Sequels SHOULD Singer even return to the X-Men franchise?

[Superwoman Prime]

Mind explaining what it is about X-Men you don't believe he has a handle on?

 

[Jennifer Walters]

For one while he gets the message that they are society's outcasts, hated and looked down upon. He only has a grasp of 3 characters. Everyone else is a cardboard cut out with a popular mutant from the book's name on it.

He made them more like business associates than a family. None of them seem to care about one another and the only relationship he wanted to focus on was Jean/Wolverine. Sure, bonus points to him for Jean's death scene which was the only time anyone who wasn't Wolverine got to emote in his films.

He whited out every single last one of them. And by whited out I mean they all are from America. The great thing that increased that message he loves so much is that the X-Men came from across the globe and pushed together more not only because they are mutants and social outcasts because of that one tiny little gene that makes them different, they also have to attend to the fact that some of them are from Russia, Africa, some are gay. Something he failed to represent, by ditching any and all accents or backgrounds that wasn't Nightcrawler's. But then I guess he couldn't be bothered since they weren't Wolverine.

Which brings me to a big point. He didn't want to make X-Men films, he wanted to make Wolverine starring those other guy films. Putting Wolverine in the spotlight was the entirely wrong thing to do. The reason Wolverine became successful was because he was that one guy on the team that stood out because he didn't play along all the time. Here he just crashes into the X-Men's lives and we follow him and they stand around playing second fiddle to him. There's no sense these are movies about a team. These movies come across as ''Okay, here's your hero." ''Okay here's your supporting characters."

If Singer should have came onto the X-Men films anywhere it should have been the Wolverine movie we just got. He should have let someone else who was interested in making a TEAM film that focused on EVERYBODY, got the message right, didn't white out everyone, made them feel like a family of misfits that ganged together because all they had was one another.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

Where's the necessity of delving into ethnic backgrounds of the characters, at least for a film adaptation of the comics, when the point of people with differences uniting for one cause is already present? Comics have much more leg room for developing the histories of the characters and taking that idea to the next level, but we're talking about films that only have a slim frame of time to introduce you to the universe, the cast of characters, and to develop stories from there.

As far as Wolverine, you might have a point. It never bothered me because 1) The films were my introduction to the franchise, so when I was first watching them, I didn't know any better. 2) Wolverine, while being the main character, never became a Mary Sue. He's humbled several times throughout. Gets beaten by Sabretooth, and wasn't able to save Rogue from the burning truck. Xavier remarks upon studying Wolverine that there are "more powerful mutants", and is bewildered why Magneto would be interested in getting his hands on him. Magneto later reveals that it was in fact Rogue he wanted. And that's to name a few from the first film only. I require that he be a competent hero as the main character of a comic flick, but I'm thankful it never turned into a "let's celebrate Wolverine" festival.

He gets a lot of spotlight, but I knew enough about the other characters at least to care about what happened to them.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Singer coming back would be the only thing that would get me genuinly excited about the X-Men franchise again, X3 was trash, Wolverine was better but pretty average for me, only X-Men and X2 were really good, and Singer directed them, so I will say yes in a heartbeat to him coming back if it was up to me, and I hope its for X4 and he brings Cyclops back.

 

[CelticPredator]

Good movie > Sticking to the soruce.

 

[Downhere]

I say bring Singer back and let him make X-Men 4, which will just be what X-Men 3 should have been.

 

[Jennifer Walters]

Good movie > Sticking to the soruce.

We can have both and that's what I'm asking for. I want an X-Men movie when watching X-Men and that's not what Singer's given me.

 

[b_boy]

Yes, for sure... bring him back quick before the cast gets to old...

 

[Angamb]

Im sure about one thing:


Singer would do the best x-men sequel.




so................ ABSOLUTELY YES!

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Don't bring him back I want a reboot of the series.

 

[X-Maniac]

"Once again, Wolverine, you think it's all about you."

"You never learn, do you."

Jackman even said he believed the franchise was all about him on one of the disc commentaries for the previous X-Men movies.

In Wolverine, however, he was out-acted by Liev Schreiber, Danny Huston, Ryan Reynolds and even the brilliant pair of Aussie actors who so wonderfully played the old Hudson couple.

 

[danoyse]

Jackman even said he believed the franchise was all about him on one of the disc commentaries for the previous X-Men movies.

Which disc was that? He's never done a commentary track.

 

[X-Maniac]

Which disc was that? He's never done a commentary track.

He has spoken on one of the commentary/documentary features, either on X1 or X2 discs. I recall cringing when he said something like 'But you know it's all about me.'

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

"Once again, Wolverine, you think it's all about you."

"You never learn, do you."

Jackman even said he believed the franchise was all about him on one of the disc commentaries for the previous X-Men movies.

In Wolverine, however, he was out-acted by Liev Schreiber, Danny Huston, Ryan Reynolds and even the brilliant pair of Aussie actors who so wonderfully played the old Hudson couple.

Honestly would never have guessed that the Hudson's were Australian, thats a credit to them I suppose, but I was much more impressed with the old guy rather than the old lady.

Definately wish we would have gotten more Reynolds, and Huston, while not bad in the role, wasnt as good as Brian Cox I thought.

For me, I thought Hugh was pretty good in the movie, he just didnt get much to work with, X3 is were he gave his worst performance of the series so far for me.

 

[danoyse]

He has spoken on one of the commentary/documentary features, either on X1 or X2 discs. I recall cringing when he said something like 'But you know it's all about me.'

He's definitely never done a commentary track, and I don't recall seeing anything like that on either of the disc extras, but if he did I doubt he was being serious. I've seen plenty of interviews with Hugh regarding X-Men where he's certainly been full of it, but never full of himself.

Hell, on the XMO extras he spends more time piling on compliments about everyone else then he spends talking about himself.

I thought he was fine in the new movie, he just needed more beserker moments.

 

[gridlockd]

Anyone who would abandon X-men for Superman didn't deserve the honor in the first place.

And the first X-men movie has always been really overrated.

Lame costumes. Remember Toad? Halle Berry as Storm? Cerebro lookin like the bridge of the enterprise. Even Magnetos machine that turned everyone into 'false mutants'?

Overrated director. Usual Suspects was classic because of the script. Anyone see Apt Pupil? Horrible. And listen to his commentary on the first movie. He doesn't even seem to know what he's talking about.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

The first X-Men movie wasn't JUST about Wolverine. It was about Wolverine AND Rogue being introduced into the world of the X-Men. It was from their POV so of course those two get most screen time and development. And Storms chat with Senator Kelly gives us an insight into who she is and how she feels, so don't give me that crap about no other characters got any development at all.

Who saved the day? The team

The second movie was about this threat to mutant kind. It just so happens that threat is from Wolverines past. What's the problem with that? And X-2 also had development for more of the characters, not just Wolverine. ie. Bobby. Nightcrawler. Even Mystique in ONE line shows us a lot about her.

Who saved the day? The team.

X-3 was the one that turned into the Wolverine show. It was more blatant and illogical. The previous 2 movies had REAL reasons for Wolverine to get some attention. X-3, did not.

Who saved the day? Wolverine.

 

[gridlockd]

He whited out every single last one of them. And by whited out I mean they all are from America. The great thing that increased that message he loves so much is that the X-Men came from across the globe and pushed together more not only because they are mutants and social outcasts because of that one tiny little gene that makes them different, they also have to attend to the fact that some of them are from Russia, Africa, some are gay. Something he failed to represent, by ditching any and all accents or backgrounds that wasn't Nightcrawler's. But then I guess he couldn't be bothered since they weren't Wolverine.

This really bothered me too. It seeemed like he was more focused on making X-Men a gay metaphor than a minority metaphor. The beauty of the Xmen is they are immigrants. They come from all over the world. But no one had an accent! (Collosus from Russia, Rogue from the deep South, Storm from Africa, Wolverine from Canada, Pyro from Australlia) The Xmen are supposed to be a melting pot. They are all different but they accept each other because society brands them as different from them. I love the idea of people of different races coming together to hate mutants. Nice irony and social commentary lost. Singer had his own, personal agenda as opposed to celebrating Stan Lee's ideas (Like Raimi did)

Also I would have like to see some variation in their ages. Seemed like they were all good looking teens. Caucasian and American. That's totally missing the point of the X-Men.


Plus he really watered down how mutants look and how powerfull they are. I thought Ratner captured the action much better.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

"Once again, Wolverine, you think it's all about you."

"You never learn, do you."

Jackman even said he believed the franchise was all about him on one of the disc commentaries for the previous X-Men movies.

In Wolverine, however, he was out-acted by Liev Schreiber, Danny Huston, Ryan Reynolds and even the brilliant pair of Aussie actors who so wonderfully played the old Hudson couple.

I thought Jackman's performance was the best in the film.

 

[X-Maniac]

He's definitely never done a commentary track, and I don't recall seeing anything like that on either of the disc extras, but if he did I doubt he was being serious. I've seen plenty of interviews with Hugh regarding X-Men where he's certainly been full of it, but never full of himself.

Hell, on the XMO extras he spends more time piling on compliments about everyone else then he spends talking about himself.

It was part of a commentary/extra. If I stumble across it, i will let you know where it is

I thought he was fine in the new movie, he just needed more beserker moments.

Indeed.

But he was a bit too Clint Eastwood at times. And it made me laugh when his hair kept flopping around (it goes flat in the boxing match with Blob, it all falls forward in a big mop when he crashes to the ground on top of Sabretooth, on the island).

And definitely more berserker (and less roaring at the sky). He said 'I'm the best at what I do and what i do isn't very nice', yet he didn't really a lot to justify that. He did nothing at all during the Team X mission, apart from walk away...

 

[danoyse]

But he was a bit too Clint Eastwood at times. And it made me laugh when his hair kept flopping around (it goes flat in the boxing match with Blob, it all falls forward in a big mop when he crashes to the ground on top of Sabretooth, on the island).

I got a laugh at how he's turning completely purple in that scene. He looked like he was going to have a coronary.

And definitely more berserker (and less roaring at the sky). He said 'I'm the best at what I do and what i do isn't very nice', yet he didn't really a lot to justify that. He did nothing at all during the Team X mission, apart from walk away...

That was annoying, the Team X scenes should have been so much longer and they should have let Wolverine do something more than disapprove. The audience was eating that stuff up when I saw it opening night. It was over way too fast.

I love it in the lab when he's pounding Victor (which was again, too damn short), if he had more moments like that it would have been golden. Hell, have him take down the guards holding the mutants kids prisoner. That would have been great.

 

[FaT_tONle]

X-3 was the one that turned into the Wolverine show. It was more blatant and illogical. The previous 2 movies had REAL reasons for Wolverine to get some attention. X-3, did not.

Who saved the day? Wolverine.

Exactly.

 

[Deaths Head II]

The first X-Men movie wasn't JUST about Wolverine. It was about Wolverine AND Rogue being introduced into the world of the X-Men. It was from their POV so of course those two get most screen time and development. And Storms chat with Senator Kelly gives us an insight into who she is and how she feels, so don't give me that crap about no other characters got any development at all.

Who saved the day? The team

The second movie was about this threat to mutant kind. It just so happens that threat is from Wolverines past. What's the problem with that? And X-2 also had development for more of the characters, not just Wolverine. ie. Bobby. Nightcrawler. Even Mystique in ONE line shows us a lot about her.

Who saved the day? The team.

X-3 was the one that turned into the Wolverine show. It was more blatant and illogical. The previous 2 movies had REAL reasons for Wolverine to get some attention. X-3, did not.

Who saved the day? Wolverine.

I actually agree that the first two films were more of a team effort then most people give them credit for. Especially X1. One argument I never got was that there wasn't enough teamwork and it was all Wolverine saving the day in that film.

Taking out Sabretooth: Wolverine gets Cyclops glasses, Jean positions them in front of Cyclops, Cyclops takes out Sabretooth.

Taking out the machine: Storm uses wind to lift Wolverine, Jean steadies him, Cyclops takes out Magneto, and Wolverine trashes the machine.

It's centered around Wolverine, sure, but every official member of the X-Men served a role in the first film.

They had more time on Wolverine but they had actual teamwork in the film. X2 wasn't really a film about the team but the alliance between the remaining Brotherhood and remaining X-Men. Wolverine's actions actually had less to save the day here. Storm and Nightcrawler were the ones to stop the Professor. I think X3 was the real Wolverine film. X1 was Wolverine meeting the X-Men (along with Rogue), and X2 was Wolverine's past confronting him and his new friends. X3 is where he had no business being the big star since he basically became the leader of the team. X3 is really what showed that they're willing to throw Wolverine in any role as long as it meant he is the star regardless of what it does to the lore of the character and of the team.

 

[thegameq]

For one while he gets the message that they are society's outcasts, hated and looked down upon. He only has a grasp of 3 characters. Everyone else is a cardboard cut out with a popular mutant from the book's name on it.

He made them more like business associates than a family. None of them seem to care about one another and the only relationship he wanted to focus on was Jean/Wolverine. Sure, bonus points to him for Jean's death scene which was the only time anyone who wasn't Wolverine got to emote in his films.

He whited out every single last one of them. And by whited out I mean they all are from America. The great thing that increased that message he loves so much is that the X-Men came from across the globe and pushed together more not only because they are mutants and social outcasts because of that one tiny little gene that makes them different, they also have to attend to the fact that some of them are from Russia, Africa, some are gay. Something he failed to represent, by ditching any and all accents or backgrounds that wasn't Nightcrawler's. But then I guess he couldn't be bothered since they weren't Wolverine.

Which brings me to a big point. He didn't want to make X-Men films, he wanted to make Wolverine starring those other guy films. Putting Wolverine in the spotlight was the entirely wrong thing to do. The reason Wolverine became successful was because he was that one guy on the team that stood out because he didn't play along all the time. Here he just crashes into the X-Men's lives and we follow him and they stand around playing second fiddle to him. There's no sense these are movies about a team. These movies come across as ''Okay, here's your hero." ''Okay here's your supporting characters."

If Singer should have came onto the X-Men films anywhere it should have been the Wolverine movie we just got. He should have let someone else who was interested in making a TEAM film that focused on EVERYBODY, got the message right, didn't white out everyone, made them feel like a family of misfits that ganged together because all they had was one another.

Excellent post.

You know,...I'm sure most fans (myself included) probably give some kudos to Singer for the effort since it was one of the first major cbm in a while since Donner's films and Burton's films. He did the best he could and for what it was at the time we accepted it to some degree. But I can't help but think that like me, my fellow fans were sitting in the theatres during X1 and X2, WAITING AND WAITING for the moment that those films would feel like you're watching the X-MEN.

It's been said before on other boards and other posts, by various posters/fans, though the words may vary; "when I saw Spider-man swinging through the caverns of NYC, I felt that boyish grin creep over my face". "When I saw that mid-air fight between Doc Ock and Spidey, that boyish grin came over my face--it was awesome". There were also moments like that in TIH and IM. The only time I got that sensation when watching "Singer's X-men" was during the Night Crawler White House attack.

Singer's X-men, for all the effort and good intentions, felt like a half hearted, half-assed attempt at bringing the X-men to life. As JustABill--and myriad of others have expressed consistently in boards all over SHH and the internet, Singer was more concerned about his message than the material. Yes, we know X-men is based on the civil rights movement, i.e. bigotry, prejudice, equality, etc. But did it need to be the only and utter focus of X-men films? Is that all the X-men are? Singer's intentions may have been good, but the difference between his effort with SR and the X-films are obvious. Superman was obviously something he was familiar with and dear to him. X-men, not so much. Frankly, SR felt like a big budget major motion picture, while X-men felt like...well, a half-assed, half hearted attempt.

Listen, I get it, as do most reasonable fans that it's impossible for everyone's fave character to get screen time, character developement, etc. But Jesus! To just ditch all the other characters or white them out as JustABill implied was ridiculous. furthermore, the better directors and writers know how to get character developement and screen time for multiple characters in a story arc. SPLIT THEM UP--DUH!!!

The Wolverine angle or POV has been beaten to death. It was no where as necessary as some like to make it sound. A different approach could have worked just as well. Ditto with casting except for a notable here and there (Stewart, etc.)

It is endlessly fustrating to keep hearing that people want to continue to cling to this mediocre version of the X-men. The X-men are so much more that what we were given. Adding to the fustration is that after seeing the treatment the better-more faithful comicbook films have gotten, there's no reason that the X-men don't deserve the same. There's no reason X-men should be denied the same blockbuster treatment. There's no reason to cling to Singer's vision it anymore.

I have a hard time believing that an X-men film closer to the source material would be some gigantic flop or laughing stock among the genereal audinece that some claim it would be.

....just let the Singerverse go. It's time for the X-men to be given their due in Hollywood. They've earned it.

 

[chaseter]

Let the Singerverse go? We have had the Ratnerverse and the Gavinverse...both sucked. If Wolverine 2 continues what Gavin Hood started, it will suck. If X4 continues with what Ratner started, it will suck.

Singer is the only one that has done a good job. We can wish for a reboot all we want...not gonna happen any time soon. We can wish for another director to come in and give us a new interpretation...but we are 0 for 2 in that department. Some of you highly underestimate Fox's ability to ruin films.

As long as the X-Men remain at Fox, they will never have their due in Hollywood.