Superman Returns Unknown Routh is new face of Superman

Matt said:
But Routh did NOT win the part fair and square. Singer made it very clear from day one he would not even consider anyone who is well known. And therefore we could have very well missed out on the best choice, due to that closed minded nature. If Singer had real auditions, considered everyone, and Routh still won it, it would be a different story...but Singer himself has said that is not the case.
Singer has also said that he viewed all the audition tapes that were available to Ratner and McG. So out of all those, which included knowns and unknowns, he couldn't have seen anything in Routh?

And why should he be required to consider a known anyway? Because it's safe? Because it placates people like you? Or maybe he trusted in the ability of the unknown to prove himself. But of course, some people can't actually wait to see a guy do his thing before declaring him a failure.
 
Matt said:
No, no matter what happens...we will never really know if Routh was the best choice or not.


My goodness....does this rule not apply to Batman...or Spiderman? Or ANY role ever?
Code:
 
Halle Berry being a known high profile actress didn'y mean squat with Catwoman, did it?
 
So far Routh has convinced me that he can handle this role well. I'm definately glad we got an unkown instead of an established actor. It'll be good to see the film finally so that we can see how Routh performs in each role of the Man of Steel.
 
Matt said:
Its not a cop out at all. To simply reject an ACTOR wanting to audition for the part because he has worked before is closed minded and could very well have cost us the best Superman.
Or it could give someone who wouldn't normally get noticed because he gets pushed aside for "name" actors a chance to prove himself.
 
Matt said:
Singer said he would only take an unknown.


The reason being,

'Well known actors bring baggage to the role'

Once again, it's all about trying to make the audience believe Superman is really flying.....not Josh Hartnet in a superman costume with dazzy special effects.

I mean, do you really think we got the best possible Anakin Skywalker availible? Or the best Spiderman availible? Or even the best Lex Luthor availible?

It's a very gray area.
 
Matt said:
Singer said he would only take an unknown.

Did he? I honestly don't remember the quote. I do remember him saying that he went with a unknown because superman should "come out of your collective memory" and not identify that person with another character.
 
Agentdemon said:
Did he? I honestly don't remember the quote. I do remember him saying that he went with a unknown because superman should "come out of your collective memory" and not identify that person with another character.


Thank you.

Someone like Caviezal was just too old for this Superman Franchise....plain and simple. He would have been perfect back in 2000.
 
Agentdemon said:
Did he? I honestly don't remember the quote. I do remember him saying that he went with a unknown because superman should "come out of your collective memory" and not identify that person with another character.

He did actually say he was always going with an unknown. He even said again today in that interview on mtv overdrive
 
Pickle-El said:
My goodness....does this rule not apply to Batman...or Spiderman? Or ANY role ever?
Code:
True. The only thing that really matters is how the chosen actor plays the role. If he's good, then great. If he's bad, then that's unfortunate. There is absolutely no point in debating the what-ifs particularly when we haven't even seen Routh handle the role.

I was unhappy with Affleck's performance as Daredevil but I gave him the benefit of the doubt until I saw the movie. But I guess that would be too much to ask for some people.
 
BareKnucklez said:
Have we forgotten the baggage that Routh has??? Fired from a soap for bad acting, only had a handfull of tv roles mostly smallparts, and mostly played characters who liked the same sex.
Oh, and he was on MTV for a short stint... That alone takes anyone off my list for possible superman candidates.
So this whole its better to go with an unkown is total b.s...

:rolleyes:

Those roles are all in the past (aside from reruns), but it's time to look to the present and the future.
 
Matt said:
I disagree. A good actor can make you forget they are that actor and see their character.

To an extent. Denzel is a fantastic actor and people always seem him as Denzel, no matter what the role is.
 
.... not 2 me. He's another transformer type of actor. He got game.

so does routh from what I've seen so far.

Now if we're talking Sam Jackson. That's an actor who's hard to transform. His best work i've seen in the past few years was definitely Unbreakable as Mr. Glass. he should play zod.
 
skruloos said:
Singer has also said that he viewed all the audition tapes that were available to Ratner and McG. So out of all those, which included knowns and unknowns, he couldn't have seen anything in Routh?

And why should he be required to consider a known anyway? Because it's safe? Because it placates people like you? Or maybe he trusted in the ability of the unknown to prove himself. But of course, some people can't actually wait to see a guy do his thing before declaring him a failure.

VERY WELL SAID! bravo! :D

was there any question about casting an unknown? i'm sure MOST of the fans, who didn't want Welling, wanted Singer to cast an unknown. as skruloos pointed out, Singer was able to watch all the previous auditions on tapes. and it's not like Singer had only those tapes to go off of. i'm sure he must've auditioned a lot of the best unknowns in person.

Singer said that he needed someone who has Superman and Clark Kent in his everyday mannerisms and personality...and he saw Superman in Routh. i have to agree with him because when i first saw the first batch of Brandon's pictures (before Singer was even attached) i said in my mind "if this guy can beef up, he'd make a great Superman" but the hype disappeared until Singer came back aboard and more unknown names started popping up. i started getting behind a dude named Ryan McPartlin based on his looks (he's an unknown, there wasn't much footage of him) but Routh's name came back into the mix so i was torn between McPartlin and Routh. so when Routh got the role i was extremely happy that it was one of my picks.

anyway, i dunno where i was going with that...but Singer had a lot of resources as far as finding a suitable actor is concerned and if the acting in X1 and X2 is easily some of the best acting in comic book movies, so the dude knows how to cast and work with actors. i mean c'mon...this is the same dude who got Hugh Jackman as 2nd pick for Wolverine, Patrick Stewart as Xavier, Caviezel for his first choice as Cyclops (Marsden took over the role after Caviezel dropped out), and Kevin Spacey as LEX FRIGGIN' LUTHOR!!! out of allllll the actors that everyone wanted for Lex Luthor, Spacey's name has been mentioned the most ever since Burton was on board! how cool is it that Singer had enough sence to listen to the fans and cast the fan favorite for Xavier and the fan favorite for Spacey???

granted...he HAS miscast some people. i don't agree with his casting Halle Berry as Storm or Marsden as Cyclops. Halle doesn't seem like a goddess to me and Marsden doesn't seem like a commanding leader but those are the only 2 people i can fault him for castina and one of them (Marsden) is because Caviezel dropped out. he also got the most important characters casted nicely (for the most part).

i'm running off again so i'll wrap this up but....there's no sense in arguing that Singer SHOULDN'T have picked and unkown and he obviously the Superman in Brandon Routh's personality that he couldn't see in any other of the actors he took a look at. so.....there....:p
 
The Sage said:
To an extent. Denzel is a fantastic actor and people always seem him as Denzel, no matter what the role is.


Sounds Tom Cruise-ish...
 
Anyway Routh is a known actor. Just not by any of us. His friends and family know him very well so they probably won't be too convinced by his performance unless it's really great and captivating. tough to be them, huh...
 
Matt said:
I disagree. A good actor can make you forget they are that actor and see their character.

very true :up:
 
green said:
I love the fired from the soap opera dig, real original. Hey you know what? Brad Pitt was fired from a soap opera too.:o

Don't forget Hilary Swank. She was fired when she did audition for Beverly Hills 90210. And look!! She won 2 Oscars. :p ;)
 
The Sage said:
To an extent. Denzel is a fantastic actor and people always seem him as Denzel, no matter what the role is.

maybe because he's not as good as some people make him out to be? ;)


dont get me wrong i think he's a very fine actor, he's just not John Malkovich or Geoffrey Rush or Robin Williams or Meryl Streep or Cate Blanchett-- those types of actors that are just so versatile and have an almost chameleon-like quality to them.
 
Matt said:
Singer said he would only take an unknown.

And that what he did for the role of Supes with Routh. Many of us never even heard of him when the name first appear. Which mean he was an unknown. ;)
 
Here's one of the major issues you guys are dancing around but not quite nailing.

The iconography of a known, name actor CAN and usually WILL compete with the iconography of a known commodity in the movie. The examples of Harrison Ford as Indiana Jones doesn't work--because Indiana Jones wasn't already an Icon. yes, Ford was already a star with his own filmic personality, but Indiana Jones couldn't counter that with it's own lore and history. It was, for all intents and purposes, a new character.

The problem with hiring a name actor isn't a lack of confidence in their ability to sell the role, it's the potential clash between the history of the actor in the audiences mind battling the history of the character. often the two cannot occupy the same space without the performance suffering, which is the last thing a director wants. Either you watch it and are sucked in by the actor, or you watch it and you're sucked in by the character when it comes to characters like Superman.

Picking a name actor with a storied history and lots of hits under his belt INVITES the kind of personality clash between actor and character that would deaden an audience, no matter how good they are at their craft. Anthony Hopkins was respected in the acting field, but not necessarily all that well known by the public--and Hannibal Lecter wasn't that well known, either. Combined, it was a great match. The divide between the two became utterly transparent.

A good example of the opposite of this was 89's Joker. Jack Nicholson didn't really play the Joker. He played "unhinged Jack Nicholson" and people love "unhinged Jack Nicholson" in white face paint, so there you go. But it wasn't really the joker, it was Jack. It didn't help that his characters name was also JACK. in that case, the character worked because the actor's iconography utterly ABSORBED the characters.

that's something you want to avoid with Superman. Which is why going with an unknown was a good choice. I'm not saying you couldn't have had a name actor in there, but it would have, believe it or not, made the feasibility of the character harder to pull off, because then audiences have to reconcile the actor against the character--something you don't have to do when you're not familiar with the actor at all. I agree a good actor can almost FORCE you to empathize with the character they're playing--but it's easier when there's not a huge amount of iconography behind the character they're playing. Not HISTORY--Iconography.

Matt's argument is sorta specious mostly because he keeps saying that Singer wouldn't test ACTORS, implying that only non-actors got the shot. unknowns are still ACTORS. Singer didn't test STARS, much less SUPERSTARS. But he tested actors. Just because you don't know who they are doesn't mean they don't work at their craft.
 
The Sage said:
To an extent. Denzel is a fantastic actor and people always seem him as Denzel, no matter what the role is.

To be fair though, Denzel does not take much variety in his roles.
 
Matt said:
No, no matter what happens...we will never really know if Routh was the best choice or not.
We can find out if he was a good or great one. Works for me.
 
Fatboy Roberts said:
Matt's argument is sorta specious mostly because he keeps saying that Singer wouldn't test ACTORS, implying that only non-actors got the shot. unknowns are still ACTORS. Singer didn't test STARS, much less SUPERSTARS. But he tested actors. Just because you don't know who they are doesn't mean they don't work at their craft.

Great point, Fatboy. :up:
 

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