Shameless

[antsman41]

Yeah, every (wanna be) parent should understand that babies basically ruin your life for the first 3-5 years. If you can't accept that, don't have them. My girlfriend and I are too selfish to have kids in the given future. I look at my friends (who have a 5 year old and a 1 year old) and see how little amount time they have to themselves to even do stupid things like watch tv and read books... We're both fine in being honest about not wanting any part of that.

V is an idiot and needs to figure her **** out, her kids come first and foremost to any of her happiness. Hell, she should be lucky Kev helps out and does so much. She's got it easy because he is so awesome at being a Dad.

 

[Paradox1]

Funny thing it's usually the dad whose acting like V and the mom acting like Kev. So that is a twist on that real life dynamic.

 

[Marvolo]

I seriously can't believe anybody is on V's side. They are children. Babies at that. She needs a reality check. She wanted this so much so she practically made Kev bang her mom. V ain't all right up stairs. It's almost like she is a Gallagher at this point. I really don't see how Kev is treating her like she's disposable either. She has needs? Ummmm, they have kids now. I think their needs come before her. Every time.

So when you have kids you and your wife arent going to have sex or dinner together or do anything but hover over the kids until they leave the house and head off to college?

Pack and plays are sold for a reason. You stick it in the living room and you put the kids in it and you do what youve got to do. Bouncy seats arent neglectful. Hiring a babysitter for a night isnt neglectful. Letting the kid who has a clean diaper and is fed cry for a while isnt neglectful. The kid will be all right. Kevin acts like if he spends five minutes with V that the bogeyman is gonna swoop up from under the bed and eat the babies. Its absurd.

 

[Maximus One]

Yea, because that's exactly what I just said. If you want to take stuff from what I say and twist it to fit your own argument, that's fine. I don't have to engage in this discussion with you.

 

[Paradox1]

So when you have kids you and your wife arent going to have sex or dinner together or do anything but hover over the kids until they leave the house and head off to college?

Pack and plays are sold for a reason. You stick it in the living room and you put the kids in it and you do what youve got to do. Bouncy seats arent neglectful. Hiring a babysitter for a night isnt neglectful. Letting the kid who has a clean diaper and is fed cry for a while isnt neglectful. The kid will be all right. Kevin acts like if he spends five minutes with V that the bogeyman is gonna swoop up from under the bed and eat the babies. Its absurd.

Once you have kids you stopping living for you and you live for them. This is why there is an empty nest syndrome. Where parents have to reconnect with who they were. Do you realize how much babysitters charge, and those two are poor. Letting a child cry in theory is nice but it is insufferable to hear for some people(including myself) especially babies. They can't tell you what is wrong so there only means of communication is crying.

 

[antsman41]

Marvolo must have 3 nannies and 2 butlers.

 

[Maximus One]

i don't even have kids or ever really want them. But I would knock that dad **** outta the ****ing park just like Kev is doing. Being a dad comes first a husband second. Period. To extrapolate that I'm saying you should never have fun from that statement is something V would do.

 

[Havok83]

Im wondering how many of yall saying **** V have ever actually raised or helped raise a child. Its possible to put your children first without neglecting your spouse. Kevin is completely clueless about V or where she is coming from. And no children do not need to be coddled 24/7. When she wanted to have sex he couldnt even take five minutes to comfort his wife and be there for her. Rather than talking to her or attempting to understand her he just wants to assume her motivations are sinister. It couldnt possibly have anything to do with the fact she is ****ing depressed and he is making her hate his neurotic ass and resent her children. He is an inattentive husband. And neglecting the family bonds that the children need more than 24/7 mollycoddling. You dont get to just kick your wife to the curb and go spew your BS to strangers just because you have a couple of babies. Kevin could be there for V and the babies. It is possible.

Now Im not saying V is perfect, but so far her behaviour is a result of Kevin and were he an intelligent attentive adult he would see what is going on and be able to fix this mess.

Bravo! Kevin isnt even trying with her

i don't even have kids or ever really want them. But I would knock that dad **** outta the ****ing park just like Kev is doing. Being a dad comes first a husband second. Period. To extrapolate that I'm saying you should never have fun from that statement is something V would do.

The problem is Kevin is being a dad first and a husband never

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

Both Kev and V take things to the extreme, neither is right or wrong they're just over the top.
I'm not a fan of Jimmy's return, I really thought he was dead, Fiona fell to fast for him again.
Franck should have died last season finale.

 

[moviedoors]

I'm really digging the Kev and V conflict precisely because there's no straight up bad guy. They both have a legitimate POV whilst they've both failed one another and done the wrong thing. I feel sympathetic and frustrated with the both of them. It's not cartoonish (like Shameless can so frequently be), it's human, and it's also good writing.

 

[Maximus One]

I'm also not saying that Kev isn't in the wrong at all. I mean, I really don't see how he is wrong though. If one is more wrong than the other it is clearly V. He's not meeting her sexual needs, seriously? Like, I know married people that go weeks and weeks some times longer without sex. They are literally too tired from caring for their ONE child to really give a **** about having sex. I just can't see how putting your kids first is ever a bad thing and makes him in the wrong. Where was V when she grinded some dude so hard she came? Oh yea, a club. Not at home with her husband and children. Whose idea was it for Kev to go out and get a hand job instead of making herself sexy and trying to woo her man? Who was it that practically forced her husband to screw her mom? Also, this is in no way a case of me just being on the guy's side cuz screw the women. When the guys act like idiots I'll speak up on that too. And, about the scene with them fighting and the babies crying. Over reaction much? It's just like Kev said when he called V's childish ass bluff to leave "You're going to leave because I'm going to check on our crying children?" Dude, I would have told that chick to pack her ****ing bags weeks ago. Screw her bluff. She's gonna leave? Over not getting ****ed right? Leave your husband and babies?? V is exhibiting almost as much mental health issues as Ian at this point. Literally nothing she has done this year makes sense to me and I hate it because I love V. She was always my favorite female character up until this year.

 

[Maximus One]

I'm really digging the Kev and V conflict precisely because there's no straight up bad guy. They both have a legitimate POV whilst they've both failed one another and done the wrong thing. I feel sympathetic and frustrated with the both of them. It's not cartoonish (like Shameless can so frequently be), it's human, and it's also good writing.

Ok, this I will agree with. I still say V is in the wrong here but it is a very human thing. And as dude above said, they both take things to the extreme.

 

[Travesty]

So V doesn't want to breast feed her kids, cause she doesn't want to mess up her boobs. She also went back to work at the bar, cause she hates watching the kids during the day. She then has to go out with Fiona to a bar, while her kids are at home with Kev. She then gets mad at Kev when the babies are crying, as she doesn't want him to check on them, she wants him to talk to her instead.

Some of you are right, she's not being totally selfish.

 

[Maximus One]

Yea, not at all. She is beacon of parenting perfection.

 

[Havok83]

So V doesn't want to breast feed her kids, cause she doesn't want to mess up her boobs. She also went back to work at the bar, cause she hates watching the kids during the day. She then has to go out with Fiona to a bar, while her kids are at home with Kev. She then gets mad at Kev when the babies are crying, as she doesn't want him to check on them, she wants him to talk to her instead.

Some of you are right, she's not being totally selfish.

Their bills aren't going to pay themselves. Someone needed to go to work and make money. I really don't think she should be judged for not breastfeeding. That's a personal decision and it doesn't make her any less of a mother or person for not doing so

And don't make it sound like she's out at a bar every night. She is home with the kids every night. She went out with Fiona once bc she needed a break, which she is allowed to have

 

[Maximus One]

I'm not judging her for the not breast feeding. I honestly couldn't care less about that part. Although I did find her to be a bit whiny about it. Also, yea, she is completely entitled to have a night out. But, when has it shown her being at home with the kids every night? Almost every scene with her at home is of her complaining about how much the kids are ruining her marriage and how she should come first and that she didn't sign up for this and how she thought it was still just gonna be her and Kev with other people in the house as if there isn't an entire mountain of responsibilities and obligations that come with having children.

 

[Travesty]

Dude, the entire show is clearly showing us how selfish she is in this situation. She has told us very bluntly that she doesn't like the kids, and rather have her life back before the babies, and has shown time and time again that she wants nothing to do with them. This isn't something vague that the writers are doing, her character has told us this countless amount of times now. And somehow, you're making it out like this is morally just on her part.


She doesn't like her babies, she clearly wants nothing to do with them. I don't see how it could be any more clear than that? She's not a good mother: bottom line. I mean, what's next, Frank is a responsible father who loves his children?

 

[Havok83]

I'm not judging her for the not breast feeding. I honestly couldn't care less about that part. Although I did find her to be a bit whiny about it. Also, yea, she is completely entitled to have a night out. But, when has it shown her being at home with the kids every night? Almost every scene with her at home is of her complaining about how much the kids are ruining her marriage and how she should come first and that she didn't sign up for this and how she thought it was still just gonna be her and Kev with other people in the house as if there isn't an entire mountain of responsibilities and obligations that come with having children.

she's still home with them. Its not like she's flaking out and going to random places at night instead

Dude, the entire show is clearly showing us how selfish she is in this situation. She has told us very bluntly that she doesn't like the kids, and rather have her life back before the babies, and has shown time and time again that she wants nothing to do with them. This isn't something vague that the writers are doing, her character has told us this countless amount of times now. And somehow, you're making it out like this is morally just on her part.


She doesn't like her babies, she clearly wants nothing to do with them. I don't see how it could be any more clear than that? She's not a good mother: bottom line. I mean, what's next, Frank is a responsible father who loves his children?

Point to where I said she was a good mother. She's not and I dont disagree with that. My issue is that she isnt wrong in how she feels about her marriage bc Kevin is ignoring her and not making an effort to make things work. It all goes together. She has acknowledged that they have some major problems and she put it all out on the table pretty early so they can deal with it instead of letting it build and get worse and he's either ignoring or just failing to grasp just how serious this is.

And no I dont think Kevin gets a pass bc he's turned into Mr. Mom. Its almost as if he's using the kids as a shield to not have to deal with V. All he's wanted for the past 2 seasons was to be a father and she's had to make sacrifices and compromises to make his dream work for him and now that he has what he's wanted, its as if she doesnt matter. He needs to wake up and appreciate all she's done for him bc whether he means to or not, he is neglecting her and slowly pushing her out. Any person would be frustrated with this, again especially bc she's vented her feelings to him

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

For what it's worth ( not much ), I agree with Havok83' s point of view, it's much more nuanced and objective toward Kev and V.

 

[Travesty]

Point to where I said she was a good mother. She's not and I dont disagree with that.

Then why are you making excuses for everything she does, even though she has clearly said she's doing those things cause she hates her kids?

My issue is that she isnt wrong in how she feels about her marriage bc Kevin is ignoring her and not making an effort to make things work. It all goes together.

Where has she helped out with the kids at all? These kids are a few months old, and she hasn't helped out one bit. So you're saying that Kev has to take on 100% of the responsibilities of the kids, and take care of V's needs, while she sits around and does nothing? I would get your point of view, if these kids were 2-3 years old and they weren't spending time with each other, but since these are newborns who are just a few months old, I think it's more important to make sure they have the attention they deserve. And if she actually helped out with the kids, maybe Kev would have time to give attention to V, but right now, she's too selfish for any of that, all while complaining about having kids. Oh poor V, Kev is completely raising the kids, while she takes every excuse necessary to get out of the house and ditch the kids. What's a girl to do?

 

[Jason Kane]

So, V suffering from post partum depression mean nothing to you jokers?

 

[Havok83]

Then why are you making excuses for everything she does, even though she has clearly said she's doing those things cause she hates her kids?

I already explained myself on this and that I dont think she's a good mother. Do you need me to flat out write it in no uncertain terms this time? Fine. V is not a good mother.

Where has she helped out with the kids at all? These kids are a few months old, and she hasn't helped out one bit. So you're saying that Kev has to take on 100% of the responsibilities of the kids, and take care of V's needs, while she sits around and does nothing? I would get your point of view, if these kids were 2-3 years old and they weren't spending time with each other, but since these are newborns who are just a few months old, I think it's more important to make sure they have the attention they deserve. And if she actually helped out with the kids, maybe Kev would have time to give attention to V, but right now, she's too selfish for any of that, all while complaining about having kids. Oh poor V, Kev is completely raising the kids, while she takes every excuse necessary to get out of the house and ditch the kids. What's a girl to do?

She hasnt fed them? She hasnt changed diapers? She hasnt watched them? She isnt the most attentive parent, but its not accurate to say she hasnt helped one bit.

So, V suffering from post partum depression mean nothing to you jokers?

Of course not bc every woman that pops out a baby should be able to handle it with any psychological reprecussions and if she cant, then she is an awful, selfish human being.

 

[Maximus One]

V doesn't look very depressed to me but maybe I'm just crazy. I mean, last time I checked, depressed people don't go out clubbing and grinding on random dudes. They usually just kinda lay around and don't take good care of themselves.

 

[flickchick85]

At first, I too believed V was suffering from postpartum depression. But her latest behavior doesn't really match the symptoms.

 

[antsman41]

Remember in S1 when they adopted that Laura Ingalls Wilder girl... V at first wanted merely a slave and a quick payday, while Kev wanted to help her and find her a better home while using theirs as a interim fix.