Sandman Most Pointless Villian in SM3?

[GarzaUK]

Venom was more pointless in SM3 than Sandman (and I'm a Venom fan). Sandman wasn't done right, wasn't given enough time, just like GG2 IMO. I wanted Harry to interact with his dead father more.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Sandman was FAR cooler than the Mummy, whose powers were about much more than Sand, anyway. And maybe that's just the point. Diehard fans simply were surprised to see him using a power that he didn't in the comics. But it isn't like it's not possible for him to utilize that power. And no one in my audience laughed. So, maybe you and the folks you went with are just unimaginative and closed minded..

dude i live in LA, were anything but close minded, we've seen it all. the whole theater was laughing at many parts that shouldn't of.. and guess what.. my theater experience was not the only one like that, read the review boards.. many have stated similar experiences.

How silly. Brock and Sandman's stories were clearly exlapined. And many of the Goblin and Ock's scenes were about them executing their grand schemes, of which Sandman- didn't have one. He wanted to save his daughter. That's it. And that was abundantly clear...

dude it doesnt take a rocket scientist to realise 1-on-1 scenes add more character development, neither marko or brock had enough.

He didn't have a change of heart. He simply regained himself. "I'm not a bad person- I've just had bad luck". And note- as Brock said- Sandman believed Spidey was PREVENTING him from savng his daughter. So Marko was mostly after Spidey to get him out of the way...

dude your stating the obvious, it wasnt believeable.. and was lame, if he thought spidey was always in his way, why didnt he just take his "speedy sand cloud and go far out of the city.. it would have taken all but a day to get far enough where spidey wouldnt show up.

Sandman and Ock were doing the same thing for different reasons. Ock wanted to continue an experiment. Marko wanted to save a life. And no- Ock wasn't out to kill Spidey. Ock didn't give a damn about Spidey unless he was in Ock's way...

guess what... thats the comics, all of spidey's villains start off with spidey getting in the way of there plans.. and them after him so they continue it.. same story as ock was with sandman..

So is The Master Planner- which is still credited as a great Ock story...

do you know why? because he friggin nearly defeated spider-man and the master planner was a mystery.. those 2 things alone make the story better, they weren't the same story, after all spidey left many a battles to go to his ailing aunt.

Who cares? It was an excellent story featuring a solo sandman, which is what you said didn't exist...

umm because it doesnt help with the movies at all..

Okay- if your only point here is finding a story that could be translated to film, it didn't happen with Ock or the Goblin either. There were some elements from the comics, but none were direct translations. ..

dude, Norman was ripped nearly 100% from the comics and animated series... he owned oscorp, felt peter was more of a son then his own, created his goblin formula, went insane, found out parkers identity (though in the comics/cartoon it was a much better way of it), towed spidey up on a cable ala AMZ #39 (it happened even in the film as a nod when the goblin and spidey traveled from the bridge to the abandoned building, goblin and peters love on a bridge, norman being impailed by his own glider.... hell his story was the most true (next to brock) as being ripped directly from the comics

ock had many a comic moments as well.. but like sandman they were pretty much just origin and ocasional nods. there will always be differences.. but you cant compare a story which couldnt be done in the spidey comics without it being changed ridiculously due to what other marvel characters were in the issues.

That story was garbage, and degenerated into nothing more than a King Kong rip-off.

o i know, but thats sort of the humor i found out of it, it was fun plain and simple.. and clearly the giant sand monster was a nod to. poor cheesey choice but the comic itself was fun

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Venom was more pointless in SM3 than Sandman (and I'm a Venom fan). Sandman wasn't done right, wasn't given enough time, just like GG2 IMO. I wanted Harry to interact with his dead father more.

actually i felt like harry was handled very well.. and he had 3 movies to develop... nothign was wrong with his story at all.. infact he was the strongest and best written villain in the film

 

[Sloth7d]

the spider-man goblin team up i thought was great, it added to there friendship and was also a nod to the comics when they actually did team up and why couldnt they make a 4? i for one would love to see the fourth movie open with a scene like this...

the screens black:
MJ in a laughing/flurtatious voice: "peter, whats the surprise? where are we?"

Peter- "just a second MJ, ok now, open your eyes"

the darkness opens to a very hight up shot of a panaramic view of NYC around sunset, and the camera pans out to show them at the very tip top of the empire state building

MJ- "peter oh my gosh, this is so beautiful, its like were completely free up here"

Peter (maskless in his spidey suit) get's down on one knee while MJ is taking in the sky line

MJ "peter..." she notices what hes about to do

Peter "MJ, will you marry me? i wanted to do this a while ago... i mean i tried but..."

MJ smiles and looks off at the sky line.. next thing you know, she jumps. Peter freaks out and dives down and catches her

peter- "mj are you crazy? why did you do tha.."

MJ kisses peter

MJ- "because your always there to catch me whenever i fall, tiger, of course i'll marry you"


that would be the most perfect purposal and very true to peter and MJ romance. the movie would end with the wedding..

Okay I can see that happening. But like I said, it was probably the whole Butler thing that turned me off to it. It was just dumb.

Butler:"Oh, by the way Harry. I saw your fathers wounds that night. He killed himself. Sorry for letting you think you friend is a murderer and dedicating your life to killing. K. bye."

That part almost ruined the movie for me. Though I still would have rathered Harry die fighting Peter like in the comics.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Okay I can see that happening. But like I said, it was probably the whole Butler thing that turned me off to it. It was just dumb.

Butler:"Oh, by the way Harry. I saw your fathers wounds that night. He killed himself. Sorry for letting you think you friend is a murderer and dedicating your life to killing. K. bye."

That part almost ruined the movie for me.

ya, i would have rather harry found blood or something on his fathers glider.. or some other proof... the butler was akward.. maybe if it was more brief.. but the butler probably didnt tell harry for the same reasons peter didnt. infact... the butler also didnt know peter was spidey till then...

 

[Sloth7d]

ya, i would have rather harry found blood or something on his fathers glider.. or some other proof... the butler was akward.. maybe if it was more brief.. but the butler probably didnt tell harry for the same reasons peter didnt. infact... the butler also didnt know peter was spidey till then...

Even if he didn't know who Spidey was it was still dumb. Why would you let someone go that far in his agenda without telling him a truth like that? He was declaring murder on someone who was innocent reguardless of identity.
And it actually seemed like Peter was trying to tell him from the beginning, but Harry kept brushing him off. And he definately got the words out when he saw how far Harry was willing to go.

 

[dark_b]

Venom was more pointless in SM3 than Sandman (and I'm a Venom fan). Sandman wasn't done right, wasn't given enough time, just like GG2 IMO. I wanted Harry to interact with his dead father more.

look i respect it but its jsut hat i dont get it. you had 2 movies thta was about harry. than you had again a lot of scenes about harry and at the end of the day ouy say that this was still not enough?

 

[Dragon]

dude i live in LA, were anything but close minded, we've seen it all. the whole theater was laughing at many parts that shouldn't of.. and guess what.. my theater experience was not the only one like that, read the review boards.. many have stated similar experiences.

Dude.. The fact that you loop the entire populace of LA into your mindset proves that you're close-minded. And regardless what you and others have experienced, you're still in the minority. Most people thought this film worked.

dude it doesnt take a rocket scientist to realise 1-on-1 scenes add more character development, neither marko or brock had enough.

1-on-1 scenes can also be tedious and explain what's already clear. What was supposed to happen in these 1-on-1 scenes?

dude your stating the obvious, it wasnt believeable.. and was lame, if he thought spidey was always in his way, why didnt he just take his "speedy sand cloud and go far out of the city.. it would have taken all but a day to get far enough where spidey wouldnt show up.

He didn't need to "go far out of the city" or did you miss the fact that Peter was listening to the scanner for many days with no success of finding him? And perhaps he didn't want to be far from his daughter. And perhaps the "speedy sand cloud couldn't take him that far. See? these things are easy when you think just a little.

guess what... thats the comics, all of spidey's villains start off with spidey getting in the way of there plans.. and them after him so they continue it.. same story as ock was with sandman..

Nope. The Goblin went after Spidey. The Jackal went after Spidey. VENOM went after Spidey.

do you know why? because he friggin nearly defeated spider-man and the master planner was a mystery.. those 2 things alone make the story better, they weren't the same story, after all spidey left many a battles to go to his ailing aunt.

Actually, no he didn't leave "many" battles to go to May. And Sandman nearly defeated Spidey most of the times they fought. And- no Ock didn't nearly defeat Spidey in Master Planner. Spidey was pinned under the machinery by accident, not a plan of Ock's. And none of this changes the fact that there are clear parallels between ASM #18 and Master Planner.

umm because it doesnt help with the movies at all..

It showed a variety of reasons why Sandman is badass.

dude, Norman was ripped nearly 100% from the comics and animated series... he owned oscorp, felt peter was more of a son then his own, created his goblin formula, went insane, found out parkers identity (though in the comics/cartoon it was a much better way of it), towed spidey up on a cable ala AMZ #39 (it happened even in the film as a nod when the goblin and spidey traveled from the bridge to the abandoned building, goblin and peters love on a bridge, norman being impailed by his own glider.... hell his story was the most true (next to brock) as being ripped directly from the comics

That paragraph was a complete wasted read, since your challenge was actual stories that could be translated, not the character traits you listed above for Norman. If you're talking traits, Sandman was a petty thug whose molecules bonded with sand. He's a tough customer. That's about all there is.

ock had many a comic moments as well.. but like sandman they were pretty much just origin and ocasional nods. there will always be differences.. but you cant compare a story which couldnt be done in the spidey comics without it being changed ridiculously due to what other marvel characters were in the issues.

And since- AGAIN- no stories of Ock and the Goblin were directly translated, your point is moot. And BTW- ALL of the Goblin's stories pre-unmasking involved other characters. There were ALWAYS other heroes and/or villains.

 

[SuperFerret]

None of the villains were pointless, nor were any of them crucial to the success of the film. Sorry fanboys, but people are going to see the movie because it's SPIDER-MAN 3, not just because of Venom. (Who I don't see as having a huge mainstream following, most of the people I know who aren't into comics asked me why Spidey's dressed in black for this movie.)

 

[Mito88]

Exactly right.

Unfortunately these guys think a bad guy is someone who wears a gunny sack over their head and uses psychotropic drugs.

awww its ok, the movie will make alot of money....









oh and BB > S3

 

[The Kid]

None of the villains were pointless, nor were any of them crucial to the success of the film. Sorry fanboys, but people are going to see the movie because it's SPIDER-MAN 3, not just because of Venom. (Who I don't see as having a huge mainstream following, most of the people I know who aren't into comics asked me why Spidey's dressed in black for this movie.)

you venom haters are just ridiculous. I'm so tired of you. You guys were saying two years ago that it was impossible for him to be in the movies yet here we are. And you know why he's in there, shoe horned, but in there?

because he's one of spidey's most popular foes. Don't deny it. I can pull up statistics and evidence but I'm tired of doing that. Ignore the truth if you want to. It's your life.

 

[GarzaUK]

look i respect it but its jsut hat i dont get it. you had 2 movies thta was about harry. than you had again a lot of scenes about harry and at the end of the day ouy say that this was still not enough?

Ok maybe GG2 was given enough time, the thing is it wasn't used very well. I really don't get that memory loss thing. He could have easily got MJ to kiss him and ruin Parkers life without the memory loss. Wouldn't it have been better with Harry struggling with his inner demons (Harry vs Norman) in his head, the decision whether to kill Peter or not. I am more satisfied with GG2 than Sandman or Venom, I just think GG2's struggle could have been better.

 

[Sloth7d]

It was neccesary. If Goblin jr. still hadhis memories or was still functional as Goblin jr. he would have been crammed into too many of the Sandman battles and interrupted the flow of the movie. It was best to keep him at bay for one reason or another. Memory lost was the best reason IMO.

 

[rolston3492]

Venom doesn't have to be a villlian in this movie for the simbiote to be attatched to Peter. If I recall, the order goes First Peter, then Venom. Easily he could have been cut out and saved for later.

And no, Venom is not Peter's real arch enemy. That position is and always will be given to Green Goblin.

No, you are wrong only about the archenemy thing, everything else was good.

Venom basically is "Evil Spider-Man" Both have same abilities(cept for unlimited webbing) they are equally matched up.

goblin flies around throwing bombs, and what not, thats a laugh.

 

[rolston3492]

ASM #18- Spidey chickens out fighting Sandman out of fear of leaving May alone.
FF#61- Sandman using the suit developed by the wizard kicks the crap out of the FF.
Hulk #138- Sandman, wanting revenge on the Hulk for his hand being crystallized ends up turning Betty Ross into glass.
Marvel team-Up #1- Sandman fights off Spidey and the torch in order to spend Christmas with his mother.
PPSM#56-57- Sandman deals with questions of his identity both mentally and physically.

And Venom sure as hell doesn't have many good stories.

HAHAHAHA you are so dumb.

Thats like what 4 stories.

Venom:

Maximum Carnage (14-Part Series)

He got his own comic book series

Plus he's appeared in Spider-Man comics numerous times

Also appears in other Marvel Heroes comics

i cant even count how many stories he has but he sure as hell beats sandman

 

[Axl Van Sixx]

The complaint that everyone has about Spider-Man 3 is that it tried to cram too many disparate plot elements into one movie. For my money, if I could have trimmed one character from the film Sandman would be it. I was originally thinking that the character served the function of providing Spider-Man with a villain to fight while he's in the black suit - but New Goblin does that just fine. Sandman got in the movie because he's a favourite of Sam Raimi and Tobey Maguire, but I could have done without him.

Everybody knows that VENOM was the real villain that fans were looking forward to. When people list Spider-Man's greatest villains, it's always Green Goblin, Doc Ock, and Venom that top the list. Of the two new villains, it's Sandman that should have taken a back seat to Venom, but instead it was the other way around. That was disappointing.

I also thought it was needless to have Flint Marko turn out to be the actual killer of Uncle Ben. I saw that in the trailers and assumed that it would prove to be a false lead or something....Peter would get caught up in his lust for revenge under the influence of the black suit, but would have found out that Sandman wasn't really the killer, and would have become aware of the effect the suit was having on his psyche. But no...they actually went through with it, and in the film continuity Sandman is now the killer of Uncle Ben. Not only does that cheapen the first movie's origin, but it also reeks of convenience for the writers, who want to tie every villain in personally with Peter.

Yet for all these complaints, I thought that Thomas Haden Church did an amazing job as Sandman. He took what I always saw as a boring character and made him fascinating and tragic. In the end, though, I'll always see Sandman as an interloper to the villain that should have dominated Spider-Man 3 - Venom.

 

[Dragon]

HAHAHAHA you are so dumb.

That's big talk coming from someone who clearly hasn't topped kindergarten.

Thats like what 4 stories.

Venom:

Maximum Carnage (14-Part Series)

He got his own comic book series

Plus he's appeared in Spider-Man comics numerous times

Also appears in other Marvel Heroes comics {/quote]

And they ALL SUCK. Those stories you mentioned are almost universally regarded as a joke. Particularly Maximum Carnage. Venom made many appearances and they're all the same. He's such a lame character infact that the writers have to essentially make Spidey comatose so that Venom can escape. The guy has two major weaknesses- sound and fire. Ya think Spidey could find a way to generate those?

i cant even count how many stories he has but he sure as hell beats sandman

The difference is that while Venom is a one trick pony- All of which were shown in Spidey 3 BTW- Sandman was part of some really cool stories that happened to involve his beaing on a team, and then there was the dreadful period when he was a "good guy". Sandman was a regular fixture in Marvel for more than 40 years. Venom lasted what? 15 before they wanted to kill him off?

 

[rolston3492]

That's big talk coming from someone who clearly hasn't topped kindergarten.

Thats like what 4 stories.

Venom:

Maximum Carnage (14-Part Series)

He got his own comic book series

Plus he's appeared in Spider-Man comics numerous times

Also appears in other Marvel Heroes comics {/quote]

And they ALL SUCK. Those stories you mentioned are almost universally regarded as a joke. Particularly Maximum Carnage. Venom made many appearances and they're all the same. He's such a lame character infact that the writers have to essentially make Spidey comatose so that Venom can escape. The guy has two major weaknesses- sound and fire. Ya think Spidey could find a way to generate those?



The difference is that while Venom is a one trick pony- All of which were shown in Spidey 3 BTW- Sandman was part of some really cool stories that happened to involve his beaing on a team, and then there was the dreadful period when he was a "good guy". Sandman was a regular fixture in Marvel for more than 40 years. Venom lasted what? 15 before they wanted to kill him off?

wow, look who's insulting me, someone who has posted on this site over 7,000 and you call me a loser. wow you have some issues

1. its a movie

2.i topped kindgarten like years and years ago

3. you really need to stop sitting at your computer all day and get a life

I never said Sandman in general sucked or Thomas Haden Church, I just said i didnt like him in spiderman 3?

THC did an amazing job acting, he just didnt need to be in there.

 

[Dragon]

wow, look who's insulting me, someone who has posted on this site over 7,000 and you call me a loser. wow you have some issues

1. its a movie

2.i topped kindgarten like years and years ago

3. you really need to stop sitting at your computer all day and get a life

I never said Sandman in general sucked or Thomas Haden Church, I just said i didnt like him in spiderman 3?

THC did an amazing job acting, he just didnt need to be in there.

Okay. We simply differ on this point.

 

[dark_b]

The complaint that everyone has about Spider-Man 3 is that it tried to cram too many disparate plot elements into one movie. For my money, if I could have trimmed one character from the film Sandman would be it. I was originally thinking that the character served the function of providing Spider-Man with a villain to fight while he's in the black suit - but New Goblin does that just fine. Sandman got in the movie because he's a favourite of Sam Raimi and Tobey Maguire, but I could have done without him.

Everybody knows that VENOM was the real villain that fans were looking forward to. When people list Spider-Man's greatest villains, it's always Green Goblin, Doc Ock, and Venom that top the list. Of the two new villains, it's Sandman that should have taken a back seat to Venom, but instead it was the other way around. That was disappointing.

I also thought it was needless to have Flint Marko turn out to be the actual killer of Uncle Ben. I saw that in the trailers and assumed that it would prove to be a false lead or something....Peter would get caught up in his lust for revenge under the influence of the black suit, but would have found out that Sandman wasn't really the killer, and would have become aware of the effect the suit was having on his psyche. But no...they actually went through with it, and in the film continuity Sandman is now the killer of Uncle Ben. Not only does that cheapen the first movie's origin, but it also reeks of convenience for the writers, who want to tie every villain in personally with Peter.

Yet for all these complaints, I thought that Thomas Haden Church did an amazing job as Sandman. He took what I always saw as a boring character and made him fascinating and tragic. In the end, though, I'll always see Sandman as an interloper to the villain that should have dominated Spider-Man 3 - Venom.

if spidey would not forgive sandman it would even more cheapen the movie .of course how it was played was extreme bad. sandman wants to kill everyone but at the end of the day he is the tradic guy.

 

[the a1ant]

The story should've only have Harry and Venom as villains, imo. Sandman (to me) was pointless, but a feast for the eyes. Of course, if Raimi didn't have to put Venom in, maybe Sandman's purpose would've been greater

 

[Havok83]

I thoguht they made him way too sympathetic of a villian. I didnt see him as a bad guy and felt for him the entire movie bc he did everythign out of love for his daughter. He wasnt malicious at all. I wish they hadnt have gone this route and made him more ruthless and sinister in his ways. He is a villian and they should have played up on that more. This movie lacked a strong villian. I couldnt completely hate Harry bc I understood where he was coming from with what happened with his father and Venom came in too late and wasnt really explored enough

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Okay. We simply differ on this point.

there appears to be alot of people differing with your point...

 

[spideyboy_1111]

sandman would of also worked better if for instance, like in the comics, you figured out he had a life and heart later... hell his story was pretty much vultures during the MK arch... Vulture was robbing people to save his grandson's life (he was sick) and that was revealed to us later... i think it would have made sandman a little more interesting to gradually feel for him, rather then have it all thrown out at us right away.

 

[SPider-T0rch]

i agree that it FEELS that sandman was just squished into the movie to please the fans but the character was not all THAT pointless.

i remember watching a few interviews on tv w/ sam raimi talking about sequels. he said that he'd have to put in villain/villains that would be obstacles to peter AND spider-man while they try to obtain some sort of balance in life. imo, the villains of s-m3 were villains to peter parker and to spider-man. we have the typical villains that spider-man would have to focus on. They're new goblin, sandman, and venom. but cut to the man behind the mask: peter parker

although he lives a normal life, peter still has "villains" even when he is not in costume and they turn out to be the same villains as spider-man but on different terms.

Harry Osborn(NG)- with him knowing that pete's spider-man, the guy who allegedly killed his father, he puts a strain on their friendship. He is peter's SOCIAL villain.

Flint Marko(Sandman)- peter believes his uncle's killer is dead but evidence finds that flint marko is his actual killer and is now on the loose.
He is peter's FAMILY villain

Eddie Brock, Jr.(venom)- new hot shot rookie photographer trying, by any means necessary, to win a permanent job at the daily bugle, newspaper that has paid peter for years without giving him a staff position. he is peter's FINANCIAL/JOB villain.

so sandman was more than just a villain put in for eye candy(though that was probably the intention). he was meant to "attack" spider-man and the guy behind the mask. though they probably could've used a different villain to take this place (probably shocker?) but since sandman was wanted in the film by fans, writers somehow found a way to get him in the movie to please the fans and to serve his purpose as an obstacle to peter.