Season 7, Episode 3 "The Queen's Justice" Discussion Thread

[Iceman]

Maybe that was the problem in his eyes - Cat's resentment is the biggest thing that sold the deception. If Cat was weirdly accepting of Jon, people might have gotten an inkling that something was not what it seemed. At least maybe that was how Ned saw it.

True also. So maybe Ned was smarter and even more noble (although that part isn't surprising) than we knew.

 

[squeekness]

I haven't seen Hannibal, at all! Will have to boot it up the list.

Yes you must!

 

[Reek]

The Mountain-who-does-not-Write gave D&D the major plot points and their resolutions for the entire series so on the one in a million chance that the books somehow finish (likely written by someone else based on notes) expect to see all of these exact same plot points.

I wouldnt be so sure. They said they would move towards the same ultimate conclusion but the journey to that conclusion would be like the books in some ways and unlike the books in other ways. So every plot point and event in the show's final three seasons isnt going to appear in the final two books.

It's already drastically different... so... give me your drugs.

I'm looking forward to Dany's reaction when she first hears.

Shes going to bone jon... and hes gonna be like "thanks auntie"... driving her mad... she will then start screaming "burn them all!!! "... to which Jon replies..." I just gave you gonorrhea... we'll see who burns. "

 

[Marvolo]

 

[Guts]

The Mountain-who-does-not-Write gave D&D the major plot points and their resolutions for the entire series so on the one in a million chance that the books somehow finish (likely written by someone else based on notes) expect to see all of these exact same plot points.

They have already deviated from the books in some pretty major ways, so I think it's safe to say not ALL the plot points will line up.

GRRM himself has outright said that there's going to be a lot of massive differences between page and screen.

I think the reason they have deviated from the books before getting past them is because they didn't want to accidentally match up with what GRRM is writing. No Lady Stoneheart, Brienne actually finds Arya and Sansa in the show, no Coldhands, Willas and Garland Tyrell are absent from the series, Euron doesn't have the dragonbinder, and no Aegon Targaryen.

 

[Roose Bolton]

I think D&D have favourites as well. Certain characters are probably faring better in the show than they will in the unpublished books because D&D have their own designs and know those characters are fan favourites. For instance, I don't think Brienne makes it to the War for the Dawn, and I don't believe Davos will move over to become Jon's right hand man like he does in the show. Bronn is nowhere near as relevant in the books either.

 

[flickchick85]

I haven't seen Hannibal, at all! Will have to boot it up the list.

Yeah you should really get on that one.

 

[JeetKuneDo]

I'm looking forward to Dany's reaction when she first hears.

One way would be for the dragons to come over and start treating Jon like a Targaryen right in front of her.

 

[Iceman]

Yeah you should really get on that one.

Every time I hear this it gets further up the list.

One way would be for the dragons to come over and start treating Jon like a Targaryen right in front of her.

Jon can get his own naked dragon Queen birthing scene in the funeral pyre to prove it (shortly after being taken away by his Dothraki Khal for his wedding night).

 

[Marvolo]

One way would be for the dragons to come over and start treating Jon like a Targaryen right in front of her.

The dragons were ok with Tyrion, but Tyrion isnt a Targ so I doubt that would prove to her that Jon is a Targ. But it would be cool to see the dragons take a liking to Jon.

 

[righthooksrus86]

that would probably turn her on and have her looking at him as a potential father for her dragons lol.

 

[TheFuture]

I haven't seen Hannibal, at all! Will have to boot it up the list.

Mad's Lector could teach the Thenn a thing or two about fine dining.

 

[JeetKuneDo]

The dragons were ok with Tyrion, but Tyrion isnt a Targ so I doubt that would prove to her that Jon is a Targ. But it would be cool to see the dragons take a liking to Jon.

Or is he?

Remember his dad saying he only claimed him because he couldn't prove he wasn't his?

 

[marvelrobbins]

Or is he?

Remember his dad saying he only claimed him because he couldn't prove he wasn't his?

that is very possable.i read up on the theory so it could very easily be a final season shocker.

 

[Warhorse]

The dragons were ok with Tyrion, but Tyrion isnt a Targ so I doubt that would prove to her that Jon is a Targ. But it would be cool to see the dragons take a liking to Jon.

That we know of. For all we know, maybe his mother had an affair with a Targ, an he is the product of it.

 

[KingCheops]

I think D&D have favourites as well. Certain characters are probably faring better in the show than they will in the unpublished books because D&D have their own designs and know those characters are fan favourites. For instance, I don't think Brienne makes it to the War for the Dawn, and I don't believe Davos will move over to become Jon's right hand man like he does in the show. Bronn is nowhere near as relevant in the books either.

That can also have to do with the fact that they know what happens ultimately and so can trim a lot of the "secondary" or "tertiary" characters/storylines. If you already know that the Sand Snakes are only important for killing Myrcella and siding with Dany then you only need to show them enough to get some emotional investment to one side or the other. That alone cuts out pretty close to a half a book.

 

[Roose Bolton]

That can also have to do with the fact that they know what happens ultimately and so can trim a lot of the "secondary" or "tertiary" characters/storylines. If you already know that the Sand Snakes are only important for killing Myrcella and siding with Dany then you only need to show them enough to get some emotional investment to one side or the other. That alone cuts out pretty close to a half a book.

Well in the case of the Sand Snakes, in particular, they weren't ever really meant to be include in the show originally. Dorne itself by and large was a last minute addition that D&D included because they saw that Oberyn was popular, they liked Indira Varma a lot and they needed Jaime away from King's Landing for the majority of the season for Cersei's plot to happen. We also know that they had larger plans for the Martells (Alexander Siddig was originally contracted to do 4 episodes in season 6 instead of 1) and they quickly cast those plans aside when reception turned as sour as it did.

Certain things like that happen all the time in productions where they craft specific elements to reflect what the showrunners believe may or may not be popular with audiences. Cersei being such a big element this late into the game instead of a newcomer is another example.

 

[TheVileOne]

I feel even more for Ned Stark considering he had to make his own wife believe he had sired a son from another woman to sell the illusion that Jon Snow was his bastard. When the whole time Ned was never unfaithful to his vows with Catelyn at all, and Catelyn had to die never knowing the truth that Ned was true to her the entire time.

I'm curious though, did Ned only really marry Catelyn because his older brother was murdered by Aerys? Like it was a political marriage. Catelyn was married to the elder Stark first and then married Ned as a result. Did they really even know each other at all before they wed? Other than that Catelyn was his older brother's spouse?

 

[KevTravels]

I feel even more for Ned Stark considering he had to make his own wife believe he had sired a son from another woman to sell the illusion that Jon Snow was his bastard. When the whole time Ned was never unfaithful to his vows with Catelyn at all, and Catelyn had to die never knowing the truth that Ned was true to her the entire time.

I'm curious though, did Ned only really marry Catelyn because his older brother was murdered by Aerys? Like it was a political marriage. Catelyn was married to the elder Stark first and then married Ned as a result. Did they really even know each other at all before they wed? Other than that Catelyn was his older brother's spouse?

Yeah this is what saddens me.

 

[godisawesome]

Well in the case of the Sand Snakes, in particular, they weren't ever really meant to be include in the show originally. Dorne itself by and large was a last minute addition that D&D included because they saw that Oberyn was popular, they liked Indira Varma a lot and they needed Jaime away from King's Landing for the majority of the season for Cersei's plot to happen. We also know that they had larger plans for the Martells (Alexander Siddig was originally contracted to do 4 episodes in season 6 instead of 1) and they quickly cast those plans aside when reception turned as sour as it did.

Certain things like that happen all the time in productions where they craft specific elements to reflect what the showrunners believe may or may not be popular with audiences. Cersei being such a big element this late into the game instead of a newcomer is another example.

There's a fan on YouTube with a very thorough examination of why the Dorne subplot seemed to go so badly, and he really focuses on how D&D might have a producer-crush on Varma from her Rome days, and thus laser focused in on Varma as the "centerpiece" of the Dorne characters. Combine that with how much of the Dorne plot they had to make out of whole clothe to make it a season long plot, and you can see why it went down the crapper. Ellaria is as far from a centerpiece of the Dorne story in the books as possible, and the point of the tiny number of chapters in the books was to again deconstruct reckless and over-dramatic action, which is clearly something the D&Ds don't mind.

I feel even more for Ned Stark considering he had to make his own wife believe he had sired a son from another woman to sell the illusion that Jon Snow was his bastard. When the whole time Ned was never unfaithful to his vows with Catelyn at all, and Catelyn had to die never knowing the truth that Ned was true to her the entire time.

I'm curious though, did Ned only really marry Catelyn because his older brother was murdered by Aerys? Like it was a political marriage. Catelyn was married to the elder Stark first and then married Ned as a result. Did they really even know each other at all before they wed? Other than that Catelyn was his older brother's spouse?

It kind of speaks to the character of Ned and Catelyn that they fell deeply in love despite having almost no idea what type of person the other person was, and how good Ned's game was that he could show up at Winterfell with a "bastard son" and still make the hot red head fall for him.

 

[Iceman]

Mad's Lector could teach the Thenn a thing or two about fine dining.

What?! I didn't even know Mads played him. Bloody hell, not sure how I missed this but I would have been all over it if I'd known!

 

[Iceman]

I feel even more for Ned Stark considering he had to make his own wife believe he had sired a son from another woman to sell the illusion that Jon Snow was his bastard. When the whole time Ned was never unfaithful to his vows with Catelyn at all, and Catelyn had to die never knowing the truth that Ned was true to her the entire time.

I'm curious though, did Ned only really marry Catelyn because his older brother was murdered by Aerys? Like it was a political marriage. Catelyn was married to the elder Stark first and then married Ned as a result. Did they really even know each other at all before they wed? Other than that Catelyn was his older brother's spouse?

If so, it wouldn't be a huge deal for me. This kind of thing was quite common in medieval times. And in the GoT universe, Dany, Littlefinger, the Boltons etc are all talking of doing the same thing to gain power/influence/security by joining Houses but also in cases like Ned it would be done for the wellbeing of his people. I mean if Joffrey had just been a **** rather than a pyscho torturer, the marriage with Sansa would have been fine even with Ned, marrying into the royal family and his mate Robert while securing the safety of the North. Even Cat objected to it mainly because she was going such a long way from her home rather than anything else.

 

[squeekness]

What?! I didn't even know Mads played him. Bloody hell, not sure how I missed this but I would have been all over it if I'd known!

Lol, where have you been?

 

[Iceman]

Lol, where have you been?

This is your fault Squeeks, as the TV Master. You should have had a raven sent the moment Mads was announced.

 

[Iceman]

Well in the case of the Sand Snakes, in particular, they weren't ever really meant to be include in the show originally. Dorne itself by and large was a last minute addition that D&D included because they saw that Oberyn was popular, they liked Indira Varma a lot and they needed Jaime away from King's Landing for the majority of the season for Cersei's plot to happen. We also know that they had larger plans for the Martells (Alexander Siddig was originally contracted to do 4 episodes in season 6 instead of 1) and they quickly cast those plans aside when reception turned as sour as it did.

Certain things like that happen all the time in productions where they craft specific elements to reflect what the showrunners believe may or may not be popular with audiences. Cersei being such a big element this late into the game instead of a newcomer is another example.

Dorne barely felt like a real place. Just a very small film set where some occasional boring scenes happened. I'd rather they had gone for it properly as there was potential in having this exotic corner in the GoT universe. Maybe seeing Oberyn there would have injected some much needed personality into that place. What a character!