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Sequels Sam Raimi talks Spider-Man 4

the incredible hulk,iron-man,the dark knight, all outstanding movies!!! they have everything you want in a serious comic book movie. spidey is for the kids & that's the path they have taken for the character. i understand the whole pg-13 thing but,don't treat the fans that love and grew up with this character like idiots!!!

honestly,imo,if they didn't screw up s-m3 part 4 would be out summer 09.sony or marvel don't know what to do now.a very profitable character with the best stories in comic history,their stuck on stupid on what to do next.damn how do you screw up the entire symbiote saga???
 
yeah we should have gotten Venom in SM4 for 2009... then they could have done 5/6 back to back 2012/2013. But SM3 basically crammed two movies into one. And now we have to cut the franchise short by one film.
 
the incredible hulk,iron-man,the dark knight, all outstanding movies!!! they have everything you want in a serious comic book movie. spidey is for the kids & that's the path they have taken for the character. i understand the whole pg-13 thing but,don't treat the fans that love and grew up with this character like idiots!!!

honestly,imo,if they didn't screw up s-m3 part 4 would be out summer 09.sony or marvel don't know what to do now.a very profitable character with the best stories in comic history,their stuck on stupid on what to do next.damn how do you screw up the entire symbiote saga???
Is that a serious question?
 
yeah we should have gotten Venom in SM4 for 2009... then they could have done 5/6 back to back 2012/2013. But SM3 basically crammed two movies into one. And now we have to cut the franchise short by one film.

i just wanted the origin of the symbiote & peter dealing with it's power.who ever the villian is & the eddie brock story. then s-m4 peter get's rid of the symbiote,we finally get venom. no one would even be talking about T.D.K,TRUST ME!!!! tdk would still be great but,spidey would rule!!
 
Is that a serious question?

dude, when i saw that old hag Laura ziskin laughing when she said "we didn't want to go into the whole origin of the symbiote thing" i wanted to execute her! then we see her have all the comics spread out with eddie brock/venom for reference,she says "topher grace came to mind right away" i don't wish death on anybody but!!!!
 
The style in which Sam & The Franchise has created, as far as story telling, is well establish. I don't see anything changing.... even with Vandy at the helm.
 
smoothbody, you do realise that these Spidey films aren't mainly for kids, right? Fans always have and always will love this franchise, even if some fans didn't like (I loved it) the 3rd one. Stop saying it's for kids.

Also, Whatever happened to people praising Sam? I'm still praising him.
 
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SM1 and SM2 were just fine in balancing the line between too kiddy and too serious and they did a good job. SM3 was too kiddy and you have to admit that. All of his fans were damn kids and we had way too many lame kid shots. Couple that with a pretty dilute storyline so that a 10 year old could follow it with no substance, cheesy effects, and some lame dialogue. The dialogue was horrendous and if you want proof watch every scene with Harry and MJ together. Even the promo's for this movie was "Guess who we get to see...VENOMZZZZZZ!" And they were playing to the kid audience. Even Peter Parker when he went bad made Bill Gates look like a badass by comparison.
 
I think you are misinterpreting what I am saying here. When Sony decides to negotiate with Kirsten, they will make an offer, than state firmly, you are either in or out... point blank. Sony will not play this game will her like last time. Amy Pasca made it perfectly clear in 2005, her displeasure with Kirsten then.... she is not going to allow the same situation to repeat itself. Sony is sending out subtle messages about limiting her role in these films or writing her out all together. They will move own to what ever contingency plan they have laid out and this could be one reason why Sam is not sure about Kirsten's status with the franchise. It is not a hollywood game this time and Kirsten and her agent best recognize it.

Sony may tell her that, but that doesn't mean she won't do it. Look what happened to Howard. We don't know why he was booted, but obviously he was given a bottom line, didn't listen, and got the boot. Just because Sony says don't play the public game doesn't mean she won't. Plus, she has more pull than oh say Howard or Holmes cause MJ was a clear #2 character in this series, and more important to the series than either Rhodey in IM or Rachel in BB.

yeah we should have gotten Venom in SM4 for 2009... then they could have done 5/6 back to back 2012/2013. But SM3 basically crammed two movies into one. And now we have to cut the franchise short by one film.

I say Venom in one movie was fine. Venom is boring for a whole movie, but also I think Venom is boring as a whole. Look at the Alien Costume saga in the TAS. Venom is only Venom in one part, but it works. Venom works best on film in that way IMO. Otherwise, the movie becomes a glorified stalker flick :o

Fans are too in love with this back-to-back film idea. TDK took a two movie idea, and made one fantastic movie. We can have self-contained movies where a lot happens.
 
Well... apparently we are getting 4/5 back to back although nothing is certain... so the fans appear to be getting their wish. I am not the biggest Venom fan either... but here is what they did... they gave us the symbiote AND the conclusion of the Goblin story in one film... that was a mistake... period. They completely out did themselves... but all of this is old news that I am tired of talking about. Point is we can't go back to the symbiote... it would be like rebooting the Hulk... even if it's done well there is already a bad rep out there. THat's why the Venom movie, if it happens, will flop IMO. I just hope we get a decent fourth and fifth installment.
 
Okay, doing the end of the goblin saga AND the symbiote in one film was not the best idea. That we can agree on. But, this sense that Venom must be two films I think is wrong.
 
I didn't say two films myself... one film is enough for Venom. It could have been exactly what SM3 was as far as I am concerned without having Harry Osborn in there... giving those scenes to Brock.
 
Wasn't completely singling you out. I see why didn't they do 2 movies for Venom posts all the time, and I just don't agree it has to be done that way.

Fanboys love the idea of filming back-to-back too much, and 3 year gaps as well.
 
wait a minute when was venom in a movie? i think some people misunderstand i wanted to see more of the symbiote costume in s-m3.then in part 4 we see venom..by the way that wasn't venom imo...

spider-manhero if s-m3 was so good why is part 4 not in preproduction? oh i'll tell you,because they screwed up so major that they have no idea where to go!!! they butchered maybe the best storyline in spidey history & it will take years to recover from that!!!
 
The style in which Sam & The Franchise has created, as far as story telling, is well establish. I don't see anything changing.... even with Vandy at the helm.

so then this franchise is screwed!!!
 
wait a minute when was venom in a movie? i think some people misunderstand i wanted to see more of the symbiote costume in s-m3.then in part 4 we see venom..by the way that wasn't venom imo...

spider-manhero if s-m3 was so good why is part 4 not in preproduction? oh i'll tell you,because they screwed up so major that they have no idea where to go!!! they butchered maybe the best storyline in spidey history & it will take years to recover from that!!!

Where to start.

I don't misunderstand the Venom two movie way. I just think it is not neccessary in the least. Venom works best being the 3rd act villain. See The Alien Costume Saga in TAS and his first story. Venom is a glorified stalker, and 2hrs of that is boring, I'm sorry.

Also, SM3 grossed 900+ mil. Quality has NOTHING to do with why SM4 took so long to get started. If you believe that, you don't understand the business much. $$$ talks in Hollywood. Bad movies get sequels all the time (and I like SM3 personally, but I'll argue your perspective for the time being). If movies didn't get sequels based on quality, a ton of movies would never get sequels. The reason SM4 took this long to get started was that Sony had NO ONE under contract for it. They had to resign a lot of people (and still are) or had to recast the whole thing from scratch. That takes time. Has nothing to do with perceived quality.
 
Where to start.

I don't misunderstand the Venom two movie way. I just think it is not neccessary in the least. Venom works best being the 3rd act villain. See The Alien Costume Saga in TAS and his first story. Venom is a glorified stalker, and 2hrs of that is boring, I'm sorry.

Also, SM3 grossed 900+ mil. Quality has NOTHING to do with why SM4 took so long to get started. If you believe that, you don't understand the business much. $$$ talks in Hollywood. Bad movies get sequels all the time (and I like SM3 personally, but I'll argue your perspective for the time being). If movies didn't get sequels based on quality, a ton of movies would never get sequels. The reason SM4 took this long to get started was that Sony had NO ONE under contract for it. They had to resign a lot of people (and still are) or had to recast the whole thing from scratch. That takes time. Has nothing to do with perceived quality.

where to begin,so you don't think venom can hold his own being the only villian in a movie? huh,are you serious?? let's just say this,if they had real producers,real writers,& a halfway decent director,eddie brock/venom don't play 2nd fiddle to nobody!!! if you have sam & his dimwit brother writing scripts then you get s-m3 as it was!!

to your other point,yes $$$ talks.so your saying a movie that made almost 1 billion dollars "world wide gross,thank you" still doesn't have a script? up intill a few weeks ago was uncertain if they wanted raimi or maguire back!! oh by the way how's that script coming?because at one point it was done,then it wasn't! sounds like a franchise that made a billion,doesn't it!! so much for your quality reasoning.

oh wait,you said sony had to resign or recast?why would you recast a movie that grossed 900 million? maybe because it was terrible!
 
Sony may tell her that, but that doesn't mean she won't do it. Look what happened to Howard. We don't know why he was booted, but obviously he was given a bottom line, didn't listen, and got the boot. Just because Sony says don't play the public game doesn't mean she won't. Plus, she has more pull than oh say Howard or Holmes cause MJ was a clear #2 character in this series, and more important to the series than either Rhodey in IM or Rachel in BB.

Spider-Fan, I’m not saying what she will or won’t do. All I’m saying is Sony and Amy is not going for it. Kirsten is going to have to decide, carefully, what coarse of action to take. She is flirting with being phase out of the next trilogy… if you want to call it that. Bottom-line, what ever Sony dictates, will happen regardless of Kirsten decision. She either will play ball as directed by Sony or she’s phased out. Either way you can bet Sony and the franchise will continue on.


this sense that Venom must be two films I think is wrong.

I didn't say two films myself... one film is enough for Venom.

As far as Venom playing out over two films… I deem that very unnecessary as well. However, IMO, I do believe that Eddie Brock(Sr.) should have been introduced & re-invented; and character should have played out over two films. Eddie Brock’s character is very shallow, lacks foundation, and really should have never existed. The Comics, writers, whoever, years ago missed the perfect person to have played the host for the Symbiote that led to Venom. Hence why Eddie Brock character is so hollow and why the writers have the Symbiote jumping around on many hosts. They don’t know what to do with it.

But back to my point… Eddie(Sr.) should have been re-invented, than given the Connors treatment over a number of films so the audience can get the opportunity to know the character, empathize with his tragedy and anger, and better understand his plight when he becomes Venom. IMO, that’s how the character should have been developed… but hey that’s just me.


so then this franchise is screwed!!!

Smoothbody, to answer your question… no, the franchise is not screwed; because they will continue to make huge profits off the title character. However, there is not doubt in my mind that overall, the audience, viewers, or paying movie goers are screwed.

Look, the ability and style of tell stories has changed, developed, and mutated over the years to a new artistic form. And with the advent of new technologies, writers now can bring some of their wildest imagination to life on the big screen. This is the reason we are so awe struck with films like The Matrix(at the time), 300, Sin City, LOTR, etc. Sam is still telling stories with his patent 1980’s style. The biggest reason why Batman succeeded and Superman has not, both being a Warner/D.C. product… is because Nolan understanding and ability to tap the pulse of this new age of imagination and realism. Re-inventing what was once old or original and making it anew or more modern. Singer has no understanding of this concept and rehashed the same old style, in a vastly different age.

If Sam can’t understand and grasp this new form of telling stories in this day and age, than his ability will suffer and the franchise will continue to deliver the same fluff that apparently, many of you are satisfied with… regardless of the writer or technology. Remember, Spider-Man 3 introduce the new Katana CGI Technology and the story was still mild at best. Vandy may have autonomy; it will be based off Raimi’s sense of direction he want the series to continue. So again, no the franchise is not screwed, but the fans are.
 
I dont think the fans are screwed, theres a good chance they are screwed, but i still think theres hope. Spider-man 2 was a superhero movie we havent seen before when that came out. It set the new standard in superhero movies. I do agree that Raimi has to adapt and not focus on the old ways to tell narratives. Even though studios interfere i do believe that the script will hold the key to where this franchise is heading.
 
Spider-Fan, I’m not saying what she will or won’t do. All I’m saying is Sony and Amy is not going for it. Kirsten is going to have to decide, carefully, what coarse of action to take. She is flirting with being phase out of the next trilogy… if you want to call it that. Bottom-line, what ever Sony dictates, will happen regardless of Kirsten decision. She either will play ball as directed by Sony or she’s phased out. Either way you can bet Sony and the franchise will continue on.






As far as Venom playing out over two films… I deem that very unnecessary as well. However, IMO, I do believe that Eddie Brock(Sr.) should have been introduced & re-invented; and character should have played out over two films. Eddie Brock’s character is very shallow, lacks foundation, and really should have never existed. The Comics, writers, whoever, years ago missed the perfect person to have played the host for the Symbiote that led to Venom. Hence why Eddie Brock character is so hollow and why the writers have the Symbiote jumping around on many hosts. They don’t know what to do with it.

But back to my point… Eddie(Sr.) should have been re-invented, than given the Connors treatment over a number of films so the audience can get the opportunity to know the character, empathize with his tragedy and anger, and better understand his plight when he becomes Venom. IMO, that’s how the character should have been developed… but hey that’s just me.




Smoothbody, to answer your question… no, the franchise is not screwed; because they will continue to make huge profits off the title character. However, there is not doubt in my mind that overall, the audience, viewers, or paying movie goers are screwed.

Look, the ability and style of tell stories has changed, developed, and mutated over the years to a new artistic form. And with the advent of new technologies, writers now can bring some of their wildest imagination to life on the big screen. This is the reason we are so awe struck with films like The Matrix(at the time), 300, Sin City, LOTR, etc. Sam is still telling stories with his patent 1980’s style. The biggest reason why Batman succeeded and Superman has not, both being a Warner/D.C. product… is because Nolan understanding and ability to tap the pulse of this new age of imagination and realism. Re-inventing what was once old or original and making it anew or more modern. Singer has no understanding of this concept and rehashed the same old style, in a vastly different age.

If Sam can’t understand and grasp this new form of telling stories in this day and age, than his ability will suffer and the franchise will continue to deliver the same fluff that apparently, many of you are satisfied with… regardless of the writer or technology. Remember, Spider-Man 3 introduce the new Katana CGI Technology and the story was still mild at best. Vandy may have autonomy; it will be based off Raimi’s sense of direction he want the series to continue. So again, no the franchise is not screwed, but the fans are.

This franchise is far from screwed. SM1 and SM2 were well done, and they just need to go back to what was working. SM3 was crammed cause they were unsure people were coming back, thus they had to wrap it up, and Arad got greedy with adding Venom to the mix. I agree Sony will inevitably dictate what happens to Dunst, but I do think she has more pull in this series than Holmes in BB or Howard in IM (especially cause Raimi wants her back).

We agree on Venom at least :up:

where to begin,so you don't think venom can hold his own being the only villian in a movie? huh,are you serious?? let's just say this,if they had real producers,real writers,& a halfway decent director,eddie brock/venom don't play 2nd fiddle to nobody!!! if you have sam & his dimwit brother writing scripts then you get s-m3 as it was!!

to your other point,yes $$$ talks.so your saying a movie that made almost 1 billion dollars "world wide gross,thank you" still doesn't have a script? up intill a few weeks ago was uncertain if they wanted raimi or maguire back!! oh by the way how's that script coming?because at one point it was done,then it wasn't! sounds like a franchise that made a billion,doesn't it!! so much for your quality reasoning.

oh wait,you said sony had to resign or recast?why would you recast a movie that grossed 900 million? maybe because it was terrible!

No, because it might be cheaper and more cost effective :whatever:

They decided to go the expensive route and bring EVERYONE back. Is that the actions of people that were not satisfied with the last movie? If they were truly upset, Raimi and co would be gone and a new cast and crew would be in, so epic fail on your part. They are so confident, they may shoot them back-to-back even. This is showing FAITH in the creative team and cast, not displeasure. Again, it has nothing to do with quality. Raimi and co have made them $$$, and obviously, they were happy with the money they got. Cause they rehired them.

As for Venom, Venom is a lame villain. You are obviously a Venom fan and won't agree with me here. But, he is a glorified stalker whom Peter is "scared" of, only reason he is at all "cool." He's really done nothing of significance to Peter ever, but be a stalker. At least the GG was an effective stalker in his day. Venom is just a nuisance. An entire movie of Venom randomly popping up is lame and stupid. He works best as a 3rd act villain. The symbiote story I feel can easily carry one whole movie, but a back-to-back movie will end like POTC: DMC and POTC: AWE, good first part (DMC) and uber lame second part (AWE). Also, even give Venom two movies. Raimi would have still made him a Peter doppleganger with Topher Grace in all likely hood, so does it matter he lasted a whole 15 minutes? I don't.
 
the incredible hulk,iron-man,the dark knight, all outstanding movies!!! they have everything you want in a serious comic book movie. spidey is for the kids & that's the path they have taken for the character. i understand the whole pg-13 thing but,don't treat the fans that love and grew up with this character like idiots!!!

Spider-Man cannot be given the same treatment as a Batman, Hulk or Iron Man movie. He's a completely different character who should be given a more family-friendly treatment. That doesn't mean they're treating us like idiots. And when you're talking about a far-fetched notion like an alien parasite masquerading as a cool set of tights, I think it was handled rather well.
 
Spider-Man cannot be given the same treatment as a Batman, Hulk or Iron Man movie. He's a completely different character who should be given a more family-friendly treatment. That doesn't mean they're treating us like idiots. And when you're talking about a far-fetched notion like an alien parasite masquerading as a cool set of tights, I think it was handled rather well.

i agree as far as,s-m can't be given the same treatment as those other characters. But,at the same time they had a chance to take the character to that level with the symbiote story line.they chose to have peter wearing eye liner & dancing around like an idiot that's their version of dark!! it's very upsetting & sad,imo!!!!
 
i agree as far as,s-m can't be given the same treatment as those other characters. But,at the same time they had a chance to take the character to that level with the symbiote story line.they chose to have peter wearing eye liner & dancing around like an idiot that's their version of dark!! it's very upsetting & sad,imo!!!!

Dude, you gotta remember - the symbiote amplifies the characteristics of it's host. Peter Parker is not dark - he's a dork. It also feeds off aggression. Therefore, you get an amplified dork who's prone to violence.
 

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