Civil War Sharon carter A.K.A. Agent 13

[AndrewGilkison]

I think Marvel believes Black Widow works best as a supporting character or part of a team story. I can't really say they are wrong. I understand why they would feel that way. She was most interesting in Captain America Winter Soldier because she perfectly fit the story that movie was telling and her cynical "comfortable with everything" outlook was a great foil for Captain America's idealism and unwavering belief in what he thought was right and wrong. It would be hard to translate that into a movie where she was the lead character.

 

[Loki882]

I don't really agree with that, at all. She's perfect for a solo film imo. But we'll see where it goes.

 

[RedRose]

I don't really agree with that, at all. She's perfect for a solo film imo. But we'll see where it goes.

Agreed.

 

[MbJ]

The thing is, most Marvel movie fans don't read much comics and just assume Black Widow must be the only female superhero. They just don't understand how She-Hulk is way cooler than her.

Or people just happen to like Black Widow as a character. Seriously, there's this obnoxious habit of bashing her whenever people talk about other heroines and it's rather unnecessary. If they're as cool as you think they are then they'll stand on their own merits. This thread is a perfect example. It's supposed to be about Sharon Carter and somehow morphed into people debating whether or not Black Widow sucks or if Captain Marvel and She-Hulk are cooler.

Even here with your claim that "it's a fact that she's no Captain Marvel or She-Hulk!" is not a fact. It's your opinion. Clearly SOMETHING about the character has endeared her to many people or else there wouldn't be so many conversations about her being shafted or not. "I don't like her!" doesn't translate to "Nobody should like her!" It's like that "Stop liking what I don't like!" meme.

And more to the point of this thread, Sharon Carter will stand or fall on her own merits as a character. If people don't like or respond to her, that has nothing to do with Black Widow being more popular.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

 

[MbJ]

Lmao

 

[Mike5575]

Or people just happen to like Black Widow as a character. Seriously, there's this obnoxious habit of bashing her whenever people talk about other heroines and it's rather unnecessary. If they're as cool as you think they are then they'll stand on their own merits. This thread is a perfect example. It's supposed to be about Sharon Carter and somehow morphed into people debating whether or not Black Widow sucks or if Captain Marvel and She-Hulk are cooler.

Even here with your claim that "it's a fact that she's no Captain Marvel or She-Hulk!" is not a fact. It's your opinion. Clearly SOMETHING about the character has endeared her to many people or else there wouldn't be so many conversations about her being shafted or not. "I don't like her!" doesn't translate to "Nobody should like her!" It's like that "Stop liking what I don't like!" meme.

And more to the point of this thread, Sharon Carter will stand or fall on her own merits as a character. If people don't like or respond to her, that has nothing to do with Black Widow being more popular.

So, I have an opinion about Black Widow that you don't like, oh well. As I said before, some fans are demanding a Black Widow film, but don't know about She-Hulk and have only heard of Captain Marvel because they don't read comics. Part of what I said was fact, and not opinion. Black Widow is not any of those characters. She barely stood on her own as a solo character in the comics. The only real exception is her current run that started last year. That's ok though, not every hero needs their own book or solo movie. I just don't want Marvel to cave in and make a Black Widow film when they could have made this other film instead.

 

[MbJ]

Part of what I said was fact, and not opinion. Black Widow is not any of those characters.

She isn't. But your post juxtaposed them as though they were inherently superior, better characters more deserving of their own films when that is absolutely opinion.

As I said before, some fans are demanding a Black Widow film, but don't know about She-Hulk and have only heard of Captain Marvel because they don't read comics

The vast majority of MCU viewers don't read comics. Again, that has nothing to do with them liking Black Widow, because you're positing the idea that She-Hulk and Captain Marvel are objectively superior and "real fans" would know enough to like them better than Natasha, which is nonsense.

She barely stood on her own as a solo character in the comics. The only real exception is her current run that started last year. That's ok though, not every hero needs their own book or solo movie.

Sales history has nothing to do with movie readiness because again, the film audience is vastly different than the comics one. The Guardians of the Galaxy's first book (the current iteration the movie is based off) only made it to 25 issues before being cancelled along with the Nova book at the time. If we're gonna talk others, Carol Danvers has never had a book that made it past 50 issues. Her first one only made it to 23 before they cancelled it and made her a team member of the Avengers instead. Clearly, that didn't stop someone from thinking she had movie potential.

I just don't want Marvel to cave in and make a Black Widow film when they could have made this other film instead.

Captain Marvel is already getting a movie and the fact that She-Hulk isn't clearly has nothing to do with Black Widow.

 

[Mike5575]

She isn't. But your post juxtaposed them as though they were inherently superior, better characters more deserving of their own films when that is absolutely opinion.

They are more prominent heroes and stand better on their own than Black Widow. Well, they are in fact more deserving of their own movies than Black Widow. They are much more prominent characters in the Marvel Universe, and deserve their solo films.

The vast majority of MCU viewers don't read comics. Again, that has nothing to do with them liking Black Widow, because you're positing the idea that She-Hulk and Captain Marvel are objectively superior and "real fans" would know enough to like them better than Natasha, which is nonsense.

Its not the sole reason, no, but it does it does play into her popularity. Carol and She-Hulk are better options for solo films. They have more material, and fit the superhero mold better than Natasha does.

Sales history has nothing to do with movie readiness because again, the film audience is vastly different than the comics one. The Guardians of the Galaxy's first book (the current iteration the movie is based off) only made it to 25 issues before being cancelled along with the Nova book at the time. If we're gonna talk others, Carol Danvers has never had a book that made it past 50 issues. Her first one only made it to 23 before they cancelled it and made her a team member of the Avengers instead. Clearly, that didn't stop someone from thinking she had movie potential.

It's not about sales history, its about solo material or lack thereof. Black Widow has had mostly one shots, a six issue series in 2010, and just now her current one which started in 2014. Carol Danvers had a 50 issue series, that's more than Black Widow has ever done, and is really not a bad run. Marvel has plenty of solo material for Carol Danvers.

Captain Marvel is already getting a movie and the fact that She-Hulk isn't clearly has nothing to do with Black Widow.

They are just two examples. I would rather want sequels to all the new characters coming out in phase 3, a Namor movie, and a Spiderwoman movie before Black Widow.

If Black Widow would make such a great solo character, then why hasn't her movie been made yet? Its obvious Marvel is much more confident in putting her in other movies instead.

 

[MbJ]

They are more prominent heroes and stand better on their own than Black Widow.

To whom? Again, the audience are not comic fans. The vast majority of MCU characters are essentially new to them. And you're kidding yourself if you're saying they're much more prominent in-universe either. All three of those women have been at about the same general level of popularity for decades. They all have fanbases but none of them were considered A-list.

That's the problem with throwing around the word "fact". Saying "They deserve it more" is not a fact. It's your opinion. "They deserve it more" is utterly meaningless in a world where Marvel just made hundreds of millions of dollars off of a movie starring Groot.

Its not the sole reason, no, but it does it does play into her popularity.

That's trying to prove a hypothetical. Saying "She wouldn't be popular if people knew Carol!" is a cop-out. The large amount of male heroes certainly haven't stopped other male heroes from gaining popularity.

It's not about sales history, its about solo material or lack thereof. Black Widow has had mostly one shots, a six issue series in 2010, and just now her current one which started in 2014.

And even ignoring the fact that the majority of the MCU movies are not straight up adaptations and take liberties/make up new material all the time, that's more than enough material to work into a 2 hour solo film.





They are just two examples. I would rather want sequels to all the new characters coming out in phase 3, a Namor movie, and a Spiderwoman movie before Black Widow.

If Black Widow would make such a great solo character, then why hasn't her movie been made yet?

The same reason She-Hulk's hasn't.

 

[Mike5575]

To whom? Again, the audience are not comic fans. The vast majority of MCU characters are essentially new to them. And you're kidding yourself if you're saying they're much more prominent in-universe either. All three of those women have been at about the same general level of popularity for decades. They all have fanbases but none of them were considered A-list.

Sorry, but Carol Danvers has been a much more prominent character in comics within the last ten years. So, yeah it is a fact. Marvel isn't concerned with what the characters were doing in the 1980s as those times have long passed. I'm pretty sure She-Hulk was pretty popular for a time. She appeared in cartoons and was featured in that old Hulk tv show.

That's trying to prove a hypothetical. Saying "She wouldn't be popular if people knew Carol!" is a cop-out. The large amount of male heroes certainly haven't stopped other male heroes from gaining popularity.

I'm not saying she wouldn't be popular, but just not as popular. What other female characters do little girls have to look up to? Who else are women going to cosplay as?

And even ignoring the fact that the majority of the MCU movies are not straight up adaptations and take liberties/make up new material all the time, that's more than enough material to work into a 2 hour solo film.

And you keep bringing this up as if Marvel tries to go out of their way to make the movies so different from the comics. The films are still adaptations nonetheless. They still draw from various source material, and there's just so much more they can do with other characters.

The same reason She-Hulk's hasn't.

Sorry, but no. Marvel doesn't have distribution rights to the Hulk. Unlike She-Hulk, Marvel completely owns Black Widow and could have given her a film any time they wanted, but they didn't. Because, they know Black Widow is more of a spy than a superhero. With Marvel's first female superhero movie, Marvel would need something big and epic, and not something you could find on Agents of Shield. Black Widow may be with the Avengers, but I still think she's a shady character. She's willing to cross certain lines that other heroes won't cross to get the job done. Besides, Marvel is looking to adding new characters and expanding its universe, something a Black Widow movie wouldn't accomplish.

Not every hero gets their own movie.

 

[Tymminator]

Hilarious.

 

[universeman]

Ok so far from what I seen in the Sharon page its Black Widow vs other female heroes, Bucky I take some blame on that one, Steggy, and so far none of that has nothing to do with Sharon. Her page has been hijack

 

[sergeantbucky]

Ok so far from what I seen in the Sharon page its Black Widow vs other female heroes, Bucky I take some blame on that one, Steggy, and so far none of that has nothing to do with Sharon. Her page has been hijack

Weren't you the one bringing up Star Wars in the Scarlet Witch thread?

 

[universeman]

Weren't you the one bringing up Star Wars in the Scarlet Witch thread?

Yes I will take the blame on that, but what got it all started was me saying I hope we get some good StevexWanda scenes in CW. Then someone got mad and said no! VisionxWanda StevexSharon I was like, so I told them I just think Sacrletamerica will make the better couple that's all. t: Then some how we got in a debate about Vision that's when I said I found Vision to be boring and while he's talking about saving life R2 been doing that since the 70s. Next thing were in a debate about R2 and Vision, really everytime that person said something about Vision being a man with feelings got all these superpowers while R2 is just a made robot that has no feelings. I was like all because they got mad that I said Vision is just a robot and I think VisionxWanda wouldn't work, also they got mad that I said Disney sees SW as there number 1 child instead of Marvel that's when the Star Wars is nothing thing got started. So I'm sorry that we hijack SW's page, like I said all I said was I hope we get some good Scarletamerica scenes in CW then someone got mad at what I put and now where here.

 

[Webfoot Hero]

Yes I will take the blame on that, but what got it all started was me saying I hope we get some good StevexWanda scenes in CW. Then someone got mad and said no! VisionxWanda StevexSharon I was like, so I told them I just think Sacrletamerica will make the better couple that's all. t: Then some how we got in a debate about Vision that's when I said I found Vision to be boring and while he's talking about saving life R2 been doing that since the 70s. Next thing were in a debate about R2 and Vision, really everytime that person said something about Vision being a man with feelings got all these superpowers while R2 is just a made robot that has no feelings. I was like all because they got mad that I said Vision is just a robot and I think VisionxWanda wouldn't work, also they got mad that I said Disney sees SW as there number 1 child instead of Marvel that's when the Star Wars is nothing thing got started. So I'm sorry that we hijack SW's page, like I said all I said was I hope we get some good Scarletamerica scenes in CW then someone got mad at what I put and now where here.

Could you cut back on the amount of smilies you use in your posts? It's kind of annoying having them in the middle or after almost every sentence.

 

[universeman]

Could you cut back on the amount of smilies you use in your posts? It's kind of annoying having them in the middle or after almost every sentence.

Sorry I do that because its the only way I know how to break down the sentences, in others words without the big green guy almost all my words would be all butch up where no one could read them. Really all this new stuff isn't really my thing, I think I was better off as a lurker below the radar to be honest. I just don't fit in here, sorry again.

 

[Webfoot Hero]

Sorry I do that because its the only way I know how to break down the sentences, in others words without the big green guy almost all my words would be all butch up where no one could read them. Really all this new stuff isn't really my thing, I think I was better off as a lurker below the radar to be honest. I just don't fit in here, sorry again.

Or you could just break them into smaller paragraphs or bullet points. All the smilies do are ruin any kind of flow in reading what you wrote. Taking them out would actually make for an easier read.

 

[Voltron]

The Russo's would not have hired EVC and given her a bigger role in CW if they didn't think she had chemistry with Chris. We have to give her a chance as judging her on a role that lasted all of four minutes in TWS isn't fair at this point.

True and in an interview, EVC mentioned that she did a screen test with Chris after knowing other actresses were tested as well.

The way Chris is looking at EVC here, I bet since he has read some of the Cap comics he knows what's in store between their characters.

Black Widow wouldn't receive as much attention if other female characters like Scarlet Witch had been introduced earlier. Lizzie did a great job and I am more interested in seeing Scarlet Witch in the future. I also want to see characters like Sharon get appropriate screen time as well.

True, BW had the advantage and novelty of being the first female avenger and people wouldn't know any better. I blame Marvel for only introducing one female avenger instead of two whereas we got 5 male avengers.

Seeing how well Lizzie, Zoe, Gillan brought Wanda, Gamora, Nebula to the screen made me realize even more how mediocre and generic SJ's BW is. From what I've seen of Black Widow in a few cartoons and in the comics it shows me that SJ's BW is a disappointing portrayal. I've read that Emily Blunt was offered the role, but couldn't take it, which is too bad since after seeing her in Edge of Tomorrow she would've been a better BW in physique, movement and characterization.

Give me characters like Captain Marvel, Scarlet Witch, Wasp, Nebula and Gamora every time. Nothing against human characters though and I'm looking forward to seeing Sharons role in CW. It's disappointing that the hate against Sharon/Steve from this 'vocal' group is noticable as well.

Me too, I love Nebula and Gamora and their fight scene was so badass where they actually fought themselves. I like the way Zoe's Gamora moves and she's convincing as a fighter. Yeah many people hate Sharon/Staron since she gets in the way of their "ships".

 

[Voltron]

Sharon better get that Cap booty in CW.

 

[Spitfire]

And more to the point of this thread, Sharon Carter will stand or fall on her own merits as a character. If people don't like or respond to her, that has nothing to do with Black Widow being more popular.

True, but this will depend on the decisions made by Marvel. If they don't give Sharon sufficient screen time or a decent story that makes the character interesting then she won't be received well by the audience.

Marvel may be nervous following the backlash from vocal BW fans after AoU and may decide to allocate more time to her character in CW. This may be at the expense of Sharon, Falcon etc. to avoid making the story overcrowded.

 

[Spitfire]

True and in an interview, EVC mentioned that she did a screen test with Chris after knowing other actresses were tested as well.

The way Chris is looking at EVC here, I bet since he has read some of the Cap comics he knows what's in store between their characters.

True, BW had the advantage and novelty of being the first female avenger and people wouldn't know any better. I blame Marvel for only introducing one female avenger instead of two whereas we got 5 male avengers.

The Russo's did a great job casting new characters in TWS and would have selected EVC for a good reason. I'm sure she will be great in CW.

Yeah, BW has benefitted from the novelty of being the only female Avenger until now. It's not just about diversity though as characters like SW, Wasp and Captain Marvel are amazing individuals and bring such interesting dynamics to the team in the comics. This needs to be replicated in the MCU.

 

[universeman]

True, but this will depend on the decisions made by Marvel. If they don't give Sharon sufficient screen time or a decent story that makes the character interesting then she won't be received well by the audience.

Marvel may be nervous following the backlash from vocal BW fans after AoU and may decide to allocate more time to her character in CW. This may be at the expense of Sharon, Falcon etc. to avoid making the story overcrowded.

I agree on Tumblr there saying Russo's were counting on you to fix Natasha, and Steve and Natasha.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

Natasha gets a HUGE role in TWS? Fans demand more Natasha in general, because she has 'earned' it.

Natasha gets an unappealing role? Fans demand more Natasha to make up for it.

Eh.

 

[universeman]

Natasha gets a HUGE role in TWS? Fans demand more Natasha in general, because she has 'earned' it.

Natasha gets an unappealing role? Fans demand more Natasha to make up for it.

Eh.

Yep its funny isn't it the StevexNatasha shippers went off the deep end when Cap said no were leaving her there when Ultron captured BW, they said no Steve wouldn't say that! Whedon your ruining them! Russo's fix them fix them now! really I think the BW being capture and rescue by Scott rumor may be cut out of the movie, since it happen in AOU which got backlash. Or they may change it where instead of BW being capture it's Sharon