Season 7, Episode 6 "Beyond the Wall" Discussion Thread

[Voltron]

One thing that really bugged me was Dany not mourning her child Viserion "on screen" after their return from Beyond the Wall. When she was up on the wall, I thought she was looking up in the sky horizon hoping for Viserion to return, and Jon secondary.

 

[Loki882]

I thought that Emilia did a pretty good job of subtlety selling Dany's sadness. And Jon realizing it instantly (since Dany flat-out told him that she saw her dragons as her children) was a nice touch.

But perhaps they could have been more overt/spent more time on it.

 

[Iceman]

One thing that really bugged me was Dany not mourning her child Viserion "on screen" after their return from Beyond the Wall. When she was up on the wall, I thought she was looking up in the sky horizon hoping for Viserion to return, and Jon secondary.

Jon should have been secondary, agreed. They were limited by budget I guess but this is where it reduces the emotional pull of a great scene. In the show to date it has been almost like Danny has one dragon child who happens to have 2 distant cousins who show up every now and then. It was great seeing the other dragon's reactions here to the death but I would have like seeing that kind of interaction at least once before (maybe a situation where the others come to help one Dragon out that's struggling or at least not dominating as much as usual). And I'd have liked Dany to be able to mention the other 2 either individually or as a pair more often in the past. It seemed like it was always talk of either just Drogon or all 3. Nothing wrong with her having a favourite that she always rides but I would have liked to see those touches. I think direwolf deaths also are/will be less emotional than they could have been if they had the money/desire to show them more often.

 

[Voltron]

There was an outdoor scene between Dany and Jon in an earlier episode where she explicitly just mentions Rhaegal and Viserion, not Drogon.

Also, I was just expecting a little more emotion from Dany (where it didn't have to be overt) because I recall this scene in an earlier season. If she's visibly distressed in that gif, then imagine if one of them died.

 

[Iceman]

Yes. I was asking for that to happen more often so that it reinforeces that the other 2 are individually (not just as the rest of her brood) almost as important as Drogon to her. Also now that we've seen how much it can add when the dragons call out to each other showing the bond between them, it would have been great to see that shown more earlier. I mean maybe it was done more than I remember, I'll certainly keep more of an eye out for it on rewatches.

 

[Voltron]

Yes, it was really moving when Drogon and Rhaegal were calling out in grief for Viserion, but more so Rhaegal because he was always paired with his "brother" Viserion since earlier eps.

I think Dany slightly favors Drogon over R&V because he was named after her beloved Drogo whereas she never knew Rhaegar and was treated badly by Viserys.

 

[Loki882]

It's kind of fascinating how the show managed to sell most people on the Dany/Drogo thing, given the "questionable" way that it began.

 

[Voltron]

True, it was definitely stockholm syndrome.

Also, why didn't Jon just ride with Dany on Drogon Beyond the Wall then Drogon could've quickly swooped down to fetch a wight with his claws/feet in the first place?!

 

[Loki882]

Because poor writing/plot contrivance. No seriously that's the reason. Jon's plan was stupid from the beginning honestly.

 

[Voltron]

"You know nothing, Jon Snow" very much applies to that plan. to the others for agreeing with it. for the writers.

 

[Reek]

It was actually Jorah's idea to go up there...

And do some of you genuinely hate the show this much but keep watching it? or just like to point out the flaws? Not being a jerk, seriously asking.. I think the writing sucks too, but damn i enjoy the show... seems like y'all despise it.

 

[Iceman]

Yes, it was really moving when Drogon and Rhaegal were calling out in grief for Viserion, but more so Rhaegal because he was always paired with his "brother" Viserion since earlier eps.

I think Dany slightly favors Drogon over R&V because he was named after her beloved Drogo whereas she never knew Rhaegar and was treated badly by Viserys.

That's true yeah. I don't think she holds the Viserys link against Viserion though. They're all her children, but we've seen how good it is when the dragons almost communicate. This bond between Dany and her dragons and between the dragons is awesome and could have been even more with a bit of prefacing.

 

[Iceman]

It's kind of fascinating how the show managed to sell most people on the Dany/Drogo thing, given the "questionable" way that it began.

Questionable to us of course but I don't see it as questionable within the GoT universe as she had been expecting to marry her abusive brother before he mentioned that he would see Drogo's 40k men and horses take her if it meant he gets his army! This is how Targaryens and Dothraki roll.

 

[Voltron]

It was actually Jorah's idea to go up there...

And do some of you genuinely hate the show this much but keep watching it? or just like to point out the flaws? Not being a jerk, seriously asking.. I think the writing sucks too, but damn i enjoy the show... seems like y'all despise it.

Maybe Jorah secretly wanted Jon to die Beyond the Wall because he's jealous of Dany getting closer to Jon?

I don't hate the show, I just thought the plan was ridiculous.

That's true yeah. I don't think she holds the Viserys link against Viserion though. They're all her children, but we've seen how good it is when the dragons almost communicate. This bond between Dany and her dragons and between the dragons is awesome and could have been even more with a bit of prefacing.

Perhaps.

 

[Iceman]

Perhaps.

Didn't she name them herself (I don't remember reading or seeing this part, just assuming) after Viserys was already dead? If there was any chance of it being a negative surely she would have just chosen a different name.

 

[Iceman]

And do some of you genuinely hate the show this much but keep watching it? or just like to point out the flaws? Not being a jerk, seriously asking.. I think the writing sucks too, but damn i enjoy the show... seems like y'all despise it.

Don't know if you're talking about me but this is my favourite show ever.

 

[harlequinade]

Initial reaction, probably one of the dumbest episodes this season if not the series.

First, I'm getting sick of Arya's act. She's a psychopath and threatening to kill Sansa over a letter that ultimately had no impact since Robb a) knew it was coerced by the Lannisters and b) chose to go to war. It would have been different if he had agreed and was killed when we went to swear fealty. Her story and character have been awful since season 5.

It would still be awful because 1. Arya herself served the Lannisters and didn't use the opportunity to kill Tywin who has killed more Starks than Joffrey 2. She ignores/the writers forgotten that Sansa was visibly upset when her father was sentenced to die

And all of that when there are legitimate things Sansa should be thrown into cell for or executed - marrying Ramsay and not telling Jon about Knights of the Vale and causing the loss of so many lives

 

[Voltron]

Initial reaction, probably one of the dumbest episodes this season if not the series.

First, I'm getting sick of Arya's act. She's a psychopath and threatening to kill Sansa over a letter that ultimately had no impact since Robb a) knew it was coerced by the Lannisters and b) chose to go to war. It would have been different if he had agreed and was killed when we went to swear fealty. Her story and character have been awful since season 5.

Maybe Arya is putting on an act with Sansa knowing that LF is watching them inorder to mislead him that his plan to divide them is working.

Didn't she name them herself (I don't remember reading or seeing this part, just assuming) after Viserys was already dead? If there was any chance of it being a negative surely she would have just chosen a different name.

She did, true she could've name Viserion after her father or another male ancestor or relative.

 

[harlequinade]

It was actually Jorah's idea to go up there...

Wasn't it Tyrion who suggested bringing Cersei one of the wights?

Maybe Jorah secretly wanted Jon to die Beyond the Wall because he's jealous of Dany getting closer to Jon?

I don't think so. Jorah seems to even be encouraging the match slightly and he seems to be genuinely fond of Jon

I thought that Emilia did a pretty good job of subtlety selling Dany's sadness. And Jon realizing it instantly (since Dany flat-out told him that she saw her dragons as her children) was a nice touch.

But perhaps they could have been more overt/spent more time on it.

I didn't hate Clarke's acting but Glen and the guy who plays Tormund blew her out of the water especially Glen with how Jorah instantly glanced at her with such sadness. That reminded the audience of the connection she has with dragons far more than whatever Clarke was doing in that moment. Her showing pride, trying to hide tears in front of Jon and shaking her head in later scene was good acting, though.

 

[Loki882]

It was actually Jorah's idea to go up there...

And do some of you genuinely hate the show this much but keep watching it? or just like to point out the flaws? Not being a jerk, seriously asking.. I think the writing sucks too, but damn i enjoy the show... seems like y'all despise it.

No, I don't despise it. There's still some good stuff here. But for a show that used to be so amazing, and based off of such interesting source material, the drop-off has been disappointing to say the least.

Me personally, I watch it for the good stuff, and because I'm a completist. when I start something, I like to finish it.

But I don't believe in "you don't like it, so just don't watch" because I feel like that almost gives the creators a pass. Instead of calling out what you think the problems are, you just leave and then only the die hards remain. And it becomes little more than an echo chamber.

Which in a way isn't fair to the writers/creators either.

 

[Voltron]

I don't think so. Jorah seems to even be encouraging the match slightly and he seems to be genuinely fond of Jon

Then why go on a suicide mission? Jorah knows he has no chance with Dany whatsover. But then again he loves Dany so much he wants to see her happy with someone better than Daario.

I didn't hate Clarke's acting but Glen and the guy who plays Tormund blew her out of the water especially Glen with how Jorah instantly glanced at her with such sadness. That reminded the audience of the connection she has with dragons far more than whatever Clarke was doing in that moment. Her showing pride, trying to hide tears in front of Jon and shaking her head in later scene was good acting, though.

Dany/Clarke looked stunned-shocked and the sadness didn't hit her yet IMO. They really should've shown Dany mourning Viserion back in Eastwatch.

 

[Reek]

Wasn't it Tyrion who suggested bringing Cersei one of the wights?

he never actually said hey lets go north of the wall. but sure i guess... regardless.... my point is Jon isn't the idiot who came up with this plan.

 

[Mjölnir]

There was an outdoor scene between Dany and Jon in an earlier episode where she explicitly just mentions Rhaegal and Viserion, not Drogon.

Also, I was just expecting a little more emotion from Dany (where it didn't have to be overt) because I recall this scene in an earlier season. If she's visibly distressed in that gif, then imagine if one of them died.

I actually liked that when one of her children actually died she was much more subdued. That gives the difference of panic when they were in danger, as in the gif, and just dying inside when one of them died.

 

[Voltron]

I actually liked that when one of her children actually died she was much more subdued. That gives the difference of panic when they were in danger, as in the gif, and just dying inside when one of them died.

True, plus I guess it was the director or the writers that probably instructed Emelia to react to Viserion's death that way.

 

[Voltron]

he never actually said hey lets go north of the wall. but sure i guess... regardless.... my point is Jon isn't the idiot who came up with this plan.

It was the writer/s t:.