Age of Ultron Ruffahulk Ruffasmash

[TheComicbookKid]

So, Hulk turning against his teammates, being untrustworthy due to outside interference....seems like a bit of a rehash of the first film.

Yep!! I'm glad I wasn't the only one not totally pumped to see the Hulk fighting the Avengers again.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

So...what? Why is that 40 year old story relevant now?He also teamed up with Namor to destroy the Avengers, should Whedon write that as well? Even in the comics his Avengers membership is inconsistent, and right now he's currently a member of two different Avengers teams, and has been a for a while now. In the Ultimate universe he's consistently been the weapon last resort for their Avengers equivalent, is that somehow less canon in the eyes of the MCU?

Ease down on the throttle... Your just grinding metal.

Look, I don't think you can say that the way things were in the comics until recently (say, oh... the last, what? 8 to 10 years?) should have no baring on the films. That's me personally though. Of course there's going to be changes from page to screen. But facts are that Hulk is there at the start of the team and absent for decades at a stretch from the books and there is a reason inherent to the character. As I've pointed out lots of times, Whedon himself says that in his view at the heart of it, the Hulk story is more a werewolf tale than some straight up super hero uplift story. This is not conducive to being part of a super hero team whose mission is the protection of the wider world. It's out of step with the essence of the Hulk character, a half man/half monster hounded at every turn, mistrusted and hunted by forces that want to exploit or destroy him. The Hulk IS Banner's rage and pain as well as his sense of superiority. This is not a team player character. Banner might be, but in the end, the Hulk is too much of a wild card. I think that if it plays out like you said, sort of a rehash of A1 but with a different ending with Bruce leaving, that it makes sense. Banner realizes that he's more detriment than hero and gets outta dodge before people start placing calls to Thunderbolt Ross and Talbot. This also opens up TWO spots on the roster both speaking of the team but also the cast. Screen time dedicated to Hulk and Banner can be distributed to newer characters.There are reasons beyond just "it was in the comics" that make sense for Hulk to leave. When I think of the Hulk, I am sorry to say, but I don't think of Superman in ripped jeans. I think, "Man/Monster" and that's not a combo that could ever make for a stable team member. Add in possible feelings of betrayal, a return of the fear of losing oneself to the monster, apprehension at how the world will react... Yeah. That's not adding up to "everyone shakes hands and has a hearty laugh about this all in Avenger's Tower" right before credits roll. YMMV but that's my view.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Yep!! I'm glad I wasn't the only one not totally pumped to see the Hulk fighting the Avengers again.

He fought one Avenger in A1 and in this film it's not even that same one. I can't claim there aren't similar elements but the mix seems different, and certainly the outcome could be very difficult.

Of course if he happens to run into Harry Dean again...

 

[Roose Bolton]

Ease down on the throttle... Your just grinding metal.

Look, I don't think you can say that the way things were in the comics until recently (say, oh... the last, what? 8 to 10 years?) should have no baring on the films. That's me personally though. Of course there's going to be changes from page to screen. But facts are that Hulk is there at the start of the team and absent for decades at a stretch from the books and there is a reason inherent to the character. As I've pointed out lots of times, Whedon himself says that in his view at the heart of it, the Hulk story is more a werewolf tale than some straight up super hero uplift story. This is not conducive to being part of a super hero team whose mission is the protection of the wider world. It's out of step with the essence of the Hulk character, a half man/half monster hounded at every turn, mistrusted and hunted by forces that want to exploit or destroy him. The Hulk IS Banner's rage and pain as well as his sense of superiority. This is not a team player character. Banner might be, but in the end, the Hulk is too much of a wild card. I think that if it plays out like you said, sort of a rehash of A1 but with a different ending with Bruce leaving, that it makes sense. Banner realizes that he's more detriment than hero and gets outta dodge before people start placing calls to Thunderbolt Ross and Talbot. This also opens up TWO spots on the roster both speaking of the team but also the cast. Screen time dedicated to Hulk and Banner can be distributed to newer characters.There are reasons beyond just "it was in the comics" that make sense for Hulk to leave. When I think of the Hulk, I am sorry to say, but I don't think of Superman in ripped jeans. I think, "Man/Monster" and that's not a combo that could ever make for a stable team member. Add in possible feelings of betrayal, a return of the fear of losing oneself to the monster, apprehension at how the world will react... Yeah. That's not adding up to "everyone shakes hands and has a hearty laugh about this all in Avenger's Tower" right before credits roll. YMMV but that's my view.

I don't think I, nor anyone else ever wanted him to be Superman in ripped jeans. Hulk has tragedy heaped upon him it's true, but the strength of the character has never been the sad-sack, universal monster aspect, at least in my opinion. What makes Hulk a great character is the fact that he does get all the hatred thrown at him, from the media, the military, the superhuman community, yet despite what they think or he himself, as Banner, might think, at the end of the day he always comes through and proves himself to be a hero. Savage and wrathful, yes, but heroic nonetheless.

And more on point, to have him just walk away from the team after one movie and, well, three years of pretty much not interacting with them doesn't feel like a genuinely tragedy. It hasn't been earnt and is too soon to pull out that card.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I don't think I, nor anyone else ever wanted him to be Superman in ripped jeans. Hulk has tragedy heaped upon him it's true, but the strength of the character has never been the sad-sack, universal monster aspect, at least in my opinion. What makes Hulk a great character is the fact that he does get all the hatred thrown at him, from the media, the military, the superhuman community, yet despite what they think or he himself, as Banner, might think, at the end of the day he always comes through and proves himself to be a hero. Savage and wrathful, yes, but heroic nonetheless.

And more on point, to have him just walk away from the team after one movie and, well, three years of pretty much not interacting with them doesn't feel like a genuinely tragedy. It hasn't been earnt and is too soon to pull out that card.

I see what you mean. Banner has only appeared in that IM3 post credit scene and that's it. For this RuffaHulk version it could come across as though we haven't spent all that much time with him. But I think for one, the Hulk as a general pop culture character has more weight in the audience's mind than the other members of the team. Even if the Ang Lee and Leterier film's didn't set the world on fire, they still added to the pop culture legacy of a character that we feel more or less familiar with. This can allow for some short cuts drama wise that say, you couldn't pull off with Thor or Scarlet Witch. We are pretty aware of the depths of Banner's apprehension about himself and the world. We don't have to have a huge detailed tapestry woven for us to get things, and with a talent like Ruffalo a lot can be done with a little so that perhaps the impact is greater than you might expect. It's like the scene where widow goes to collect Banner in A1. Banner's line of "Not always getting what I want" while casually fidgeting with a child's crib get's a lot across. I could see Banner leaving being a gut shot emotionally in the film even though as you said it could seem like the team was never quite a full fledged brotherhood of super heroes for an extended period.

 

[Lilbaz]

I love the Hulk because he is the wildcard. He is an unbelievable weapon if you can get him focused but he is just as likely to hulk out and destroy everything. He is like a berserker or a force of nature. Volatile and dangerous.

Blackwidow seems to be the one in the film to be able to keep him calm and he seems to respect Cap. But you know you are walking on egg shells. It brings an extra element to the team.

Disagree that he needs to be the werewolf a lone figure always hunted. There is so much more that they can do with him. Hulk is not to be pitied (Hulk is strongest of them all!).The only problem is his main villains are a bit crap for movies (especially as we have so many green characters already). His best fights were usually against other heroes. Thor, Spidey, Fantastic Four, Avengers etc...

 

[Roose Bolton]

http://www.dailysuperhero.com/2014/08/talking-to-myself-about-marvel-and.html

This might be why we aren't getting any Hulk solo films in the immediate future...

 

[cherokeesam]

http://www.dailysuperhero.com/2014/08/talking-to-myself-about-marvel-and.html

This might be why we aren't getting any Hulk solo films in the immediate future...

But Hulk can continue to guest in other films, including the Avengers. And GOTG.... *koff*planethulk*koff*

 

[ElectroFlare]

I wonder what legally qualifies as an "ensemble movie" for that contact? Not having "Hulk" in the title? Hulk/Banner not being the lead? Having multiple leads? Disney has people employed that are smarter then me, and that took me all of 5 seconds to speculate. I'm sure they've examined it, but this "ensemble" loophole is interesting

 

[Doc Samson]

I love the Hulk because he is the wildcard. He is an unbelievable weapon if you can get him focused but he is just as likely to hulk out and destroy everything. He is like a berserker or a force of nature. Volatile and dangerous.

Blackwidow seems to be the one in the film to be able to keep him calm and he seems to respect Cap. But you know you are walking on egg shells. It brings an extra element to the team.

Disagree that he needs to be the werewolf a lone figure always hunted. There is so much more that they can do with him. Hulk is not to be pitied (Hulk is strongest of them all!).The only problem is his main villains are a bit crap for movies (especially as we have so many green characters already). His best fights were usually against other heroes. Thor, Spidey, Fantastic Four, Avengers etc...

I, personally, have always preferred the traditional "lone figure always hunted" angle as you put it. That's just a preference from my era. But I do enjoy how he's incorporated into the Avengers so far, it gives Ruffalo a change of pace to play with that Norton/Bana weren't afforded.

That being said, the unpredictability of the Hulk is always the reason those close relationships don't work, and I suspect that to be the case now. I'm not sure I would want to see him shoehorned into any other films outside of another solo one, and I definitely don't want any outerspace 'Planet Hulk' stuff that everyone seems to love so much.

What I do think needs to happen though, is the appearance of another Hulk incarnation. Particularly the Gray Hulk. Not necessarily Mr. Fixit because that could be corny in live action, but just the more sinister, cerebral Gray Hulk. That would be a fantastic curveball for the Avengers to have to deal with IMO...

 

[Roose Bolton]

But Hulk can continue to guest in other films, including the Avengers. And GOTG.... *koff*planethulk*koff*

Gunn's already violently shot down any Hulk in GOTG2, so it's probably just Avengers.

 

[cherokeesam]

Gunn's already violently shot down any Hulk in GOTG2, so it's probably just Avengers.

Yeah, but methinks Gunn doth protest too much. The Planet Hulk rumors came from the same sources who correctly pegged Marvel's Phase III slate, so it's kinda hard to isolate the one rumor from the other ones that proved true.

 

[gildedmuse]

I know I am like one of three people more invested in Banner than the Hulk but I just.... I want Banner to have this one thing, like this is his family now! These are people that like him and actually want him around and aren't constantly afraid of that!

Which is how I know that inevitably this movie will end in all of that being lost. Because that is what Joss Whedon does.

 

[Wildcard]

^ Unfortunate but most likely true. I agree, though, I'd like for the Hulk to work consistently as a member of the team instead of being just a loose cannon everybody is worried about erupting & doing damage.

At this point Hulk as a hero should be fully established with no real middle ground. We should be past the "possible meltdown" thing with Banner / Hulk unless they're gearing for Mindless Hulk, in which case I'd understand.

All in all, it'd just be really nice to get another Hulk movie that can blow us away like the latest entries in the MCU have.

 

[CoherentChaos]

If Scarlet Witch is indeed screwing with everyone, then it probably won't be as rehashed as we're fearing. In fact, it seems like the entire team will be going to a dark place and the second act or so will have us see them at their lowest points. Bruce's lowest point is losing control, so it's only natural for this mind trip to lead to a Hulk rampage.

Whether this makes him a loose canon again and destroys everything that was established in A1, who knows? I'd say Tony awakening a genocidal AI is much worse than Hulk losing his **** briefly, especially if the only reason that Hulk is going monster mode again is because of that genocidal AI.

If anything, the question to be asked with the Hulk after this, may be dangers of the Hulk being used as a weapon, by either Bruce or an outside force. Maybe we can get an arc about Coulson's rebuilding of SHIELD, requesting Bruce to be their ace in the hole in exchange for scientific resources? Sort of be an adaptation of the Indestructible Hulk run? Still not sure about MCU Bruce being desperate enough yet, to work for SHIELD, but hey, like I said adaptation, and who knows what's possible at this point?

 

[gildedmuse]

I would love if they could go the Indestructible Hulk route, as if gives the Hulk more of a purpose than being the Movie Monster awkwardly forced into the Superhero Genre. Also, if Banner could focus his energy in that direction than maybe they could find a way to spare his and Tony's relationship?

I mean, I adored the whole 'science bros' aspect of A1. I went in totally not expecting it - I mean, seeing all the Avengers interact is obviously part of the draw of the film, but based on the comics you expect Tony & Steve, Steve & Clint, Clint & Natasha... - but then those two characters just seemed to click. They are two characters you come away from the movie thinking, yes, they would definitely hanging out and live in a tower/mansion/whatever together to fight crime. But then AoU looks totally poised to take and rip it to shreds.

It's frustrating not in a real way but just like, "arg! Mark Ruffalo and RDJ have such good chemistry and their friendship makes such sense why would you give that to us for one film and take it away!" sort of way.

With Civil War coming up it would be nice if they could find a way to keep Banner on Earth with a positive use for the Hulk and possibly spare on relationship between teammates.

 

[terry78]

Well, the mere fact that Stark created a suit specifically to counter Banner already says something about him.

 

[Loki882]

Yeah he's smart and has common sense, because that's the pragmatic thing to do.

 

[terry78]

Yeah, that's the intelligent way to think about it. But to the Hulk persona it's basically saying that he doesn't trust him and plans to hurt him. That's how it's always been in the books, he has a very black and white mindset. Either you're 100% his friend or you're not.

 

[CoherentChaos]

Honestly, I can see Bruce understanding the precaution. He may be a little disappointed that Tony kept it a secret from him (unless that's not what's happening, and Bruce even helped design it, which in that case, this entire point is moot), but probably wouldn't hold it too much against him, especially in retrospect that Scarlet Witch was able to mess with him and start him on a rampage.

If there's one thing Bruce hates more than being treated like a weapon/monster, it's the idea of hurting innocents. If the Hulkbuster armor saves just one civilian from the mind wrecked Hulk, then he'd probably excuse Tony for it.

Hulk of course, wouldn't really understand, and would feel betrayed no matter how Bruce feels on the matter. And if there's something Bruce may hate Tony for, is the same reason why everyone else is hating on Tony. For the Ultron debacle. All in all, I too hope the science bros can indeed reconcile at least a little bit after AoU.

 

[DrCosmic]

Yeah, that's the intelligent way to think about it. But to the Hulk persona it's basically saying that he doesn't trust him and plans to hurt him. That's how it's always been in the books, he has a very black and white mindset. Either you're 100% his friend or you're not.

And Tony Stark is not 100% anyone's friend. That'd be unintelligent. #NoSarcasm

 

[Doc Samson]

Honestly, I can see Bruce understanding the precaution. He may be a little disappointed that Tony kept it a secret from him (unless that's not what's happening, and Bruce even helped design it, which in that case, this entire point is moot), but probably wouldn't hold it too much against him, especially in retrospect that Scarlet Witch was able to mess with him and start him on a rampage.

I'd love it if Banner inadvertently helps build the Hulkbuster without even realizing it. It seems like a Stark thing to do, particularly this MCU interpretation. I mean, he went into the whole Avengers thing feeling sketchy and doing his own "investigative" work to begin with.

Now, he's hanging out with Banner, who he respects of course, but he's also seen how easily Loki could manipulate the situation and cause an uncontrollable rampage. Between the emergence of Ultron and finding out about the suit, Banner would have his own reservations too. And we saw how much Natasha drew the ire of the Hulk because of Banner's reservations, this would be even more legitimate...

 

[Dark Raven]

I hope Hulk speaks more in Avengers 2. After GOTG where we have a talking raccoon, it can't be that Hulk still only says barely more than Groot because audiences won't accept a green talking monster.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

I agree. Ge doesnt have to speak a lot but if he does speak whatever he says needs to be important. I really want a "strongest one there is" line.

 

[Wildcard]

I want him to actually talk. We've gotten three movies of him having lines here & there. It's time to move on to the Hulk being a talking character, not just saying three lines in every movie.

It's not enough anymore.