Wayne Kramer: Part Two - Running Scared, Evil Seek, and Beyond
Written by Scott Collura
Tuesday, 06 June 2006
18:25:48
We continue our chat with writer-director Wayne Kramer as his film Running Scared hits DVD today. Click here to read the first part of the interview, and when you’re done, click here for your chance to win a copy of the DVD from Now Playing.
Now Playing: Can you talk a little bit about the fairy tale aspect of the film, Wayne? Did you envision it as being sort of a modern fairy tale from the start?
Wayne Kramer: I think it was there subconsciously while I was writing it and then in the early stages of prep - Usually what I do is I’ll break down my scripts and I’ll storyboard them myself. And I’ll also start engaging in talks with the production designer and the cinematographer and costume designer. And I just started to realize - It just felt to me, what I had, was a Grimm’s fairy tale template, in that it’s a little boy who’s on the run, or lost in the dark woods. But the dark woods is this sort of urban environment; the city and all these freakish characters that he encounters through the night just felt like they were out of a Grimm’s fairy tale. When he bumps into this sort of sadistic, over the top pimp, it’s like the Mad Hatter. Some of the criticisms about that guy was like he was a joke. Well, that’s exactly what the point was. It was like a clueless white guy who’s acting the way he thinks a pimp acts. Or, the kid gets abducted by the pedophiles and taken to that apartment, which is like the Hansel and Gretel house; and that couple, we depict them as being like witch Nosferatu-like figures, from the kid’s point of view, in the bathroom. And I always saw the boy himself as like a little Pinocchio kid who’s trying to get home and become a real boy. And he covets the house next door, the family, where he sees his friend lives, because he feels like that kid gets treated like a real kid.
NP: Right.
WK: And so there’s all these sort of things that became clear to me, like the hooker who takes the little boy under his wing. She’s like the blue fairy. She’s a force of goodness. The one thing I wanted to do was make sure that even if audiences never picked up on that, it wouldn’t affect their enjoyment of the film. They would just see it as a sort of adrenaline filled mob thriller. But, if you do; if you are looking deeper there’s a lot of little references, jokes buried in there and touches, even from the kid having the red shoes. A little bit of The Wizard of Oz thing. There’s a lot of detail in the production design where we were always conscious of that theme. A lot of names - the ice cream café is called the Cheshire Café and the one hotel where they’re waiting for the pimp to come out is called the Royal Towers; all these things. If you go back through the movie, you can have a good time thinking it out and see that it was a conscious effort on our part to just have it there on the periphery.
NP: And the kid even kind of looks like a Pinocchio.
WK: Yeah. He’s a very haunted kid. I mean when you go back and read those Grimm’s fairy tales, they’re very scary. A lot of them talk about subtle child abuse. Not even subtle; I mean I think Hansel and Gretel was a Grimm’s fairy tale. I’m not quite sure sometimes which are Grimm’s and which aren’t. But you know the wicked witch who wants to eat these kids? And they end up shoving her in an oven?
NP: Yeah. It’s horrendous.
WK: I mean all that is like really creepy stuff; following bread crumbs through the forest, or even if you go back to like Sleeping Beauty and “Mirror, mirror on the wall.” And sending the woodsman out to kill the - was it Snow White? I mean they really talk - you don’t think of these classic children’s fairy tales as taking place in the world of light.
NP: They’ve all been sanitized by Disney now.
WK: Yeah, but even the Disney version of Snow White freaks kids out… So, I just felt that was interesting. And in a way, The Cooler was also played for a lot of magic realism, kind of a Las Vegas fairy tale, in a way. And I never thought consciously to connect the two, but when I’ve spoken to some journalists about it, I see that there are - both films have subtle fairy tale imagery going through them.
NP: With the film hitting disc, are you actively trying to promote it?
WK: The Cooler actually didn’t do much better than Running Scared in movie theaters. I think it only did about $8 million. And so the real audience discovered that film on DVD; I think just in DVD rentals alone it did more than $50 million. So, it was a real anomaly compared to its theatrical. I always thought that Running Scared would do a lot more than The Cooler since it was more the action genre. I mean The Cooler was positioned as an art film. I am hoping audiences find the film. I mean a lot of people are predicting it to be like a cult action hit, and I hope so. I would be lying if I said I was brutally disappointed that people didn’t turn up and support it, and just support this genre of film, which is the R-rated action thriller which has been gone for a long time and is not likely to come back any time soon.
NP: If no one goes to see them…
WK: I mean that’s the thing; people complain all the time about PG-13 and it’s watered down and all that. And they get a movie that is a throwback to the kind of movies that I remember seeing in the ’70s and ’80s and nobody turns up. And I felt I did my part; I felt I gave them something educating and different and edgy and all that. So, I do hope they discover it on DVD and I mean I often am just as guilty where I’ll bypass a film because maybe I haven’t heard enough about it, or it maybe seems out of the genre of something I really like. But I’ll just buy it on DVD and I’ll be like stunned at how something was really good that I overlooked.
NP: There’s an audio commentary on the DVD. Is that something you enjoy doing?
WK: I actually enjoyed doing it, although sometimes you question whether you want audiences to discover things for themselves without being sort of coached along. But, I do feel a responsibility to younger audiences who want to learn about how you did something, to share with them the techniques or the thought processes you had about the film. Because somebody like me, before I was making films or when I was younger - a slightly older teenager, would’ve loved that stuff. I think some filmmakers want to keep all their magic behind the curtain, which is pretentious in the first place, because you can find out about it anywhere, anyway today. I think they’re trying to protect - sort of create a mystique, or take the David Lynch approach which is, “Well, you figure it out.” I do think a film should have a point of view. And I do think the director should know what he’s talking about and should be clear about what he’s trying to communicate. And so I think the commentaries are really helpful to people who are interested in the film, or want to go deeper into the film and what the filmmaker was thinking.
NP: If done right, DVDs can serve as a mini-film school - if you pick the right ones and listen to the right commentaries. You can really learn a lot.
WK: Absolutely! Essentially my film school was watching films, but that was just watching the film. And today, if you can hear the director take you through the film - and I’m always watching a film and going, “Well, how did he execute that shot?” - and hear the director say, “Well, we were on a Technocrane, or this is Steadicam and then we got pulled through the ceiling.” Those are great things for a filmmaker to learn and go, “Wow! You can do it that way?” Or, talking about some of the subtexts or talking about the lighting. I don’t have time to listen to a lot of DVD commentaries, but when a movie is - when I’ve been a fan of a movie, I will certainly listen to the commentary and want to hear the director’s point of view on that.
NP: And some are misses. Some are great; some aren’t so interesting.
WK: I never really thought about it, commentaries been rated by people. But I noticed the other day, somebody created a website just to rate DVD commentaries.
NP: That’s a good idea, actually.
WK: Running Scared was a very tough commentary to do because the movie moves so fast. And I wasn’t expecting it; so, as soon as I’m sitting down to talk about - like I wanted to talk a little bit about what the thought processes were behind what an actor was doing; or, I wanted to talk about how we executed that particular camera move; or, the controversy of a particular scene, the next thing I know the scene’s over and it’s on to something else. So, I think what audiences will find when they listen to my commentary is I’m speaking like 100 miles an hour, for two hours. I actually did it the Monday after the movie opened, so I was in a really good state of mind.
NP: Is that really when you did it?
WK: That is when I did it. I’m not somebody who’s too deeply affected by what happens. I mean obviously I’m bummed out about it, but I believe in my film and that’s not going to stop me from going in and being enthusiastic about it.
NP: Did you talk about that at all, the opening?
WK: I don’t think I addressed the box office as much as I addressed where I felt people had talked about certain points about the film and felt like this didn’t ring true, or this didn’t ring true. And it was me trying to justify it. I know the ending gets talked about a lot. And I tried to address that on the commentary track why I thought the ending should’ve been the ending that I had. And I think for fans of the movie, or fans of the movie but people who don’t like the ending, I think it’s interesting to at least hear it from the horse’s mouth.
NP: A lot of times they do the commentaries before the movie’s even out.
WK: Typically that is the case, ‘cause they want to get the filmmaker while it’s all fresh in his head. Yeah. I mean the commentaries are - The Cooler was weird because it was I think like a year on the festival circuit before it even opened, so we had done the commentaries and all that stuff. We didn’t do it on this one, but we did an isolated score on The Cooler. For two reasons. On The Cooler I wasn’t happy with the CD release. I didn’t feel they included enough of the score tracks and some of the good score tracks from the release. But on the soundtrack for Running Scared we really got a healthy 72-minute long score CD, which maybe about only 20 minutes didn’t make it onto the CD. So I felt like the CD really did represent the best part of the score, whereas it didn’t on The Cooler. And then also, I guess the more you put on the DVD, it sort of lowers the bit rate on the movie. And so I really wanted the movie to look good.
NP: And then it becomes a money issue if New Line has to go to a two-disc set.
WK: Yeah. I mean, it’s got a commentary. They cut together a documentary. It’s about 20 minutes long and I thought it was pretty good. It wasn’t your typical sort of puff piece. It actually - they interviewed me and a couple of cast members, and I do talk about like particular camera moves and things. I thought it was quite informative, actually. And I think fans of the movie will kind of dig that. I haven’t seen them, yet, but they’ve got two storyboard comparisons for both the action sequences; the hotel shootout and the ice rink. And I drew those storyboards myself.
NP: That’s pretty rare, isn’t it?
WK: Whether you like the art or not, you can at least see that this is the thought process that went into crafting those sequences.
NP: That’s rare, though, isn’t it, for the filmmaker himself to do his own storyboards?
WK: Yeah. It is rare. I like to do it because there’s an immediacy to it which is I’m coming up with the shots. I’m not handing a script over to storyboard artists and having them direct the movie for me. And my drawings aren’t like on the level of a great artist, but I think people can see them clear enough to know that’s a guy walking and he’s coming through a door and he’s doing this and he’s doing that.
NP: I never really understood that, why directors or filmmakers would have other people storyboard them.
WK: I think probably the biggest reason is it takes an enormous amount of time to do it. And I do feel a filmmaker should do it that way. I mean even if he uses stick figures. I do feel the initial shots should come from his head and not the other way around, which you’ll be surprised how often that happens.
NP: So, it’s the storyboard artist who’s actually composing the shot?
WK: Yeah. I can name you so many big directors who get the big studio gigs and when I talk to the storyboard artists who work with them, they say, “Hey! They give me a script and I come back with a storyboard.” And the director might say, “Well, I don’t like that or do this or do that.” But I’d say 85-percent of those shots are coming from storyboard artists.
NP: Wow! That’s depressing.
WK: I’m not saying that this is all directors, because I know Tony Scott draws his own boards. And I can’t imagine David Fincher letting storyboard artists dictate shots to him, but it takes a lot of time to sit down and break your movie down. In terms of the old school, Hitchcock kind of craft of what my camera’s going to do exactly in this moment; and what it’s going to cut to; and what it’s gonna transition to - I know so many directors who just turn up on the day and lock the scene right then and there. And if they come up with an inspired idea, they’re **** out of luck because they can’t get a Technocrane or they can’t get this or they can’t get that. For me, it takes about four to five months to break that script down into shots. And so I’m not some director who’s probably gonna be able to do two movies back-to-back. And I write, as well. So, I need to find time to write those new screenplays.
NP: Speaking of which, what are you working on now?
WK: I’m going to start a movie in September that I wrote and I’ll be directing for the Weinstein Co. called Evil Seek. And it’s basically every 1000 years in hell, they elect a new Satan, so the reigning Satan has to come down to Earth, take over the body of a mortal and find his successor, the most evil person alive. And he wakes up in the body of an FBI profiler working a terrible serial killing case in LA. And it’s kind of like Seven meets Heaven Can Wait. And sort of like Satan is the one moral guy in this film. And he has inherited a disgruntled ex-wife, a 15-year-old daughter who’s becoming all promiscuous, a lesbian partner. And he’s got no powers, just a nose for evil. And it turns out that when he starts investigating these bizarre killings, it looks like the killer’s trying to summon the devil, so it’s kind of an interesting thing that’s about to happen.
NP: What genre does it fall into?
WK: It’s basically a supernatural thriller. There is humor in it and I think it’s great to write a film about finding the ultimate evil, because you can comment on everything that’s happening politically today, as well. But it’s also very disturbing and freakish. It’s definitely one that’s gonna challenge the MPAA, I’ll tell you that. Thomas Jane is starring. Thomas is a great actor. That’s another movie that came out and nobody saw which was fantastic - Stander. Thomas did a really like ’70s exploitation kind of film where he played a South African bank robber.
NP: And then what are you doing beyond Evil Seek?
WK: I have a couple of projects that I’ve written set-up around town. One of them is The Sleeping Detective which is at New Line, about a narcoleptic private eye. It’s kind of a Chinatown - a guy like Jake Gittes who is falling asleep all the time, at the worst possible times. Probably I’m working also on an immigration drama that’s gonna be a very different film, which is sort of like a passion project for me. And I’ve been researching it for a bunch of years, but I’m just trying to find the time to finish the script.
NP: You jump around in genres.
WK: I might jump around in genres, but I think when people see my films the tones are very similar. They’re very provocative, or they’re not afraid - there’s strong sexuality in them, strong violence. I’m not afraid to mix up a little bit of the genre. A lot of people seem to remember The Cooler as being quite comedic. But, that was really more of a character drama. I do think it’s important actually for a filmmaker to brand themselves. And when people see my films, I do want them to go, “Okay. This is a Wayne Kramer film and we know it’s gonna be a bit in your face, or it’s not gonna be a smooth ride. We’re gonna kind of be carrying our seats at times.” And I don’t think I’m the kind of guy who’s gonna go and do an out and out comedy, or family movies or stuff like that. I’m very much more into intense dramas, thrillers. Evil Seek will be the first time I’ve done something on a supernatural level.
NP: But it sounds like you might fit some humor into that too.
WK: Yeah. There’s definitely a lot of dark humor in the script, even though at times it’ll be absolutely terrifying and freakish. And I don’t know - there’s definitely enough fairy tale aspects to it, but there’s a lot of twists and turns. I think most of the films that I’ve done feature certain sort of turnarounds in the storyline and I do think fans of the horror genre are going to have a fun time with this one.
NP: Well, cool. Thanks very much, Wayne.
WK: Thank you.
Click here to read the first part of our talk with Wayne Kramer. And don’t forget to click here for your chance to win a copy of the Running Scared DVD from Now Playing.
If he works for that money he's getting, more power to him.
SwordOfMorningSuper Moderator
