Superman Returns Sensitive Superman turned people off - LA Weekly

Whack Arnolds said:
No, there is virtually only one true way to do Superman CORRECTLY. The other charcaters have different takes, especially Batman. But Superman is black and white, in terms of complexity of character, and there is too much negative vibe from fans to consider it a classic representation of the character.

I disagree. If there was only one way to do Superman, then every interpretation would virtually be the same. But they're not. For example, there are those that think Superman is the real person, and that Clark Kent is a role he plays. Then there are those that say Clark Kent is the real person and that he pretends to be Superman.
 
The Sage said:
I disagree. If there was only one way to do Superman, then every interpretation would virtually be the same. But they're not. For example, there are those that think Superman is the real person, and that Clark Kent is a role he plays. Then there are those that say Clark Kent is the real person and that he pretends to be Superman.
I'm not talking about the little details. I'm talking about the big picture, and how he is presented as a character. Superman isn't filled with angst as seen in Returns. He doesn't spy on his ex-girlfriend, nor does he pout and cry. And with those ideal, classic mid-western values... he certainly doesn't knock up women and leave for five years w/o telling anyone.
 
I knew singer was gonna gay up superman. "Oh im soo sad" this wasnt superman it was Emo-Man
 
Whack Arnolds said:
I'm not talking about the little details. I'm talking about the big picture, and how he is presented as a character. Superman isn't filled with angst as seen in Returns. He doesn't spy on his ex-girlfriend, nor does he pout and cry. And with those ideal, classic mid-western values... he certainly doesn't knock up women and leave for five years w/o telling anyone.

Interesting. In Kingdom Come, he got angry and pouted when the world chose a darker champion over him, and he went into exile for ten years. And in Superman: Exile, he...well went to exile and didn't tell anyone. In For Tomorrow, he was filled with angst because his wife was missing, and he had adopted a more stern attitude. In Birthright, he was so depressed by the world's turn on him that he nearly gave up his crusade.

And Superman has cried plenty of times in comics and other interpretations.
 
The Sage said:
Interesting. In Kingdom Come, he got angry and pouted when the world chose a darker champion over him, and he went into exile for ten years. And in Superman: Exile, he...well went to exile and didn't tell anyone. In For Tomorrow, he was filled with angst because his wife was missing, and he had adopted a more stern attitude.

And Superman has cried plenty of times in comics and other interpretations.
Yes, but Superman in "For Tommorrow" is also extremely macho, manly and up front with his thought and feelings. He doesn't pout, and keep stuff to himself. He shares it, because Superman is the most honest man on the planet.

Yet you still didn't address the other aspects of what I said. And yes, I know Superman has cried before. But he doesn't go about it by pouting and looking depressed for the whole story. When he finally cries, he cries like a man. He doesn't pout with a sniveling upper lip, like a baby back biatch. And how in the hell can you compare an elseworld novel, Kingdom Come, and try to use it as your argument in terms of the classical representation of Superman in both the fans and mainstream's eyes? Apples and Oranges.
 
The Sage said:
Interesting. In Kingdom Come, he got angry and pouted when the world chose a darker champion over him, and he went into exile for ten years. And in Superman: Exile, he...well went to exile and didn't tell anyone. In For Tomorrow, he was filled with angst because his wife was missing, and he had adopted a more stern attitude. In Birthright, he was so depressed by the world's turn on him that he nearly gave up his crusade.

And Superman has cried plenty of times in comics and other interpretations.

Kingdom Come is one of the biggest Marvel stories parading around as a DC comic with the Trinity.

Exile follows Superman after he executed three people. The man was obviously distraught, and that is still seen today. Heck! He went to counseling for it:O a while back.

For Tomorrow...well...that story is very similiar in tone and scope to SR...and it is HATED by fans!!!! HATED!!!! I love the artwork, but that's all it has for the most part.

Birthright is a good story and even with the angst (and the moofooing soul vision), at the end of the story it's resolved and Superman is Superman....just a Superman with soul vision:down

Singer's SR is just like For Tomorrow. It's wonderful to look out. If you look deep enough you may find some value, but by the last page you feel like...WTF. I suggest you re-read FT....then take a look at the thread I created about it in the comics section.
 
Whack Arnolds said:
Yes, but Superman in "For Tommorrow" is also extremely macho, manly and up front with his thought and feelings. He doesn't pout, and keep stuff to himself. He shares it, because Superman is the most honest man on the planet.

LOL...you also need to read FT again. He was all those things and a bit more:)
 
You don't even leave SR with a feeling of hope. It feels like a wanna be Empire Strikes Back.
 
Fred_Fury said:
I knew singer was gonna gay up superman. "Oh im soo sad" this wasnt superman it was Emo-Man




You realize he was sad over a girl right?
 
The only thing Superman should be sensitive too IS KRYPTONITE!!!
 
Whack Arnolds said:
I am, and it sucks.

FT is SR...I'm not saying it sucks, but the tone and scope is very, very similiar. Supes is real EMO in that too, and very confused about his identity. LOL...he is also having some problems with Lois.

Man...the religious symbolism. UGH....that is just LIKE SR though.
 
Whack Arnolds said:
Yes, but Superman in "For Tommorrow" is also extremely macho, manly and up front with his thought and feelings. He doesn't pout, and keep stuff to himself. He shares it, because Superman is the most honest man on the planet.

Whack Arnolds said:
Yet you still didn't address the other aspects of what I said.

Okay. Was I okay with Superman listening in on Lois' conversation? No. But I understood why he did it. He wanted to know how she felt about him. It's like Batman leaving Ra's to die on the train. Did I agree with it? No, because Batman wouldn't let anyone, not even his worse enemies, die. But because he saved his life before and it came back and bit him, I understood why.

Does that answer your question? :)

Whack Arnolds said:
And yes, I know Superman has cried before. But he doesn't go about it by pouting and looking depressed for the whole story.

And I don't recall him looking depressed throughout the entire duration of Superman Returns either.

Whack Arnolds said:
When he finally cries, he cries like a man.

And how exactly does a man cry?

Whack Arnolds said:
He doesn't pout with a sniveling upper lip, like a baby back biatch.

And I don't recall him doing that much pouting and crying in Superman Returns either.

Whack Arnolds said:
And how in the hell can you compare an elseworld novel, Kingdom Come, and try to use it as your argument in terms of the classical representation of Superman in both the fans and mainstream's eyes? Apples and Oranges.

Well because for some reason, Kingdom Come is considered one of the best interpretations of Superman, bar none. It's ranked as being on the level of Dark Knight Returns (though I'd rank Kingdom Come higher). I rank it as one of my three favorite Superman stories. And, because just like Kingdom Come, Superman Returns, just like any superhero movie or television show, is an elseworlds.
 
charl_huntress said:
Kingdom Come is one of the biggest Marvel stories parading around as a DC comic with the Trinity.

Exile follows Superman after he executed three people. The man was obviously distraught, and that is still seen today. Heck! He went to counseling for it:O a while back.

For Tomorrow...well...that story is very similiar in tone and scope to SR...and it is HATED by fans!!!! HATED!!!! I love the artwork, but that's all it has for the most part.

Birthright is a good story and even with the angst (and the moofooing soul vision), at the end of the story it's resolved and Superman is Superman....just a Superman with soul vision:down

Singer's SR is just like For Tomorrow. It's wonderful to look out. If you look deep enough you may find some value, but by the last page you feel like...WTF. I suggest you re-read FT....then take a look at the thread I created about it in the comics section.

It's been a while since I've read For Tomorrow, and I thought it was okay, though I've only read it once. I'm gonna wait for the second half to come out on paperback before purchasing the entire story.

And I'll check your thread out too.
 
The Sage said:
Okay. Was I okay with Superman listening in on Lois' conversation? No. But I understood why he did it. He wanted to know how she felt about him. It's like Batman leaving Ra's to die on the train. Did I agree with it? No, because Batman wouldn't let anyone, not even his worse enemies, die. But because he saved his life before and it came back and bit him, I understood why.
But Batman has killed many times in the comics.

And I don't recall him looking depressed throughout the entire duration of Superman Returns either.
Oh he most certainly did. Oh, I forgot... you can't tell cause they cut all the scenes with actual acting, cause Brandon Routh can't do that. :O



And how exactly does a man cry?
Do you know the difference between pouting and crying?



And I don't recall him doing that much pouting and crying in Superman Returns either.
See after he SPIES, something honest men, even more noble men like Superman, are known to do...

He flies away pouting.



Well because for some reason, Kingdom Come is considered one of the best interpretations of Superman, bar none. It's ranked as being on the level of Dark Knight Returns (though I'd rank Kingdom Come higher). I rank it as one of my three favorite Superman stories. And, because just like Kingdom Come, Superman Returns, just like any superhero movie or television show, is an elseworlds.
No, Kingdom Come isn't "classic" Superman. It isn't a basis to compare for a story that TRIES to be classic Superman, and fails miserebly at it.
 
Whack Arnolds said:
But Batman has killed many times in the comics.

And Superman has spied on people's conversations before in comics.

Whack Arnolds said:
Oh he most certainly did. Oh, I forgot... you can't tell cause they cut all the scenes with actual acting, cause Brandon Routh can't do that. :O

Well that's objectional. I personally thought he delivered on the facial expressions.

Whack Arnolds said:
Do you know the difference between pouting and crying?

Do you know how a man cries?

Whack Arnolds said:
See after he SPIES, something honest men, even more noble men like Superman, are known to do...

Do you consider King David a noble man? Or what about Martin Luther King?

Whack Arnolds said:
He flies away pouting.

Yeah, once. How many times did he do that?

Whack Arnolds said:
No, Kingdom Come isn't "classic" Superman. It isn't a basis to compare for a story that TRIES to be classic Superman, and fails miserebly at it.

Umm, that was the point of Kingdom Come. It was about Superman finding himself and becoming the man he was before. Trying to regain his instinct of right and wrong. And in the end, he did. He was "classic" Superman.
 
The Sage said:
Okay. Was I okay with Superman listening in on Lois' conversation? No. But I understood why he did it. He wanted to know how she felt about him.
Of course you understood, in nearly 70 years of publication, how many times do you think Superman has used his X-RAY vision and super-hearing to eavesdrop on personal friends? 100x? 1000x? 10000x?
It's like Batman leaving Ra's to die on the train. Did I agree with it? No, because Batman wouldn't let anyone, not even his worse enemies, die. But because he saved his life before and it came back and bit him, I understood why.
I really feel for Singer that his film is under such scrutiny, and yet Nolan can get away with all kinds of inconsistancies in characterization.
And how exactly does a man cry?
I'd say a man would well up, but nary a tear would hit his cheek. If the haters look closely, they'll be hard pressed to find an actual tear on Routh's face, as opposed to Reeve who bawls as he circles the globe turning back time. Not that there's anything wrong with that, I don't mind an emotionally balanced Superman.
Well because for some reason, Kingdom Come is considered one of the best interpretations of Superman, bar none. It's ranked as being on the level of Dark Knight Returns (though I'd rank Kingdom Come higher). I rank it as one of my three favorite Superman stories. And, because just like Kingdom Come, Superman Returns, just like any superhero movie or television show, is an elseworlds.
:up:, hell SR is better than FT, and that's continuity!
 
The WB is now using the stike as an excuse to move or can the franchise. Smart move. They need a reboot badly. Cut that awful cast and send Singer packing.
 
The WB is now using the stike as an excuse to move or can the franchise. Smart move. They need a reboot badly. Cut that awful cast and send Singer packing.
I certainly hope that's the case.
 

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