Comics Sensational Spiderman 29# *potential spoilers*

[Themanofbat]

I decided to stick with Spidey and guess what? ASM is pretty damn riveting to me, and I love the fact that Aguirre-Sacasa taps Spidey's past and *gasps* continuity to tell his stories. What more do you want?

Good stories and respect to continuity is all anyone should ever want.

 

[USMC]

Do you even read Spider-Man comics anymore?

Or do you just base your opinions on internet chatroom blather?

Just asking....

The latter, pretty much.


How's life treating ya, TMOB?

 

[DACrowe]

Ah but in continuity Liz NEVER blamed Spider-Man for her problems (that was Betty). By Spectacular #200 she had come to terms with Harry and was grateful that Spidey was there to save her family's lives several times in a row from her husband. She also knew how evil Harry could be and how evil Norman was. She blamed Norma nfor Harry and never trusted him. She went to Peter for help and after Spider-Man saved her son from being kidnapped by mad grandpa TWICE, even the screwed up son looked at Spider-Man like a family friend. As I said he might as well have been Uncle Spider-Man to them. And Liz and Pete have always been on good terms, look how good they were about taking care of Flash after his coma as a partnership.

And as with Flash why can't they handle her character with....oh damn. Nevermind then.

 

[stillanerd]

Ah but in continuity Liz NEVER blamed Spider-Man for her problems (that was Betty). By Spectacular #200 she had come to terms with Harry and was grateful that Spidey was there to save her family's lives several times in a row from her husband. She also knew how evil Harry could be and how evil Norman was. She blamed Norma nfor Harry and never trusted him. She went to Peter for help and after Spider-Man saved her son from being kidnapped by mad grandpa TWICE, even the screwed up son looked at Spider-Man like a family friend. As I said he might as well have been Uncle Spider-Man to them. And Liz and Pete have always been on good terms, look how good they were about taking care of Flash after his coma as a partnership.

And as with Flash why can't they handle her character with....oh damn. Nevermind then.

Exactly. One can understand that the reason Marvel is having Liz Allen be upset at Peter because they wanted to emphasize yet again that Spider-Man fued with the Green Goblin has been costly, and yet AGAIN want to emphasize that Peter voluntarilly revealing his identity to the world was a mistake--as though anyone with half a brain couldn't have figured that out, least of all Spider-Tool if he actually used that intelligence he supposedly has. If anything, it makes far more sense for Betty Brant to be upset with Peter. After all, she blamed Spidey for the death of her brother, her husband was brainwash and framed by the Hobgoblin (another indirect consequence of Norman Osborn) and was later killed. (Of course, maybe she'll be the one that will write the tell-all book that PAD has planned, so I guees her reaction will be addressed at some future date.)

 

[Willowhugger]

Oddly, I still don't think it's a mistake.

Frankly, no matter how you slice it, Peter deserves better than to live in fear of cowards like the Chameleon.

 

[bbf2]

I didn't pick this up yet, but.....

The Chameleon already knew who he was! Do they address this? Remember when he went and attacked MJ and she knocked him out with a lamp?

 

[Lt. Figgnuts]

I didn't mind Liz' reaction all too terribly much.

I'm pretty much in agreement with TMOB. Even if she never showed signs of disliking Spidey before, it's completely understandable that she might be upset now that she knows that Peter and Spidey are one and the same, if only because he's been lying to everyone since he was in high school.

One would think she has no reason to be upset with Peter, and perhaps she logically doesn't. However, human emotion is rarely logical.

As far as the Norman thing goes...does Liz KNOW that Norman only targeted Peter to try and take over New York's organized crime? It's silly to assume that she knows all of Norman's crazy machinations. For all she knows, Norman had some wacky legitimate reason for going after Peter.

The Harry thing is sort of understandable. She knew he was unstable.

In all, I don't think it was terribly out of character and all, and overall I thought it was a decent issue.

 

[SpideyInATree]

Read this yesterday. Definitely a great and interesting start to this new arc. I liked the beginning with Chameleon threatening Molten Man with Electro, definitely some cool points there.

I liked Sacasa's writing a lot in this issue. He was really showing how conflicted Peter is becoming about this whole thing and it was good to see a writier utilizing the new suit while we still have it, haha.

But who was that that said they shouldn't go after MJ? Last time I checked they weren't JUST going after MJ. That Scarecrow battle and Will O The Wisp battle was directed at Spider-Man/Peter. Swarm is directing at Mary Jane. Why? Because she's Spider-Man's wife and everybody in the world knows that now. What is so hard to see about that?

And what's up with the Liz Allan reaction bashing? I think, of all people, she has the right to react like that. Look what happened to her husband. Not Spider-Man's fault per say. But the woman STILL has a point. Look at all the death he has brought into peoples lives. If there were no Spider-Man at all Uncle Ben would still be alive as well. Everyone would be alive! Captain Stacy. Gwen Stacy. Ned Leeds. Harry Osborn. The list could go on and on and on. So, where is it out of character?

But, overall, a fantastic issue. I liked the artwork a lot in this book, it goes well. And how about that Black Cat/Puma part? Seems like Felicia still has a thing for "Spider-Man" even though she's with Puma.

 

[The Joker]

Not Spider-Man's fault per say.

So, where is it out of character?

You just answered your own question.

Spider-Man cannot and should not be blamed for the evil doings of others. That's Jonah Jameson logic. And Liz should know that, since she has a first hand view of who and what the Osborns are. Nobody made Norman or Harry do what they did, least of all Peter.

As for Uncle Ben, you said he'd be alive if there was no Spider-Man. How do you figure that?? It was because Peter did nothing that Uncle Ben did die. That burglar would have robbed the Parkers whether Spidey was there or not, because nobody would have stopped him.

 

[SpideyInATree]

You just answered your own question.

Spider-Man cannot and should not be blamed for the evil doings of others. That's Jonah Jameson logic. And Liz should know that, since she has a first hand view of who and what the Osborns are. Nobody made Norman or Harry do what they did, least of all Peter.

As for Uncle Ben, you said he'd be alive if there was no Spider-Man. How do you figure that?? It was because Peter did nothing that Uncle Ben did die. That burglar would have robbed the Parkers whether Spidey was there or not, because nobody would have stopped him.

I didn't answer my own question. As readers we know that it isn't Spider-Man/Peter Parker's fault but to someone like Liz Allan who's just finding out right now who he is...well, what do you think she's going to do. It's like grieving for Harry all over again, I'm sure.

I watched my father die on the living room floor and for many years I blamed God for what happened. Sometimes people lay blame where it wasn't supposed to be put. But it's part of grieving and when you get over things you start to see the bigger picture.

The world is out of our hands and we can't control it. Spider-Man can't and neither can Liz Allan. But she's still going to be angry with Peter because she probably feels he could have done something else to stop everything.

I don't see it out of character at all.

 

[The Joker]

I didn't answer my own question. As readers we know that it isn't Spider-Man/Peter Parker's fault but to someone like Liz Allan who's just finding out right now who he is...well, what do you think she's going to do. It's like grieving for Harry all over again, I'm sure.

No, Liz knows exactly what happened with Harry. She knows why he became what he did, and what her father in law is too. Everyone knows that he's the Green Goblin.

Suddenly blaming Spider-Man for that is stupid. So Spider-Man is someone she knows, that doesn't instantly make him responsible for Harry's death. Harry tried to kill him. And Liz knows this.

The only reason they had her blaming him for all the deaths was simply for cheap dramatic effect.

I watched my father die on the living room floor and for many years I blamed God for what happened. Sometimes people lay blame where it wasn't supposed to be put. But it's part of grieving and when you get over things you start to see the bigger picture.

I'm sorry to hear that.

But you can't really compare the two situations. Your dad didn't put himself in a dangerous situation like Harry did, which cost him his life, and nearly his own son's too.

Most people blame god for the loss of a loved one. Who else is there to blame since God is supposed to be in control of all that happens here, and is supposed to love us all.

The world is out of our hands and we can't control it. Spider-Man can't and neither can Liz Allan.

Exactly.

But she's still going to be angry with Peter because she probably feels he could have done something else to stop everything.

Nonsense.

How many times was Harry 'cured' only to relapse into his Goblin persona again?? What could Spider-Man have done to stop that??

Harry chose to save Peter from a deadly situation he created.

Liz knows all of this. And just because she knows a close friend is actually Spider-Man is no reason to start blaming it all on him.

Its stupid writing.

I don't see it out of character at all.

Well we'll just have to agree to disagree my friend.

 

[SpideyInATree]

Nonsense.

How many times was Harry 'cured' only to relapse into his Goblin persona again?? What could Spider-Man have done to stop that??

Harry chose to save Peter from a deadly situation he created.

Liz knows all of this. And just because she knows a close friend is actually Spider-Man is no reason to start blaming it all on him.

Its stupid writing.

Well we'll just have to agree to disagree my friend.

This is just the way I see it.

All that she basically says, while holding a picture of her, Peter, and Harry, is "Oh, Peter. All the death you brought into our lives...".

My first thought wasn't, "Oh my God! What bad writing, it's so out of character for Liz to say that!". Of course she knows that Norman Osborn was insane and that it caused her husband to follow just the same path. But she DIDN'T know who Spider-Man was until...well, right then and there, heh. And she found out that Spider-Man was Peter Parker, Harry's best friend.

Yeah, she's going to feel a little upset about it all. Pete could have stopped being Spider-Man, I'm sure she's thought that. Because in her place I'd think the same thing. How come he just didn't stop being Spider-Man? Why did he have to keep continuing and just stop and be Peter Parker, Harry's friend.

As readers we're supposed to probably feel a certain way and say, "Well, it's NOT Spider-Man's fault!". I'm guessing we'll probably get a little more in depth with this later in this arc. I don't think we'll be leaving it like this with Liz Allan, that is unless Molten Man offs her.

 

[3dman27]

Seriously, we haven't seen MUCH of Pete's friends ' reactions... so where's the hypocrisy?



And as I stated... she probably blames Harry's death on Peter... you know, her REAL husband

So learn your facts before you start spewing at the mouth. It's obvious that you aren't giving this story a chance, but some of us are, so let us enjoy it.



Hahahahahahahahahahaha.... Peter IS Spider-Man, so if they have a "beef" with Spider-Man, then they'll have a "beef" with Peter Parker.

What a maroon.

with pete spidey yes bun not his family

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

I thought it was a pretty solid issue. I really dont have any problem with the way Liz acted....lots of times, when people suddenly find out someone they think of as a friend has essentially been lying to them for years (in this case, over a decade), they tend to react in a negative manner. If nothing else, i can see Liz being angry/sad over the fact that Peter didnt trust her enough to confide in her.

At any rate, i LOVE what Sacasa is doing in regards to bringing back more of the B-list villains. My only beef is that we're not being brought up to speed on what happened to any of them since they were last seen.

On the letters page, the editor promises all will be explained regarding Chameleon as the story unfolds, but im wondering why Will 'o Wisp was working for him. He was never really a villain, per se, but a victim of mind control by Jonas Harrow and later Roxxon Oil....last i remember, he and Spider-Man were team mates on the Outlaws, and then he later worked with Ben Reilly...

Same with Molten Man. Im racking my brain, but the last time i recall seeing him was when he disappeared under water during The Gathering Of Five storyline...he was also being mind controlled...anyone know of any appearances after that?

Im hoping (but not holding my breath) that we get a summary of their doings as the current story unfolds.

Still a top-notch issue though.

 

[Rambo, John J]

First of all, we don't know if the Molten Man will do anything to her (other than kidnap her... maybe to keep an eye on her). He says so himself he's not evil anymore (or trying hard not to be), so he'll probably be the ace in the hole at the end of the tale.

And secondly, because Peter is Spider-Man, she probablt blames him for the death of her husband... geez people, she knew that Gwen, a good friend of her late husband, AND HER HUSBAND, died because of their proximity to Peter/Spider-Man.

And I didn't think that Spidey was actually "stunned" to know a villain named the Scarecrow.... even though they've only fought ONCE before (in an issue of Untold Tales of Spider-Man, of all things)... and the Will O the Wisp IS a joke villain. Has anyone ever taken this guy seriously???

I thought it was a great issue, and it's nice to see some type of connection with the past where Spidey is concerned. And again we see some apprehension towards Spidey and his suit.

Great stuff...

Glad to know i'm not the only one that loved this issue. I've said before and i'll say again, Roberto shows that he does get these characters. In my opinion it's unfortunate that his hands are tied by the whole CW thing but what'reyehgonnado? And i'm relieved to know that he'll be explaining the Chameleons return next issue.

 

[USMC]

This is just the way I see it.

All that she basically says, while holding a picture of her, Peter, and Harry, is "Oh, Peter. All the death you brought into our lives...".

My first thought wasn't, "Oh my God! What bad writing, it's so out of character for Liz to say that!". Of course she knows that Norman Osborn was insane and that it caused her husband to follow just the same path. But she DIDN'T know who Spider-Man was until...well, right then and there, heh. And she found out that Spider-Man was Peter Parker, Harry's best friend.

Yeah, she's going to feel a little upset about it all. Pete could have stopped being Spider-Man, I'm sure she's thought that. Because in her place I'd think the same thing. How come he just didn't stop being Spider-Man? Why did he have to keep continuing and just stop and be Peter Parker, Harry's friend.

As readers we're supposed to probably feel a certain way and say, "Well, it's NOT Spider-Man's fault!". I'm guessing we'll probably get a little more in depth with this later in this arc. I don't think we'll be leaving it like this with Liz Allan, that is unless Molten Man offs her.

I can see what you're saying. It's an intital reaction, that's all. Like it or not, Peter HAS been involved in all of those deaths in one way or another. True, these people have no one to blame in the end but themselves (the villains, not the innocent bystanders), but let's face it: women are emotional. Yeah, flame me for saying that, but it's true. Liz's reaction makes sense simply because it doesn't make sense.

I would only hope that she comes around pretty quickly either from having a heart to heart with Pete or MJ or even have Aunt May (who, in the last few years , has wanted to repair Spider-Man's reputation) give some kind of a press conference or published letter about the unmasking. I think of all the people in the Spidey-verse that should be mad about Spider-Man's identity, it should be Aunt May!!! Her husband is dead DIRECTLY because or Peter! Yet she forgave him AFTER her inital shock and hurt about his lying to her.

I hope (and I think this would make a great issue) that Aunt May could emerge as the voice of all of the people in Peter's life who feel somewhat betrayed by Peter coming out of the "secret identity closet".

Anyhow, as has already been said, hopefully Liz will come to her senses and not just be written one-dimensionally about the unmasking, ala Flash (ARRGGHH!)...

 

[Dangerous]

First of all, we don't know if the Molten Man will do anything to her (other than kidnap her... maybe to keep an eye on her). He says so himself he's not evil anymore (or trying hard not to be), so he'll probably be the ace in the hole at the end of the tale.

And secondly, because Peter is Spider-Man, she probablt blames him for the death of her husband... geez people, she knew that Gwen, a good friend of her late husband, AND HER HUSBAND, died because of their proximity to Peter/Spider-Man.

And I didn't think that Spidey was actually "stunned" to know a villain named the Scarecrow.... even though they've only fought ONCE before (in an issue of Untold Tales of Spider-Man, of all things)... and the Will O the Wisp IS a joke villain. Has anyone ever taken this guy seriously???

I thought it was a great issue, and it's nice to see some type of connection with the past where Spidey is concerned. And again we see some apprehension towards Spidey and his suit.

Great stuff...

I agree

'Scarecrow' made me laugh at how crap he was (in a good way) as did the way Spidey treated Will O the Wisp by not remembering him.

Also I like the way this book is written, it's as if Spidey now fully understands that unmasking was a mistake / the wrong thing to do, as most people here can appreciate, and that is the way the book is
now being written.
From this perspective SSM at least meets a lot of us half way and from there makes best of current status quo, which I do appreciate.
To me this makes it read/feel like the one true SM book of present.

What I don’t appreciate is how Crain/ Medina keep alternating art chores per book, cant one of these guys manage an arc alone? Oh well, I’m not gonna bemoan em too much as they both Rule.

 

[SpideyInATree]

I agree

'Scarecrow' made me laugh at how crap he was (in a good way) as did the way Spidey treated Will O the Wisp by not remembering him.

Also I like the way this book is written, it's as if Spidey now fully understands that unmasking was a mistake / the wrong thing to do, as most people here can appreciate, and that is the way the book is
now being written.
From this perspective SSM at least meets a lot of us half way and from there makes best of current status quo, which I do appreciate.
To me this makes it read/feel like the one true SM book of present.

What I don’t appreciate is how Crain/ Medina keep alternating art chores per book, cant one of these guys manage an arc alone? Oh well, I’m not gonna bemoan em too much as they both Rule.

Peter was already second guessing his decision in the pages of Amazing Spider-Man when he was sort of "forced" to fight Captain America.

This isn't anything new.

 

[Dangerous]

Peter was already second guessing his decision in the pages of Amazing Spider-Man when he was sort of "forced" to fight Captain America.

This isn't anything new.

I know but in ASM everything is just JMS trying to create plot devices and it comes over all synthetic and fake/inferior feeling just as Spidey himself in the book does.

 

[DACrowe]

My problem was ever since Spidey joined the Avengers he is being written as a rookie. Just not in fights but in character. He stupidly supports a law he knows is wrong because he wants good standing with the law and is willingly the sidekick of another hero to get public good graces and a good life. These were mistakes that Spidey made in the first 20 issues or so of Amazing (like trying to join the Fantastic four) but learned from. Now he is acting like the biggest dolt i nthe world and he is supposedly on what his 12th year or more as a superhero now?!?!

 

[TheVileOne]

If MJ dies, Black Cat will never ever be Spider-man's long-term lover.

She will simply be his booty call ala Elektra for Daredevil.

 

[SpideyInATree]

I know but in ASM everything is just JMS trying to create plot devices and it comes over all synthetic and fake/inferior feeling just as Spidey himself in the book does.

Tis but your opinion I don't really see what's so fake/inferior about ASM # 534.

 

[Captivated]

Was I the only one who thought that MJ's reaction - as portrayed by the writer here - was cliche and kind of ridiculous?

Come on... when they DISCUSSED his revealing his secret ID, she KNEW from experience what that would mean. Life would be different for HER as well as for him. These are not "stalkers" we're talking about (although some ordinary guy almost shot them the day of the reveal)... these are SUPER villains that will be targeting her! She KNOWS what that's like... As recently as MKSM she talked Peter OUT of revealing his ID because of these isssues.

The whole, "I've got to chase my career no matter what" at THIS point sounds a little like.... "stupid girl is going to go down into the basement to investigate funny noises when a lunatic mass murderer has been dissecting her neighbors..." crazy.

It's also amazing how much the faces here sucked compared to the rest of the art.

 

[Blackredens]

i like the way they're setting up black cat and SM to get back together when they get rid of that pesky MJ person. i could only read one letter in the back. as soon as they said "you'll see how much he loves his aunt and wife soon, TRUST me" all i could think was "they're gonna kill MJ; theyre gonna kill MJ."

ARGH! oh well. go black cat.

I read that same thing and all I could think was about time!

I heard a rumor that their thinking of having Mary Jane have an affair with Tony, which would be interesting, and diffrent then just killing her but that sounds far fetched so it's probably just that a Rumor, (then again so was Gwen's affair)

 

[Captivated]

I read that same thing and all I could think was about time!

I heard a rumor that their thinking of having Mary Jane have an affair with Tony, which would be interesting, and diffrent then just killing her but that sounds far fetched so it's probably just that a Rumor, (then again so was Gwen's affair)

Yeah... a rumor YOU'RE trying to start. Dream on. Won't happen.

With some of their OTHER boneheaded decisions, I think they actually thought the fans would like it... surprize, surprize. But screwing up Peter and MJ... inspite of what JQ says, he KNOWS most fans would HATE it. (You're in the minority kid - sorry.)

Peter is not a playboy (never has been). Even when he was dating BC he thought "marriage." Felicia will always be special to him, but he's totally devoted to MJ.