The Dark Knight Rises Screenplay Contributions to Batman III

Doctor Jones

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Well, by next year we will most likely have an announcement of Batman III. I've had an idea to write an outline or a screenplay for the film. (I do this with all films I can't wait to see, It helps me get through the anticipation) What ideas do you have that can contribute to the characters, themes, the layering, the plot, etc. that can make a cohesive outline for me to start a screenplay. I really can't think of much. Here's the catagories:

Characters -

Plot-

Theme-

Symbolism-

Structure-

For the story, how should it start off? Should it take place where TDK left off or begin months down the line? How could one or the other make a better film or impact? How are the characters this time around? What can the new ones do and the old ones do? How will the new ones play into the stories? Their stories too. There are some unresolved subplots from TDK that can still come into play that can be fronted in this film. Like the note from Rachel.

Bruce questioning his methods of crime. Him breaking his one rule or for him thinking he killed Harvey. His regrets. Thinking of what The Joker said. Ramirez could play a bigger part. Some cops could too.

What adaptions can we bring into this film from the comics over the years? For the characters and the story, (i.e) In TDK, Joker shows in a different way that one bad day can drive a man insane, insetad of Gordon in "The Killing Joke" it's Harvey in TDK. The Long Halloween with the mob and the rise of the freaks. We could continue this. Think of The Joker's line "Maybe we can share one. You know they'll be doubling up the rate this city's inhabitants are losing their minds!"

If you could all help, you could fill in the catagories I listed or the things I adressed above. With this info, maybe by next year in the summer when they announce it, I'll be able to think of what can happen and form it into a screenplay. Ideas from you guys could possibly make us aware for what's in store later on and how Batman III could be like.
 
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You picked a good time to do this if Chris really is fishing for a good story, would it not be cool if you gave him inspration for part of his? I am not convinced he has no story, but rather perhaps he's leaving open the option to make it better or find something he/they have not thought of.

First thing you need to do is to not treat this as a sequel, but rather the third act in the origin story. Think of it as a large story broke down in to chunks for storytelling purposes such as Lord of the Rings or the first Star Wars trilogy. The first act was him becoming the Batman, second was Gotham reacting to the presence and actions of the Batman, the third needs to cap off his origin. He has to accept his role forever and become not only the Batman but the great detective, and of course Gotham always needing him with never ending villians and problems.

Second thing to not do, is to feel you have to tie up every loose end as long as it doesn't create plot holes. Some loose ends are best left to speculation or don't fill any need in the current story or sometimes close doors best left open for later so as to not weigh your story down.

What type of story are you thinking of? Crime drama, thriller, mystery, action? Depending on which one, you car draw from differnet inspiration like they did with Heat.
 
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You picked a good time to do this if Chris really is fishing for a good story, would it not be cool if you gave him inspration for part of his? I am not convinced he has no story, but rather perhaps he's leaving open the option to make it better or find something he/they have not thought of.

First thing you need to do is to not treat this as a sequel, but rather the third act in the origin story. Think of it as a large story broke down in to chunks for storytelling purposes such as Lord of the Rings or the first Star Wars trilogy. The first act was him becoming the Batman, second was Gothom reacting to the presence and actions of the Batman, the third needs to cap off his origin. He has to accept his role forever and become not only the Batman but the great detective, and of course Gothom always needing him with never ending villians and problems.

Second thing to not do, is to feel you have to tie up every loose end as long as it doesn't create plot holes. Some loose ends are best left to speculation or don't fill any need in the current story or sometimes close doors best left open for later so as to not weigh your story down.

What type of story are you thinking of? Crime drama, thriller, mystery, action? Depending on which one, you car draw from differnet inspiration like they did with Heat.

Very good points. I recently listened to a BOF podcast and they explained what they could want in a Batman 3. I would like to treat this as a different film and genre. BB and TDK were in the same continuity and time frame but both had different styles and tones and felt like two separtae films. BB was like an epic origin story and TDK was an urban crime drama. This film could be more suspenseful/mystery. And I don't think there is going to be one major villain. You can't do something like the Joker where he can take his place or have two villains team up and say, "Ok these guys can make of for the Joker." Batman inpried Joker to rise, Joker inspired Harvey to take the law into his own hands, and I want to continue that in the next cycle. The main villain is the rising of the freaks. Joker has inspired the "better class of criminal" in TDK to rise. How does the mob come into play. How do they respond?

I definately want to see Riddler in there. Catwoman too. She can in a way show Batman the irony of being in love in a way Rachel couldn't give him as a vigilante. Catwoman can be the opposite. She could be what he was looking for. He accepts his role as Batman, and therefore, can he accept this woman just like him? And I would like to pick up unresolved stuff from TDK, Rachel's letter is something I definately want to adress again. And Ramirez's role. And on the podcast, they suggested Sarah Essen as something for Gordon from Year One. It would be refreshing to see him deal with something else than Batman. Plus, how is Gordon and Batman's relationship? Batman is a man on the run. And their secret relationship could be even more fascinating but more complex. How does a man talk to someone that's wanted from his own workforce? The batsignal needs to be back. The batsignal can be symbolsim for Gotham accepting him and his role of justice to the city. That will be near the end of the film though. Though I'm still torn on bringing back the Joker. I know it's a long shot. But I need a problem that can make Gotham realize that they need Batman. I can't think of anyone else except the Joker. I'd still ike to see a Silence of the Lambs type of thing where Batman visits him in Arkham. Could cause alot of mindbending stuff there. Joker can still go on about Batman. Here's something I canme up with for Joker to say.

JOKER: Just remember, either way, you and I are looking through a piece of glass.
 
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I wouldn't worry about how to fit the villians in just yet, or what timeline for that matter...let it write itself depending on what you want to do for Bruce/Batman. What is the story you want to tell for Bruce/Batman since this is about them. You want to take them from where we last saw them to what point? After you have have what you want them to do and/or go through then you fill in the villians in the fabric of that story.

As far as your thoughts on the Joker and how that plays in to others consider this:

"This town deserves a better class of criminal... and I'm gonna give it to them"

"This town deserves a better class of criminal":
- Better than what they have with the mob, and by giving it to them he means ridding Gotham of the mob?
- A class of criminal who is motivated by more than just money?
- Deserves because the Gotham now has Batman and the criminals need to take it up a notch?
- Was he just reffering to his turning Batman and/or Dent in to the criminals?

"and I'm gonna give it to them":
- He Joker is gonna give any of the above to Gotham?
- He Joker is gonna give Gotham to the "better class"?
- Them as in someone he is handing Gotham to such as the "new" villians?
- Was Joker doing a job with/for a master planner and he is reffering to "them"?
- Was he the Joker the better class and by his example is giving it/him to them/Gotham?

Depending on the story you want to tell it could be one or multiple and you can go many ways with it.
 
I wouldn't worry about how to fit the villians in just yet, or what timeline for that matter...let it write itself depending on what you want to do for Bruce/Batman. What is the story you want to tell for Bruce/Batman since this is about them. You want to take them from where we last saw them to what point? After you have have what you want them to do and/or go through then you fill in the villians in the fabric of that story.

As far as your thoughts on the Joker and how that plays in to others consider this:

"This town deserves a better class of criminal... and I'm gonna give it to them"

"This town deserves a better class of criminal":
- Better than what they have with the mob, and by giving it to them he means ridding Gotham of the mob?
- A class of criminal who is motivated by more than just money?
- Deserves because the Gotham now has Batman and the criminals need to take it up a notch?
- Was he just reffering to his turning Batman and/or Dent in to the criminals?

"and I'm gonna give it to them":
- He Joker is gonna give any of the above to Gotham?
- He Joker is gonna give Gotham to the "better class"?
- Them as in someone he is handing Gotham to such as the "new" villians?
- Was Joker doing a job with/for a master planner and he is reffering to "them"?
- Was he the Joker the better class and by his example is giving it/him to them/Gotham?

Depending on the story you want to tell it could be one or multiple and you can go many ways with it.

Dude...everything you need to understand that line is in the actual line. It isn't that hard to understand. The kids that saw the movie understood it.
 
Dude...everything you need to understand that line is in the actual line. It isn't that hard to understand. The kids that saw the movie understood it.

I hear at least two major interpretations of that line and it's either:
A) his turning Harvey
B) setting loose the rest of the freaks

It doesn't really matter, it's his story and he can do whatever he wants with it. The fact is though that the two movies so far have all been a long chain of cause and effect scenarios and the intereactions get more complicated the further from the begining you get. He wants to continue this and I was showing him options for progressing with Jokers possible cause/effect.
 
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Yes, and I plan on concentrating on Bruce/Batman the most. I'm going to start with his story first in the outline and draw from that. Then later when I think I'm satisfied I'll go onto the other stories of characters. But as for the Joker, if he is in the film, he will be in Arkham, I'm thinking he could escape.

Here's what I'll be always be drawing from the film.

"He's the hero Gotham deserves. But not the one it need right now."

I really think this quote will have alot to do with Batman III and I will follow this quote. If he does escape, he is the only villain where Gotham realizes they need a hero. And they need one right now. Batman will do something where he will get Gotham's acceptance. Like I said, the batsignal will symbolize that when it comes back. We'll see where the Joker goes. But I want to include Catwoman. She will be difficult. Will she be just ajewel thief or something more? She will have no origin, she will just come in as Catwoman. I'd actually like to introduce her as Catwoman before Selina.
 
I think the Riddler could contribute very well to adding an element of "mystery/suspense" to the series. Here's a concept I've been mulling around:

We see Edward Nashton. We do not see The Riddler. We can use The Departed as somewhat of an inspiration here, in that Nashton is brought in to investigate a series of Zodiac-style murders (the difference between the two, however, is that the Riddler leaves riddles that, when solved, tell the police both where the next murder will be and who the next victim is, but doesn't delve into the particulars.) but over the course of the film it becomes apparent that Nashton and Riddler are one and the same.

At the same time, we have Batman investigating the Riddler killings covertly, constantly pursued by the GPD. To make matters worse, a common catburglar arrives on the scene, making it more difficult for Bats to operate. On the other end, Bruce's high-school sweetheart Selina Kyle returns to Gotham, and she and Bruce begin seeing each other. However, Bruce struggles to move on after Rachel's death, making his and Selina's relationship very awkward. Also, it's unclear what Selina's/Catwoman's motives truly are, as she steals from wealthy corporate CEOs with dirty laundry, making her something of an antihero.
 
Here's what I'll be always be drawing from the film.

"He's the hero Gotham deserves. But not the one it need right now."

You also have to address Bruces "will to act" as Batman causing escalation...or are we done with that. I would think Bruce/Batman needs to get from causing things by actions to preventing them or at least acting without precipitating a further spiral down for Gotham. I would think this is logical if TDK was the darkest period in a trilogy leading up to the dawn.

They do not need him now because "faith needs to be rewarded". We saw the people on the boats chose not to act and thier faith was rewarded, and we saw Fox had his faith rewarded by Bruce having the machine self destruct, but the public in general still needs to have this addressed I would think.

And btw, I was not advocating Jokers return, merely what may come from his involvement in TDK.
 
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You also have to address Bruces "will to act" as Batman causing escalation...or are we done with that. I would think Bruce/Batman needs to get from causing things by actions to preventing them or at least acting without precipitating a further spiral down for Gotham. I would think this is logical if TDK was the darkest period in a trilogy leading up to the dawn.

They do not need him now because "faith needs to be rewarded". We saw the people on the boats chose not to act and thier faith was rewarded, and we saw Fox had his faith rewarded by Bruce having the machine self destruct, but the public in general still needs to have this addressed I would think.

And btw, I was not advocating Jokers return, merely what may come from his involvement in TDK.


I didn't think you were. I was just suggesting Joker's role.
 
I think the Riddler could contribute very well to adding an element of "mystery/suspense" to the series. Here's a concept I've been mulling around:

We see Edward Nashton. We do not see The Riddler. We can use The Departed as somewhat of an inspiration here, in that Nashton is brought in to investigate a series of Zodiac-style murders (the difference between the two, however, is that the Riddler leaves riddles that, when solved, tell the police both where the next murder will be and who the next victim is, but doesn't delve into the particulars.) but over the course of the film it becomes apparent that Nashton and Riddler are one and the same.

At the same time, we have Batman investigating the Riddler killings covertly, constantly pursued by the GPD. To make matters worse, a common catburglar arrives on the scene, making it more difficult for Bats to operate. On the other end, Bruce's high-school sweetheart Selina Kyle returns to Gotham, and she and Bruce begin seeing each other. However, Bruce struggles to move on after Rachel's death, making his and Selina's relationship very awkward. Also, it's unclear what Selina's/Catwoman's motives truly are, as she steals from wealthy corporate CEOs with dirty laundry, making her something of an antihero.

I really like this idea. Though I haven't seen The Departed. But The Riddler will be a narcisist. And, yeah, I always did have an idea about him being a Zodiac like murderer.

And about Selina, I don't really like the high school thing. But you kinda gave me an idea. My Selina might just be this presense that mystifies Bruce. But she might just play a relationship with him to steal from his company as Catwoman or Selina.
 
I think the Riddler could contribute very well to adding an element of "mystery/suspense" to the series. Here's a concept I've been mulling around:

We see Edward Nashton. We do not see The Riddler. We can use The Departed as somewhat of an inspiration here, in that Nashton is brought in to investigate a series of Zodiac-style murders (the difference between the two, however, is that the Riddler leaves riddles that, when solved, tell the police both where the next murder will be and who the next victim is, but doesn't delve into the particulars.) but over the course of the film it becomes apparent that Nashton and Riddler are one and the same.

At the same time, we have Batman investigating the Riddler killings covertly, constantly pursued by the GPD. To make matters worse, a common catburglar arrives on the scene, making it more difficult for Bats to operate. On the other end, Bruce's high-school sweetheart Selina Kyle returns to Gotham, and she and Bruce begin seeing each other. However, Bruce struggles to move on after Rachel's death, making his and Selina's relationship very awkward. Also, it's unclear what Selina's/Catwoman's motives truly are, as she steals from wealthy corporate CEOs with dirty laundry, making her something of an antihero.

I like this idea, but I don't like the idea of the Riddler being a common serial killer. the Riddler, even at his worst is'nt someone who enjoys killing in the comics. He is about proving himself, and is willing to let people die for it, but he does not enjoy it in the way The Joker or Black Mask do.

Because of this, instead I would make Nashton someone called in by the police to investigate murders like you said, but he is actually secretly working with the murderer, to keep his name clear, who is Black Mask/Roman Sionis and is doing the killings to advance Janus Corporation. Nashton invents the Riddler persona to throw off Batman from the real trail and lure him out. Again its not heavily important we see the Riddler in costume except through maybe a fake police sketch.

Catwoman can be an in between person, and we don't know where her loyalties lay until the end (perhaps she doesn't even know herself). She could start out as a suspect as the possible killer (along with Batman) with confusion laying in the fact that they all wear all black costumes (Black Mask, Batman and Catwoman). Somewhere in the middle of the film, she is recruited by Black Mask who says that if she helps him find out who Batman is, he will let her off for all the money she has stolen from him. She agrees to this, finds out Batman is Bruce, tells Black Mask and the Riddler who set up an intricate trap for Batman/Bruce Wayne to humiliate him and eventually capture and torture him, but in the end decides she is in love with Bruce/Batman and saves him. After the main climax, (which where Black Mask is killed and The Riddler gets captured) Batman talks to Catwoman and says, because she is a criminal, he cannot be with her. He does lets her go instead of capturing her though. She starts to run, but in the end turns herself over to the police.

Characters
Batman/Bruce Wayne: Batman is still on the run from the cops. Despite the fact he is still fighting crime, the cops are using him as a scapegoat and trying to pend him as the Black Mask killer. Batman himself is actually quite close to solving the mystery of the killer, having almost captured him once only to be interrupted by the appearance of a mysterious cat burgler. Bruce Wayne is not doing so great either. Still distraught over the death of Rachel, he has almost completely given up on social interaction save for with Alfred while Wayne Enterprises has recently lost a large government contract to Janus Corporation who managed to somehow acquire a piece technology last minute that Wayne Enterprises had spent years developing.

The Riddler: The presence of at least two black costumed figures running amok in the city has caused the police great distress and left their own detectives baffled. Finally fed up with the lack of progress in catching Batman or proving him to be the Black Mask killer, the Mayor orders Gordon to call in "an expert". Ed Nashton, a former codebreak turned private investigator is hired to track down the Batman and prove he is the Black Masked killer. What the police don't know however is that Roman Sionis, the real Black Mask, has already gotten to him and made a deal. He will help him solve the riddle, "Who is the Batman?", if Nashton promises to help him keep his name clean and turn the Batman over to him once he is captured. To lure the Batman out, Nashton invents the persona "The Riddler", leaving riddles that lead Batman to various points where he can be captured and framed as the Black Mask killer.

The Black Mask: Roman Sionis is the newly appointed CEO of Janus Corporation. While at first he seemed to be running the company into the ground, the minute he realized he could use criminal activities to bolster his company things turned around. The first victim of the Black Mask is a former intern at Wayne Enterprises who Black Mask captured and tortured into receiving information on technology that could advance his company, the next string of victims are all various other corporate targets who's death can advance Sionis but in a none obvious way. After almost being captured by Batman, Sionis turns to Nashton, someone who he previously used to spy on his victims before their murder, to infiltrate the police department and lead them astray. Nashton agrees on the condition that he use his corporate power to help him capture Batman. Sionis also has a personal rivalry with Bruce Wayne, with slight hints that they have a past together. This causes Sionis to seek to not only demask Batman once he finds out who he is, but humiliate, torture and kill him.

The Catwoman: While at first simply a cat burgler, after her encounter with Batman and Black Mask while attempting to steal from a powerful businessman that Black Mask intends to murder, she realizes that in order to go toe to toe with these freaks, she needs her own form of standing out and her own scare tactics. Having an affinity for cats, she takes on the costume. Meanwhile as Selina Kyle, she has become the Heroine of the East End and has started a large charity with stolen funds that seeks to revitalize the area. She meets Bruce Wayne at a charity function he attends by Alfred's demand, and becomes enticed with him and his depression. Bruce, suspicious of her sudden rise to fortune accepts a date from her, and invites her to Wayne Manor. On the date, he manages to find they actually do have a lot in common and begins to like her, however she does scope the mansion, planning to come back and steal (showing for her, the life is almost like an addiction, she steals even from those she likes), and discovers he is Batman. Having a deal with Black Mask, she turns this information over to him in exchange for being let off for stealing from him.

The main theme of the movie is of course, riddles but also the blurring line between good and evil, and abuse of power.

The movie would be set up like a giant riddle, with at any one time, you don't know quite where anyone's loyalties lay. In fact, you could even set the movie up like a riddle, starting out with a sequence from sometimes toward the end of the movie showing newspaper headlines or something saying "Batman charged with over 40 murders", or "Batman: The most dangerous criminal alive". Then Alfred's voice asking "How could this have happened?" Before you cut to the story, showing the answer.
 
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All good ideas. But I think the relationship between Bruce and Selina should be bittersweet. And I like the Nashton throwing off Batman with The Riddler persona.

Now that I plan on making it suspense/mystery Batman will be more of a detective now that he's on the run. He does things his own way.
 
No contributions to Batman III, just a tagline for the poster : "There is nothing funny about a clown at Midnight".





(Lon Chaney Sr.)
 

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