Season 7, Episode 4 "The Spoils of War" Discussion Thread

[Havok83]

Man I was rooting for Dani at the start of the series and up through S6 but she is so unlikeable now. I was rooting for Jaime and his army to kill her and her dragon

 

[godisawesome]

How can anyone say she hasn't shown any "Mad" tendencies? During her councils, someone is convincing her not to do the crazy thing... the madness is there, she's just not letting it consume her.

"Madness" doesn't feel like a proper description to me. Arrogant, yes, but logical arrogance because she magically raised three dragons and conquered her own fiefdom in Essos and has returned to her homeland with local support. Impatient, yes, because when you arrive in a fractured and divided continent with the support of the largest Kingdom in population, the southernmost Kingdom which has been untouched by war, and what's supposed to be a mighty fleet, a huge barbarian horde, and the most disciplined infantry on the world, and your opponent is a woman hated by everyone, you're going to wonder why you can't pull a Dracarys on the enemy capital when that's exactly how the Conqueror won the Riverlands.

Dany's character flaws still make logical sense, and her impulses make sense. Why should she acknowledge the claim of an acclaimed king from a beaten and depleted kingdom when he arrives to make his own (fantastical) demands? She's got the strongest hand in Westeros, and the best legal claim in regards to the Iron Throne's founding, since the Baratheon's are dead. Why should she wait and rein in her dragons when the enemy has so few power bases? If she can secure Jon's support, she has most of the continent under her control.

She's done nothing as illogically sadistic, or expressed an impulse as illogically sadistic, as break Westerosi custom in peacetime to burn a High Lord to death, or blow him up along with the Westerosi equivalent of the Vatican. She's expressed the emotional range and desires you'd expect of a young conqueror who knows she can win in several ways, and is disappointed her councilor has apparently let her down in their pursuit of the Golden Ending to her story.

She may yet show these traits, but right now, she's just got Conquering Prince Syndrome.

 

[KevTravels]

I don't get this growing hate against her. She has every right. Her family was murdered. She feels it's her birthright to rule Westeros. She has an army and 3 dragons to affirm her desires. She's spent 6 years going from basically an abused teenager to freeing thousands of slaves. She is going to change things in Westeros. She's going to burn her enemies. It's up to her enemies if they wanna bend the knee or not.

 

[KingCheops]

IT'S A FREAKING WAR!!!! In war, you kill the other side's soldiers, that's kind of how it works. People who keep saying "well she shouldn't have killed those men, blah blah blah" just show that they've never been in a war.

And now, she DIDN'T get everything in dishonorable way.

I'm sorry, but this notion that she's the villain, or going crazy, because she took out a legitimate military target (Jon would have done the same thing if he'd had a dragon while fighting the Bolton's, or Stannis at Blackwater) is ludicrous.

People let their dislike of her cause them to ignore context, logic, and reason.

No. If Jon, Tyrion, or Jamie had done this exact same thing my reaction would be the exact same reaction. She literally said to Tyrion that the Lannisters have the food she needs to feed her troops and then in the very next scene SHE BURNS ALL THE FOOD SHE NEEDS TO FEED HER TROOPS!!!

She could have just as easily strafed all the troops and incinerated them all. She had absolutely no reason to burn ALL THE FOOD. I don't care about her killing Lannister troops. It's war, soldiers die, fine. She was shown clearly killing troops without burning wagons but then because she is a horrible, irrational twit she decides to swing around and burn all the wagons too.

 

[Ezio Auditore]

[YT]RET4E58u51I[/YT]

Wow. Awesome.

No. If Jon, Tyrion, or Jamie had done this exact same thing my reaction would be the exact same reaction. She literally said to Tyrion that the Lannisters have the food she needs to feed her troops and then in the very next scene SHE BURNS ALL THE FOOD SHE NEEDS TO FEED HER TROOPS!!!

She could have just as easily strafed all the troops and incinerated them all. She had absolutely no reason to burn ALL THE FOOD. I don't care about her killing Lannister troops. It's war, soldiers die, fine. She was shown clearly killing troops without burning wagons but then because she is a horrible, irrational twit she decides to swing around and burn all the wagons too.

This.

 

[squeekness]

Hackers: threaten more leaks. HBO:

You would think they would have better defenses by now. Unless they like the hype the leaks get them.

 

[Iceman]

I don't get this growing hate against her. She has every right. Her family was murdered. She feels it's her birthright to rule Westeros. She has an army and 3 dragons to affirm her desires. She's spent 6 years going from basically an abused teenager to freeing thousands of slaves. She is going to change things in Westeros. She's going to burn her enemies. It's up to her enemies if they wanna bend the knee or not.

She's going to burn opposition soldiers who are under orders and have no choice in what they do. Everything else is cool. That part is not so cool. Forcing anyone to yield where saying no means death is the same way most conquerors rise to power. In other words she's not dissimilar to those conquerors and her fans should understand that she is still going to burn their families if they happen to be born on the wrong side and find themselves forcibly drafted into the military.

 

[KingCheops]

She's going to burn opposition soldiers who are under orders and have no choice in what they do. Everything else is cool. That part is not so cool. Forcing anyone to yield where saying no means death is the same way most conquerors rise to power. In other words she's not dissimilar to those conquerors and her fans should understand that she is still going to burn their families if they happen to be born on the wrong side and find themselves forcibly drafted into the military.

This I disagree with. The ethics and morality of conscription are irrelevant. It's not her fault Cersei/Tywin raised their troops that way. The fact of the matter was that there was an enemy force transporting food back to their stronghold which you want to besiege. That makes them fair game no matter what.

I think the peasants will be more upset when thousands of hungry Dothraki are set loose in their lands.

 

[TheVileOne]

She's going to burn opposition soldiers who are under orders and have no choice in what they do. Everything else is cool. That part is not so cool. Forcing anyone to yield where saying no means death is the same way most conquerors rise to power. In other words she's not dissimilar to those conquerors and her fans should understand that she is still going to burn their families if they happen to be born on the wrong side and find themselves forcibly drafted into the military.

Are the soldiers under orders when they rape women and kill children as well and steal their belongings? Maybe they are allowed to get away with that, but is that a rule and order for the armies?

 

[KevTravels]

She's going to burn opposition soldiers who are under orders and have no choice in what they do. Everything else is cool. That part is not so cool. Forcing anyone to yield where saying no means death is the same way most conquerors rise to power. In other words she's not dissimilar to those conquerors and her fans should understand that she is still going to burn their families if they happen to be born on the wrong side and find themselves forcibly drafted into the military.

This is WAR. GoT doesn't have the Geneva Convention.

She has every right to strike down any soldier on the battlefield who opposes her.

 

[Havok83]

I don't get this growing hate against her. She has every right. Her family was murdered. She feels it's her birthright to rule Westeros. She has an army and 3 dragons to affirm her desires. She's spent 6 years going from basically an abused teenager to freeing thousands of slaves. She is going to change things in Westeros. She's going to burn her enemies. It's up to her enemies if they wanna bend the knee or not.

I find her new personality to be unappealing and the way she talks to Jon, quite off putting. Many others seem to feel the same way and I can definitely see why she has been hated this season.

 

[Iceman]

This I disagree with. The ethics and morality of conscription are irrelevant. It's not her fault Cersei/Tywin raised their troops that way. The fact of the matter was that there was an enemy force transporting food back to their stronghold which you want to besiege. That makes them fair game no matter what.

I think the peasants will be more upset when thousands of hungry Dothraki are set loose in their lands.

Yeah. But she doesn't have to be obsessed with being ruler of the 7 kingdoms. That prize comes with tonnes of deaths and means using those hungry Dothraki as soldiers. The whole thing is happening because of her. Cersei as evil as she is has no need to have a huge battle with people on the other side of the world. And this doesn't make Dany bad, just makes her a bit more similar to other conquerors than the saint she's sometimes made out to be. If your 'birthright' involved thousands of people dying would you be that obsessed with claiming it?

 

[Iceman]

Are the soldiers under orders when they rape women and kill children as well and steal their belongings? Maybe they are allowed to get away with that, but is that a rule and order for the armies?

Exactly why she is compromising her beliefs by using the Dothraki who have raped who knows how many as a huge part of her army. She has an obsession with being Queen that is blinding her to her own standards.

 

[Iceman]

This is WAR. GoT doesn't have the Geneva Convention.

She has every right to strike down any soldier on the battlefield who opposes her.

Yes she absolutely does. So lets stop pretending she is massively different to everyone else. If she was different she wouldn't exercise that right and would chill out at home having already achieved plenty.

 

[KevTravels]

Yes she absolutely does. So lets stop pretending she is massively different to everyone else. If she was different she wouldn't exercise that right and would chill out at home having already achieved plenty.

It's hard trying to be honorable in the world of GoT. It's almost like a handicap.

 

[flickchick85]

You would think they would have better defenses by now. Unless they like the hype the leaks get them.

I don't think they mind the hype, lol. But yes, no one wants to be hacked. The problem is, the more sophisticated cyber security becomes, hackers follow suit.

 

[Iceman]

Remember Watchers on the Wall and the giant's bow and arrow?

I hadn't until you mentioned it.

I hope that is another contributor. Balista bolt, giant arrows and maybe something else to land the killer blow (Night King would be nice). I really think one dragon needs to die and another get injured before I can believe that the force that contains them has any believable chance of losing.

 

[Iceman]

It's hard trying to be honorable in the world of GoT. It's almost like a handicap.

Yes exactly. It definitely is a handicap.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Hackers: threaten more leaks. HBO:

Yeah, the episodes/scripts are no longer a threat. But the personal info, and the emails can be seen as a problem. Still, no one is making money off GoT episodes now.

 

[righthooksrus86]

haha those hackers are lame...the episode still broke episodes for HBO.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

By the way, I do know the episode came from a different leak. Still, the same principle.

 

[Reek]

None of these leaks matter anyway... We have our own Three Eyed Raven right here on these boards... He can see the future!

 

[Warhorse]

I'm surprised there aren't some Jaws "smile you son of a *****" memes/gifs out there

HA! That 's a good one!

 

[KevTravels]

Game of Thrones isn't the kinda show where hackers can have much leverage. The episode was so great it broke their highest rating records. Now if this was a say 'The Mummy" or "King Arthur" then I could understand the studio being peeved and giving in to them.

I do wonder if by the final episode, will the show break 11-12 million viewers.

 

[Warhorse]

I don't get this growing hate against her. She has every right. Her family was murdered. She feels it's her birthright to rule Westeros. She has an army and 3 dragons to affirm her desires. She's spent 6 years going from basically an abused teenager to freeing thousands of slaves. She is going to change things in Westeros. She's going to burn her enemies. It's up to her enemies if they wanna bend the knee or not.

Come on now. Let's not pretend her family was all sunshine and rainbows. Except for Rhaegar, most of her family were ruthless, and even she has acknowldged that her father was a cruel man. The people had every right to rebel against her family and throw them out.