Age of Ultron Ruffahulk Ruffasmash

[CoherentChaos]

Yeah that's really weird given how Avengers 1 ended on the note of "hey, Hulk can be a team player. He's a hero, not a monster!" only for them to pull a 180 at the opening of AoU before the **** even hits the fan.

My best guess would be that Bruce Banner, being typically gentle-natured, doesn't like the idea of playing offense against human targets. NYC was different in that they were defending a city from alien invasion. So even though the humans in question are HYDRA, I guess he may still have a moral dilemma about weaponizing Hulk against people. The Avengers are playing offense, and he doesn't like being the ace in the hole against an enemy that doesn't stand a chance anyways.

That's the only way I could rationalize it. Make it less about him not liking the transformation, but more about him not liking the fact that he's intentionally hurting people now, after a life time of seclusion for the expressed purpose of preventing Hulk from hurting others, no matter who they are. If it were any other situation, robots, aliens, zombies, "gods", whatever, then he'd be totally fine with allowing Hulk some play time.

 

[Quasimod0]

We definitely need to wait to see how it all plays out, before we can judge.

 

[Herolee10]

Yeah that's really weird given how Avengers 1 ended on the note of "hey, Hulk can be a team player. He's a hero, not a monster!" only for them to pull a 180 at the opening of AoU before the **** even hits the fan.

My best guess would be that Bruce Banner, being typically gentle-natured, doesn't like the idea of playing offense against human targets. NYC was different in that they were defending a city from alien invasion. So even though the humans in question are HYDRA, I guess he may still have a moral dilemma about weaponizing Hulk against people. The Avengers are playing offense, and he doesn't like being the ace in the hole against an enemy that doesn't stand a chance anyways.

That's the only way I could rationalize it. Make it less about him not liking the transformation, but more about him not liking the fact that he's intentionally hurting people now, after a life time of seclusion for the expressed purpose of preventing Hulk from hurting others, no matter who they are. If it were any other situation, robots, aliens, zombies, "gods", whatever, then he'd be totally fine with allowing Hulk some play time.

Agreed.

Also, I think it's possible that as more time passes, the Hulk persona is becoming more self-aware of itself, thus becoming more of a distinct persona that's battling for control over Banner's body, thus the longer time has passed....along with Banner allowing the Hulk to come out, the more control the Hulk is seemingly able to take from Banner as a result.

 

[Keyser Soze]

It's interesting hear, from the latest reports from the Empire article, on how Banner actually doesn't like transforming into the Hulk for these hero missions, let alone hearing about the things that the Hulk did as a result.

I think that totally makes sense in terms of Banner's character. With his "I'm always angry" line in the first film, we got a sense that he'd come to peace with the fact that The Hulk persona can be harnassed and pointed in the right direction, if not outright controlled. Clearly with him getting an Avengers uniform, he's come to tolerate the idea of turning into The Hulk when required as opposed to keeping that part of him locked up. But that doesn't mean he's going to enjoy it. He described the process of turning into The Hulk as being like exposing a raw nerve, I can't imagine it's pleasant for him, whether he's doing it willingly or not. If anything, the fact that he still hates turning into The Hulk but does it willingly for a good cause makes him MORE heroic.

 

[Quasimod0]

I agree Well said.

 

[Lilbaz]

I think that totally makes sense in terms of Banner's character. With his "I'm always angry" line in the first film, we got a sense that he'd come to peace with the fact that The Hulk persona can be harnassed and pointed in the right direction, if not outright controlled. Clearly with him getting an Avengers uniform, he's come to tolerate the idea of turning into The Hulk when required as opposed to keeping that part of him locked up. But that doesn't mean he's going to enjoy it. He described the process of turning into The Hulk as being like exposing a raw nerve, I can't imagine it's pleasant for him, whether he's doing it willingly or not. If anything, the fact that he still hates turning into The Hulk but does it willingly for a good cause makes him MORE heroic.

All I got was the impression that he doesn't need to get angry to summon the Hulk, but that he is in a constant battle to suppress his emotions. In order to keep the Hulk from emerging.
He hates the Hulk so much that he tried killing himself to stop the monster. The only reason he let lose was because the invasion was a bigger threat.

 

[Keyser Soze]

All I got was the impression that he doesn't need to get angry to summon the Hulk, but that he is in a constant battle to suppress his emotions. In order to keep the Hulk from emerging.
He hates the Hulk so much that he tried killing himself to stop the monster. The only reason he let lose was because the invasion was a bigger threat.

To me, it ties into the end scene in The Incredible Hulk, where we see Norton's Banner tapping into The Hulk via meditation. It seems to me that, over the course of The Avengers, Banner realises that it's damaging to attempt to keep his anger buttoned down, because eventually it's going to explode and he'll have no control over it. But by tapping into his anger, accepting it's always going to be there and dealing with it rather than trying to make it go away, he can better manage his Hulk transformation, do it on his own terms.

In a lot of ways, it's a quite poetic analogy for depression or mental illness. Where people who refuse to accept they have it, go off their meds and try to force themselves to live "normally," can find themselves in an eventual crisis when all their underlying issues keep building and building until they hit breaking point. But those who accept their condition and manage it with medication and therapy can learn to cope better.

 

[Farren]

I think that totally makes sense in terms of Banner's character. With his "I'm always angry" line in the first film, we got a sense that he'd come to peace with the fact that The Hulk persona can be harnassed and pointed in the right direction, if not outright controlled. Clearly with him getting an Avengers uniform, he's come to tolerate the idea of turning into The Hulk when required as opposed to keeping that part of him locked up. But that doesn't mean he's going to enjoy it. He described the process of turning into The Hulk as being like exposing a raw nerve, I can't imagine it's pleasant for him, whether he's doing it willingly or not. If anything, the fact that he still hates turning into The Hulk but does it willingly for a good cause makes him MORE heroic.

I agree with this. Banner may have found a better coping mechanism than his previous one (where he just kept trying to suppress the Hulk all the time), but that doesn't mean he has to like it or accept it. Because turning into a (potentially uncontrollable) rage monster isn't exactly a healthy coping mechanism either.

 

[A Necessary Evil]

I just want May to get here.

 

[CoherentChaos]

I think that totally makes sense in terms of Banner's character. With his "I'm always angry" line in the first film, we got a sense that he'd come to peace with the fact that The Hulk persona can be harnassed and pointed in the right direction, if not outright controlled. Clearly with him getting an Avengers uniform, he's come to tolerate the idea of turning into The Hulk when required as opposed to keeping that part of him locked up. But that doesn't mean he's going to enjoy it. He described the process of turning into The Hulk as being like exposing a raw nerve, I can't imagine it's pleasant for him, whether he's doing it willingly or not. If anything, the fact that he still hates turning into The Hulk but does it willingly for a good cause makes him MORE heroic.

I always wondered about this line. They're talking about armor there, and while Hulk's bare flesh is considerably more durable than even Tony's power suit, Bruce still compares it to vulnerability.

I wonder if Hulk is always in pain or something. And while sure, he can shrug off jetfire to the face, it still hurts like a *****, and maybe Bruce feels it too. And he's exposed to a lot of it, because

1) Hulk's a large target, and
2) A sensible person runs away from gunfire. Hulk crashes into it. Hulk uses himself as an explosive projectile, sending machinery ablaze, searing his flesh, colliding with hot metal, breathing in searing air. Hulk just exposes himself to more and more abuse, which only feeds his frenzy. He can take it, nothing on Earth can kill him, but everything on Earth sure as hell can hurt him.

 

[Quasimod0]

That is a really interesting way of looking that. I hadn't even considered that before.

 

[Lilbaz]

I always wondered about this line. They're talking about armor there, and while Hulk's bare flesh is considerably more durable than even Tony's power suit, Bruce still compares it to vulnerability.

I wonder if Hulk is always in pain or something. And while sure, he can shrug off jetfire to the face, it still hurts like a *****, and maybe Bruce feels it too. And he's exposed to a lot of it, because

1) Hulk's a large target, and
2) A sensible person runs away from gunfire. Hulk crashes into it. Hulk uses himself as an explosive projectile, sending machinery ablaze, searing his flesh, colliding with hot metal, breathing in searing air. Hulk just exposes himself to more and more abuse, which only feeds his frenzy. He can take it, nothing on Earth can kill him, but everything on Earth sure as hell can hurt him.

You might be right. I always thought that the actual transformation was agony.

 

[Keyser Soze]

You might be right. I always thought that the actual transformation was agony.

Oh yeah, you gotta imagine it would be, with skin stretching and bones growing like that.

 

[Doc Samson]

I think that totally makes sense in terms of Banner's character. With his "I'm always angry" line in the first film, we got a sense that he'd come to peace with the fact that The Hulk persona can be harnassed and pointed in the right direction, if not outright controlled. Clearly with him getting an Avengers uniform, he's come to tolerate the idea of turning into The Hulk when required as opposed to keeping that part of him locked up. But that doesn't mean he's going to enjoy it. He described the process of turning into The Hulk as being like exposing a raw nerve, I can't imagine it's pleasant for him, whether he's doing it willingly or not. If anything, the fact that he still hates turning into The Hulkbut does it willingly for a good cause makes him MORE heroic.

And this is why, while others may be happy to see a "different" take on the Hulk, how he was able to control it bothered me in the first film. Logically, with the ending to TIH, it made sense. But it's about preference I guess, and I prefer the Hulk to remain a raging, uncontrollable beast, to me, that's really the only way it works. Whatever the reasoning for it, I'm more than happy to see Banner unable to control his transformations again, and I hope it's permanent (although being "mind-controlled" in some way again would be a disappointing, unimaginative retread).

 

[First Avenger]

I just want May to get here.

I get you,brother.

 

[MbJ]

The situation with the Hulk rumors thickens.

Spoiler

So, Hot Topic sell their exclusive version of Star Wars #1 for $3.99, sealed. Their version also has an ad for Funko Pop’s Avengers, which they are selling – including an exclusive figure. This is that ad.

Which is all fine and dandy until the Hot Topic head office/Marvel gets in a tizzy, as it appears that this ad has a serious spoiler for the upcoming Avengers: Age Of Ultron movie. First, retailers are told to hold the comic until May 1st, then to destroy them.

 

[Spitfire]

And this is why, while others may be happy to see a "different" take on the Hulk, how he was able to control it bothered me in the first film. Logically, with the ending to TIH, it made sense. But it's about preference I guess, and I prefer the Hulk to remain a raging, uncontrollable beast, to me, that's really the only way it works. Whatever the reasoning for it, I'm more than happy to see Banner unable to control his transformations again, and I hope it's permanent (although being "mind-controlled" in some way again would be a disappointing, unimaginative retread).

The arc of the movie seems to show Banner in control at the beginning, before he starts to unravel and we see him struggling/unable to control the Hulk persona by the end of the movie. The Hulk may be physically strong, but he (and Banner) are as mentally vulnerable as anyone else and this will be his achilles heel.

I always preferred the Hulk to be this constant, menacing threat that can appear at any time and not be used as a convenient weapon when the need arises. The Banner/Hulk character should be unpredictable, and both personas should be uncomfortable with the other while through necessity maintaining an uneasy understanding. A mind-controlled Hulk rampage would be unimaginative and VERY disappointing.

 

[Mjölnir]

Why is it unimaginative to have the Hulk, who is a mental midget, be mind-controlled but it's not unimaginative to have the unstable guy fight the heroes again?

 

[A Necessary Evil]

The situation with the Hulk rumors thickens.

No, I think it's just a variant.

 

[terry78]

Though I wonder if indeed Whedon is throwing us a sample of Grey Hulk at some point. That could be a possibility where Banner does realize Hulk is kinda of becoming his own man apart from him. Not that he's becoming evil, but that he wants to be in control more and more. Hell, the cartoons already do this.

 

[MbJ]

No, I think it's just a variant.

If it's just a variant that makes Marvel's actions regarding the ad very odd. The store has already pulled the Star Wars issue with the advertisement.

 

[Herolee10]

Finally comes to a full visual circle.lol

 

[A Necessary Evil]

If it's just a variant that makes Marvel's actions regarding the ad very odd. The store has already pulled the Star Wars issue with the advertisement.

Marvel is a weird company after all, but I could be wrong. Like I said, I do think it's just a variant, but I would definitely welcome Joe Fixit into the MCU.t:

 

[A Necessary Evil]

Oh, and I wish my green eyes were that beautiful when I hulk out.

 

[Herolee10]

Oh, and I wish my green eyes were that beautiful when I hulk out.

I'm sure I.L.M (Iris Loving Mechanics) can help you out with that