons alone.

She could very easily just be firing back at the hypocrisy of such criticisms, given Tambor, a straight man, was playing someone who did identify as female (not sure if the show was based on a real person or not, but the character...) and before his sex scandal stuff nobody had the slightest problem with him doing it. Her response comes off pretty much as just "it's a problem for you now and wasn't 6 months ago? bite me, hysterical troublemakers". Just...more polite.

 

[Skrilla31]

If Scarlet wasn't an outspoken progressive who was just involved in a whitewashing controversy and responded aggressively to (mostly) reasonable criticism, there would be considerably less pearl clutching. I think it's a good thing that we are now treating transgender folks as people and not curiosities.

The problem with being progressive is that you can never be progressive 'enough', and if you don't adhere to someone else's definition of progressiveness you are held in shame and contempt.

 

[Aximili86]

Eee-yup. They eat their own eventually.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Uhm, what?

She's playing a woman dressing in men's clothes, of course it's at least tangentially linked. What I was getting at is, her retort doesn't necessarily clarify it either way either. We already knew the character crossdressed. That's different to seeing herself as a guy, mentally, especially if it's being done for pragmatic social-climbing reasons alone.

She could very easily just be firing back at the hypocrisy of such criticisms, given Tambor, a straight man, was playing someone who did identify as female (not sure if the show was based on a real person or not, but the character...) and before his sex scandal stuff nobody had the slightest problem with him doing it. Her response comes off pretty much as just "it's a problem for you now and wasn't 6 months ago? bite me, hysterical troublemakers". Just...more polite.

Except that would be a strange argument, as there has been backlash in all these cases.

 

[Aximili86]

To Tambor for playing the role, or did that start once his bad behavior became public?

Pretty sure progressives have been fawning all over Transparent since it first aired. Tambor's what brought it down, not the fact Tambor was playing a trans person.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

To Tambor for playing the role, or did that start once his bad behavior became public?

Pretty sure progressives have been fawning all over Transparent since it first aired. Tambor's what brought it down, not the fact Tambor was playing a trans person.

This is from last May. Not 2018, but 2017.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/l...roles-elle-fanning-eddie-redmayne-more-998984

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Something really unpleasant about Johansson. Can't say I've enjoyed any of her performances and she's a block of wood in all the Marvel movies.

 

[Aximili86]

Please.


https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/01/04/inside-out-on-television-emily-nussbaum

https://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/entry/transparent-amazon-review_n_5883154

https://www.vox.com/2014/9/25/6845055/transparent-review-amazon-binge



There's your NYer, HuffPo, your Vox. As progressive as media gets, and they're eating this **** up.

They say a word on the Scarlett movie, they're jackasses. Plain and simple. Unless they're going to make the case there's been a radical social shift regarding transgender people and what-is-and-isn't-okay-in-media since 2014.

Everyone was figuratively making out with Huffman about being some big brave risky hero with her movie a few years back, too.

 

[zephyrinthesky]

Were Johansson's PR team drunk, stoned or high? Literally all they had to do was say nothing ("oops, missed your message while on July 4th holiday") or pass the buck to the faceless studio that cast her for a response. Film twitter/tumblr would have its mini-tantrum and everything would have been forgotten over the holiday.

 

[jmc]

It will still pass over. The reality is even if non trans actors stop playing trans characters there isn’t the necessary talent of trans actors to be choosing from because of how small the community is. I get it those people are in a bind in terms of the type of roles they can get but at the same time this is a business and bigger name actors are going to increase the likelihood of a film succeeding. And besides, it’s acting. I don’t like the idea of actors being told you can’t play a particular role, it’s basically saying you have to stay in your own identity lane and to give up something for someone else. Newsflash - life isn’t fair, and most people in this world put themselves ahead of everyone else.

 

[Zarex]

The problem with being progressive is that you can never be progressive 'enough', and if you don't adhere to someone else's definition of progressiveness you are held in shame and contempt.

The problem being an outspoken proponent of issues is which you choose to ignore them when taking a moral stance could cost you professionally. Scarlett's got a bad track record here.

Eee-yup. They eat their own eventually.

It's definitely a lot easier when you have no sense of decency, moral standing, basic human compassion or shame. Much harder to get worked up over other problems that ain't yours.

 

[NotNickFury]

Something really unpleasant about Johansson. Can't say I've enjoyed any of her performances and she's a block of wood in all the Marvel movies.

I thought Groot was the wood one.

Okay, I'm finished.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Please.


https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/01/04/inside-out-on-television-emily-nussbaum

https://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/entry/transparent-amazon-review_n_5883154

https://www.vox.com/2014/9/25/6845055/transparent-review-amazon-binge



There's your NYer, HuffPo, your Vox. As progressive as media gets, and they're eating this **** up.

They say a word on the Scarlett movie, they're jackasses. Plain and simple. Unless they're going to make the case there's been a radical social shift regarding transgender people and what-is-and-isn't-okay-in-media since 2014.

Everyone was figuratively making out with Huffman about being some big brave risky hero with her movie a few years back, too.

You said there was no backlash. I showed there was. Does everything need to be backlash for there to be backlash?

Also I love how the evolution of a subject is somehow impossible for an editorial staff, even as viewpoints change and turnover is a thing.

 

[terry78]

So now we all hate ScarJo. Damn I missed a lot being at the fam's for the holiday.

 

[Sawyer]

There’s not exactly an abundance of trans performers, let alone ones who’d get big studio backing.

But how can they get to a spot where there is one if no one is really giving them a shot?

Exactly. This makes me remember the fuss over WB looking for a female director for Wonder Woman, and the first thing that came up from a number of guys around here was "Well, why can't they just hire the best person for the job?" The vast majority of films haven't had men at the helm because men are best for the job. They've had men at the helm because there's a system keeping them there, and to make a change, there actually needs to be a concerted effort to do so.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

So now we all hate ScarJo. Damn I missed a lot being at the fam's for the holiday.

Between this and Woody Allen, it has me wondering. You know the guy who raped his daughter according to his daughter, medical professionals, and the courts, but some like to act like it is some nebulous idea.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Exactly. This makes me remember the fuss over WB looking for a female director for Wonder Woman, and the first thing that came up from a number of guys around here was "Well, why can't they just hire the best person for the job?" The vast majority of films haven't had men at the helm because men are best for the job. They've had men at the helm because there's a system keeping them there, and to make a change, there actually needs to be a concerted effort to do so.

I am waiting for, "trans people don't even want to play the lead in Hollywood films" argument.

 

[Skrilla31]

Exactly. This makes me remember the fuss over WB looking for a female director for Wonder Woman, and the first thing that came up from a number of guys around here was "Well, why can't they just hire the best person for the job?" The vast majority of films haven't had men at the helm because men are best for the job. They've had men at the helm because there's a system keeping them there, and to make a change, there actually needs to be a concerted effort to do so.

There are plenty of rich, affluent women in Hollywood. Nothing is stopping them from venturing into business for themselves, producing their own movies and hiring whoever they please.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

There are plenty of rich, affluent women in Hollywood. Nothing is stopping them from venturing into business for themselves, producing their own movies and hiring whoever they please.

Why would they need to do that? Also how does this tie into big studio projects, and material that is tied to said studios? You see a lot of independent 150m dollar films, even from only men?

 

[Flash525]

I thought Groot was the wood one.

Okay, I'm finished.

SHH is missing a reputation system.

 

[Skrilla31]

Why would they need to do that? Also how does this tie into big studio projects, and material that is tied to said studios? You see a lot of independent 150m dollar films, even from only men?

I'm saying if someone owns a film studio and produces movies, no one has any right to tell them who they can and cannot hire. If they hire a man for the job, so be it. If they hire a woman for the job, so be it.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I'm saying if someone owns a film studio and produces movies, no one has any right to tell them who they can and cannot hire. If they hire a man for the job, so be it. If they hire a woman for the job, so be it.

Your response to the argument over striving for diversity and change in Hollywood is rich women should go start making their own movies.

 

[Skrilla31]

Your response to the argument over striving for diversity and change in Hollywood is rich women should go start making their own movies.

Diversity doesn't mean anything in this case.



Do you think movies are going to get better just because there are more women behind the camera?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Diversity doesn't mean anything in this case.



Do you think movies are going to get better just because there are more women behind the camera?

Yes. On a whole, movies would be better with just as many films made by women, then men. Same with more minorities voices in general. The Authenticity of a woman's voice can be felt in material about women. Same with minorities voices. Wonder Woman and Black Panther are rather fantastic examples of this.

 

[Skrilla31]

Yes. On a whole, movies would be better with just as many films made by women, then men. Same with more minorities voices in general. The Authenticity of a woman's voice can be felt in material about women. Same with minorities voices. Wonder Woman and Black Panther are rather fantastic examples of this.

Both created by white men.