The Dark Knight Screenwriter's perspective on TDK's script

[Anita18]

This is admittedly rather old, but I just happened upon this and OMG it's like crack for a cerebral fangirl like me.

Screenwriter Todd Alcott weighs in on TDK...by act, and in several parts.

My fascination with The Dark Knight is, primarily, structural. I have not encountered an American movie -- much less an American movie designed to be a gigantic blockbuster -- that is structured as ingeniously and compellingly as this one. I've simply never seen anything like it, and after several viewings it still continues to flabbergast.

I've worked on a handful of these types of movies, and let me tell you: they're hard -- they're really hard. There are so many issues for the writer to address: the protagonist must be active, the villain's plot must make sense, there must be a romantic interest, there must be due attention paid to the history of the character and the rules of the genre, they must be both fantastic and grounded at the same time, all these balls must be kept in the air and these concerns must mesh in a straightforward, compelling, swift, action-packed cinematic narrative, consistent in tone and true to its source material. I haven't seen one -- not one -- that has managed to get everything in and do everything right. None of the Superman movies do it, none of the previous WB Batman movies do it, none of the Spider-Man movies do it, neither of the Fantastic Four movies do it, and...none of the Bond movies -- after more than 20 tries -- do it either. (Iron Man comes close -- really close.) But The Dark Knight not only does a better job than any other movie based on its source material -- and by that I mean "superhero comics" -- it does it with a radically ambitious screenplay that challenges any number of conventions and brings a new, added weight to its subject.

http://toddalcott.livejournal.com/245469.html

http://toddalcott.livejournal.com/245730.html

http://toddalcott.livejournal.com/245929.html

http://toddalcott.livejournal.com/246209.html

http://toddalcott.livejournal.com/246481.html



And very interesting observations on the behind-the-scenes:

In August, I had a meeting with a producer who has had some experience producing Batman movies. The Dark Knight was still the number one movie in theaters that day, and conversation naturally turned to it.

ME: So -- The Dark Knight.
PRODUCER: I know.
ME: Right?
PRODUCER: I know. It's amazing. I know.
ME: So. You tell me. You make this kind of movie. You tell me. How?
PRODUCER: How what?
ME: How does a movie like that get made? In this environment, where anything complicated or challenging or pessimistic or visionary get ironed out to appeal to the broadest possible market, how does a movie like that get made? That's an expensive movie with a lot of moving parts -- the producers, the cast, the special effects, the location shooting -- how does a picture like that get made, and end up that good?
PRODUCER: Because Christopher Nolan gets no notes.
(pause)
ME: What do you mean?
PRODUCER: I mean, the studio gives him no notes. None. Zero.
ME: The director gets no notes?
PRODUCER: None.
ME: So, you're telling me, Christopher Nolan and his brother write the script --
PRODUCER: And then they shoot it. And the studio gives them no notes. They've given them the project, they trust their vision, and they let them shoot it the way they want. And that's how a movie like that gets made.

http://toddalcott.livejournal.com/246698.html


Before you ask, no, Alcott isn't a big-shot screenwriter, but if you really know Hollywood, barely any working screenwriter is. Those who have made it are either lucky or uber-super-duper-talented. (I'd argue Jonah Nolan is both, because Prestige was his first screenplay and his brother Chris was directing.)

But even if someone isn't a big-shot screenwriter, you're still required to know your stuff. Alcott makes a living by writing in Hollywood despite lack of IMDB credits, so obviously he's sold off a number of spec scripts and isn't doing too badly.

Anyhow, it's really cool having a screenwriter analyze TDK, since for me, TDK is the very first film where I really want to sit and pick it apart. Enjoy!

 

[mrbrownie]

Awe-inspiring find! I'm going through the first part, finished the introduction, loved his counterpoints to the mainstream nitpicks .

Thanks, anita!!

 

[CJ]

Pretty good read, but some errors in it.

The blog says that Bruce letting Dent take the fall for Batman is what made Rachel agree to marry Dent. Rachel already had the letter written and in an envelope when she first learned of it. That's probably the entire reason she showed up to Bruce's penthouse that day, was to drop off the letter. She only found out when she got to Bruce's place, that Bruce was allowing Dent to take the fall.

Also, the blog mentions that the Joker won at the end of the film. There's another thread for discussion of that topic, but it's clear by the end of the film that the Joker lost to Batman, but Batman had to sacrifice himself in order to do it. The blogger wasn't taking into account WHY Batman took the fall for Dent. It was the only way to defeat the Joker. If he didn't, then crime would be on the rise, and as Gordon put it "people would lose hope" so Batman sacrificed himself to protect Gotham and defeat the Joker, forever becoming Gotham's Dark Knight.

 

[Anita18]

Pretty good read, but some errors in it.

The blog says that Bruce letting Dent take the fall for Batman is what made Rachel agree to marry Dent. Rachel already had the letter written and in an envelope when she first learned of it. That's probably the entire reason she showed up to Bruce's penthouse that day, was to drop off the letter. She only found out when she got to Bruce's place, that Bruce was allowing Dent to take the fall.

Also, the blog mentions that the Joker won at the end of the film. There's another thread for discussion of that topic, but it's clear by the end of the film that the Joker lost to Batman, but Batman had to sacrifice himself in order to do it. The blogger wasn't taking into account WHY Batman took the fall for Dent. It was the only way to defeat the Joker. If he didn't, then crime would be on the rise, and as Gordon put it "people would lose hope" so Batman sacrificed himself to protect Gotham and defeat the Joker, forever becoming Gotham's Dark Knight.

Rachel's at Bruce's penthouse because "it's the safest place in the city" and the Joker had named her next. She stayed the night into the next morning, only leaving when Dent had identified himself as Batman. (Joker had promised to kill people every day Batman didn't identify himself, so if he were an honorable person, he'd stop killing once Batman was outed.) She doubted Joker's honesty when talking with Bruce, but she was probably worried sick about Harvey at that point and probably didn't care for her own safety.

It's a fast cut, but it's possible that Rachel wrote the letter in response to that press conference. Or maybe she wrote it beforehand for use sometime in a nondescript future, but after seeing what happened, made up her mind for certain and decided to give it to Alfred at that moment.

And Alcott's interpretation of Batman taking the fall for Dent I thought was purely from a screenwriting angle. It's what makes Batman's character come full circle, instead of just blaming it all on the Joker.

But really, I think you could go for hours about the themes introduced in TDK.

 

[Eggyman]

That was a great read. Thank you very much, Anita.

I agree with most of it, although I did spot a couple of things he'd missed.

 

[mclay18]

Alcott doesn't say which producer of TDK talked to him? Did he not remember or is he keeping that person anonymous for privacy's sake?

Methinks it was either Benjamin Melniker or Michael Uslan, I can't see Roven or Nolan's wife Emma opening up about that.

 

[Anjow1060]

*professional screenwriter (meaning actually sold scripts for $$$) peers over keyboard*


.....


*sneaks back below*

- Jow

 

[Steelsheen]

Jow dude! hows it hangin?

this is an excellent find Anita saving and readin'

 

[Doctor Jones]

What an excellent article. It makes me appreciate and see many things about TDK that I loved and found some things I never knew before.

 

[Doctor Jones]

My personal favorite parts.

..."how well The Dark Knight balances and interweaves a two-villain storyline, something done well for the first time ever in a superhero movie, and I'd like to take that thought further. For the people who feel shortchanged by the Two-Face storyline, think about this: the entire movie is about him, the struggle for his soul, which represents the soul of Gotham City. Bruce Wayne has sacrificed everything he has (except, of course, all his power and wealth, obviously) for the "good" part of Gotham, the Joker keeps aborbing more and more of the city's power and wealth and then squandering it, and the two of them literally tear Harvey Dent in half. When folks complain that Two-Face isn't in the movie enough, I think what they mean is that the cool special-effects makeup isn't in the movie enough, and that Two-Face doesn't have any kind of outlandish, colorful scheme to implement. Well, that's too bad, but the Joker doesn't have a scheme either. There isn't any "end" to this for the Joker, he wants to take the whole world and send it down the toilet -- an endless project of disorder to match Bruce's endless project of order. Whereas Two-Face has the opposite of a grand scheme -- he wants to kill the people who made him suffer, and then kill himself. The folks who pine for a "bigger" Two-Face story, one to match the one in, say, Batman Forever I guess, where he teams up with the Riddler to build a giant mind-control ray, miss the great tragedy at the heart of The Dark Knight -- they want a supervillain, whereas the Nolans have imagined him as a human being. In any case, Wuertz loses his coin toss and Harvey kills him."

 

[Doctor Jones]

"About those ferries: setting aside any possible tricks up the Joker's sleeve (ie, each ferry blowing itself up instead of the other), to me the morality of the situation breaks down like this: the "good" Gothamites and the "bad" Gothamites have been given the opportunity to kill each other, and who will pull the trigger? The "good" Gothamites (represented by Average Guy on the "good" ferry) all want the "bad" Gothamites dead, but they don't have the strength of will to actually kill (which is why they need a justice system). The "bad" Gothamites, meanwhile, have killed, they've faced that choice and know what it means. ("Killing is making a choice," says the Joker to Batman in the interrogation room, and the reverse is also true -- when people in power make a choice (and everyone is a person in power), they are, on some level, choosing who will live and who will die. Bruce's idealism and the Joker's nihilism meet -- half-way -- in the person of Two-Face.) In the end, the "good" Gothamites don't have the will to defend themselves (which is why they need Batman), but the "bad" Gothamites have the strength to not kill, which calls all the way back to what the bank manager says to the Joker at the end of the heist sequence -- criminals in Gotham used to have honor and respect, and here we see those qualities in action. It's not just that Big Scary-Looking Convict conveniently grows a soul when faced with the opportunity of cold-blooded murder, it's that he, and not the "good" Gothamites, and not the National Guardsman holding the detonator, has killed, and thus understands the strength it takes to have that will -- and refuse to act on it. When Big Scary-Looking Convict throws his detonator out the window, he is risking his life but saving his soul, but when Average Guy gingerly puts his detonator back in its box, he's admitting that it is not the responsibility of a citizen to mete out justice (the breaking of which rule is what sets the narrative of The Dark Knight into motion to begin with)."

"Across the way, the Joker is disappointed that neither the good nor the bad of Gotham could kill anyone, so he goes to his backup plan of doing it himself. This is enough of a distraction for him to allow Batman to get the drop on him, and the Joker plunges down the side of the building -- and is saved by Batman. (Which points to one of the key rules of the superhero genre -- in a superhero story, the villain wants to kill the hero, but the hero wants to save the villain, not kill him. Bruce, even after everything that's happened, cannot, will not, kill the Joker. And I thought this was supposed to be a conservative wet-dream narrative.) As the Joker dangles helpless, he tells Batman that the stunt with the ferries is -- yes -- only a distraction, something to focus Batman's attention while the real event, the real crime, is happening elsewhere -- the self-destructive rampage of Two-Face. If the ferries had blown up, Gotham City would recover, but if they knew that their white-knight DA was a murderous madman, the whole system of justice would fall apart."

 

[Doctor Jones]

"Having saved the Joker, Bruce must now race off to save Two-Face. Two-Face has decided to punish Gordon not by killing him but by killing his son. Batman shows up for a three-way conversation between himself, Two-Face and Gordon, where they sort out who did what to whom and why. Batman feels that, even after killing three people, Two-Face is still Harvey Dent, and deserves to be saved. Harvey wants justice for those he feels are responsible for Rachel's death, but Batman tells him that it's not that simple -- Rachel is dead because Bruce, Harvey and Gordon all acted, together, to clean up Gotham City. "Then why was I the only one who lost everything?" wails Two-Face, and Bruce holds his tongue -- not only has he lost Rachel too, but he's lost his parents and his normality into the bargain. He's sacrificed more than Harvey could ever imagine, and he doesn't bring it down to chance -- he brings it down to choice. He chose to act, setting all the events of the narrative into motion, including the death of Rachel and Harvey's disfigurment. When people complain about Batman being foolish in The Dark Knight, they're wishing for the strong, always-right, never-wrong Batman of their imaginations. But the greatness of The Dark Knight's narrative lies in how it shows that Batman is often wrong, and completely helpless when dealing with a criminal like the Joker. There is no defense against evil, only the strength to not give in to it. "If Batman has limits, I can't afford to know them," says Bruce in Act I, and here he's confronted with the folly of that headstrong philosophy -- Batman is all about limits, and the narrative of The Dark Knight is, in large part, an examination, and definition, of those limits."



"Finally, some folk don't buy that Batman has to take the fall for Harvey's crimes. Why not tell people the truth, they ask, or, if Gordon absolutely must lie, why not pin the crimes on the Joker? And yet, in Bruce's philosophy, he is responsible for them. He inspired Harvey to run for DA, he set into motion the bold stroke of rounding up all of Gotham's gangsters, he gave the big party to ensure Harvey's power, he set about making Harvey Daytime Batman so that he could stand the hope of giving up his burden and stealing Rachel away, he created the power vacuum that gave rise to the Joker. He tried to make Gotham a better place, and failed, in every conceivable way. The Joker wins at the end of The Dark Knight and now it's Gordon's dogs who chase him."

 

[Bond]

PRODUCER: Because Christopher Nolan gets no notes.
(pause)
ME: What do you mean?
PRODUCER: I mean, the studio gives him no notes. None. Zero.
ME: The director gets no notes?
PRODUCER: None.
ME: So, you're telling me, Christopher Nolan and his brother write the script --
PRODUCER: And then they shoot it. And the studio gives them no notes. They've given them the project, they trust their vision, and they let them shoot it the way they want. And that's how a movie like that gets made.

This excited me for some reason.

 

[Angeloz]

This is admittedly rather old, but I just happened upon this and OMG it's like crack for a cerebral fangirl like me.

Screenwriter Todd Alcott weighs in on TDK...by act, and in several parts.



http://toddalcott.livejournal.com/245469.html

http://toddalcott.livejournal.com/245730.html

http://toddalcott.livejournal.com/245929.html

http://toddalcott.livejournal.com/246209.html

http://toddalcott.livejournal.com/246481.html



And very interesting observations on the behind-the-scenes:


http://toddalcott.livejournal.com/246698.html


Before you ask, no, Alcott isn't a big-shot screenwriter, but if you really know Hollywood, barely any working screenwriter is. Those who have made it are either lucky or uber-super-duper-talented. (I'd argue Jonah Nolan is both, because Prestige was his first screenplay and his brother Chris was directing.)

But even if someone isn't a big-shot screenwriter, you're still required to know your stuff. Alcott makes a living by writing in Hollywood despite lack of IMDB credits, so obviously he's sold off a number of spec scripts and isn't doing too badly.

Anyhow, it's really cool having a screenwriter analyze TDK, since for me, TDK is the very first film where I really want to sit and pick it apart. Enjoy!

Thanks for posting it including Doctor Jones for quoting from it. For some strange reason I can't download any LJ pages for the past two or three days. The above included. I'm in Australia although it might be my computer or internet provider. Every other site works. Just not LJ. I don't suppose anyone has a suggestion to fix it?

Angeloz

 

[Pennyworth]

Anyhow, it's really cool having a screenwriter analyze TDK, since for me, TDK is the very first film where I really want to sit and pick it apart.

Agreed.
Thanks Anita, I throughly enjoyed reading this.

 

[BestGirl]

I liked the part where Alcott pointed out that TDK had multiple scenes that would be considered exciting enough to be climaxes in most normal films. t: I'm considering using a line from that review as an addition for my sig.

 

[I Am The Knight]

This seems interesting. I think I'll give it a go seeing as how I'm stuck at work right now haha. Thanks Anita.

 

[namtaB]

Wholly over-analysis Batman!!!!