Should Some Marvel Mutants Be Fixed?

[TheCorpulent1]

I can't say off the top of my head, but I'm sure some X-Man somewhere must've shot someone by now. The point is that Cyclops, as the leader of the X-Men, wouldn't have approved back then. Now he'd probably giggle and grab the gun to get off a few shots of his own.

 

[El Bastardo]

I know, Corpy. I was being deliberately facetious.

Still, Cyclops is -not- as bad as many have made him out to be. He never told Wolverine and that incarnation of X-Force (during Messiah Complex) to kill Cable. At the time he was shooting in the dark, and told them to bring the baby back. By any means necessary, sure, but that does not necessarily equal the order "Kill Cable."

I'm just saying. Yes, what he'll allow has gone considerably downhill. That doesn't make him a bad character or a bad leader. It's just a change in direction - nope, it's not a change anyone has to like, but it's not necessarily a change for the worst, either. Characters change, and if all they did was change into "better people," we'd just have a ton of paragons.

 

[Manic]

I liked Kyle and Yost's run. I suppose it went a little overboard, but hey, it was a breath of fresh air, too. Superhero comics tend to have no stakes whatsoever, and so it was nice to read something where a few characters got to bite the dust, and it wasn't a What If? or alternate timeline.

Yes, yes, I know, the deaths were not eloquent. That was kind of the (a?) point.

"a little overboard"? Nearly 50 children died on-panel! I will concede that even I was behind the bus explosion that killed the first 40 kids, because I felt like that was all the story needed to show that the stakes were high, and that there's going to be an action-packed conclusion. But the deaths that followed were completely unnecessary, and only served to piss me off.

Wallflower walking in the garden and getting sniper-shot through the head? Lame.
Icarus' healing factor suddenly not working as he gets shot and bashed over the head by a robotic arm and slowly bleeds to death from his wings being sloppily cut off? Lame.
Quill getting shot in the dorm hallway? Lame.

I'm especially pissed off about Icarus.

 

[GyLocke]

One of the things that made me love Cap so much.

You're assuming that genocide is the only option, though. As Cap pointed out in Galactic Storm, there are better ways to defeat your enemy without sinking to their level. Sacrificing your principles to survive shouldn't be an option, as far as I'm concerned.

Although, to be fair, Cyclops doesn't really have any principles anymore.

This is not fair to Cyke. In the SI tie in, he had no choice. The Skrulls were gunning down civilians, demanding the X-men to give up themselves. And since they're the bulk of the mutant race now (how goddamn stupid is that by the way?) that wasn't an option. Neither letting the people of SF get slaughtered.

I'm sure with some great old school writing, like "CHANGING THE POLARITIES" or "BLOWING UP THE CORE", they could've avoid using the legacy virus. For one I'm glad the writer chose a solution, that involved character conflicts and a more realistic experience - the heroes had to make a sacrifice, and compromise their moral code, instead of some ******** magic sollution the writer pulled out of his ass.

Cyke even offered the antidote, right away. He didn't even contemplate using it, untill the skrulls started to kill civilians - something he considered crossing the line. So he sprayed virus on himself and on his men, and gave himself up, to save the innocent humans. And still tried to avoid genocide (would've worked, if the skrull leader wasn't a fanatic)

For me, that's a hero, not a fascist.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

But they didn't compromise their moral code because at this point, the X-Men don't have a moral code. Anything goes so long as the mutants come out the other end of it alive, as far as Cyclops is concerned. He was willing to have his own son executed over a misunderstanding (and for anyone who says he didn't tell Wolverine to kill Cable, "by any means necessary" pretty much directly translates as "it's okay to kill him if you want to" to Wolverine and we all know it). Maybe "fascist" is an exaggeration, but that certainly ain't a hero to me.

 

[El Bastardo]

"a little overboard"? Nearly 50 children died on-panel! I will concede that even I was behind the bus explosion that killed the first 40 kids, because I felt like that was all the story needed to show that the stakes were high, and that there's going to be an action-packed conclusion. But the deaths that followed were completely unnecessary, and only served to piss me off.

Wallflower walking in the garden and getting sniper-shot through the head? Lame.
Icarus' healing factor suddenly not working as he gets shot and bashed over the head by a robotic arm and slowly bleeds to death from his wings being sloppily cut off? Lame.
Quill getting shot in the dorm hallway? Lame.

I'm especially pissed off about Icarus.

Would you like me to hold you, cradle and pet your head, and whisper again and again, "Don't worry, it'll all be alright?"

The first step in overcoming anger is identifying the source of your anger. Say their names, Manic. Say them.

 

[Colossal Spoons]

Manic should run for mayor of Stamford lol

 

[GyLocke]

But they didn't compromise their moral code because at this point, the X-Men don't have a moral code. Anything goes so long as the mutants come out the other end of it alive, as far as Cyclops is concerned. He was willing to have his own son executed over a misunderstanding (and for anyone who says he didn't tell Wolverine to kill Cable, "by any means necessary" pretty much directly translates as "it's okay to kill him if you want to" to Wolverine and we all know it). Maybe "fascist" is an exaggeration, but that certainly ain't a hero to me.

I know arguing over semantics is so nerdy, that I'll grow braces for this and gain a few pounds, but "by any means necessary doesn't mean "kill him if you want to" it's "kill him, if you have no other choice to get back the last mutant baby, the last hope of our kind". That's a pretty tough call to make, especially if the guy who kidnapped the child for no apparent reason is your own son. i think making that call, is what makes Scott a hero. He knows his family ties to Cable would affect his judgment. So he trusts Wolverine enough to know he'll have the right idea about the situation. He leaves the judgment to him, knowing he won't gut Cable, as long as he has a choice. But he wants the baby back. No special treatment for family members in times like this (just think about Peter's deal for Aunt May. Cyke has more integrity in his little finger.).

Also, he wouldn't use it until they had the antidote. That's where you see his moral code.

Scott behaves like a STRONG leader, and not a ***** nervous wreck like before (or in the movies. Poor James Mardsen.) I think it's a step towards a hopeful direction, against the "all heroes are fallable, cause more bad than good, and they're basically ****ups" direction of the rest of the Marvel U. He's a no-nonsense, pragmatic leader, taking charge, looking at the world objectively. Look at Tony, Cap, Cage, Spidey, etc. They let others screw them, bend them, manipulate them. They let their own interest and/or ego lead them into ruin. (The illuminati was basically the members pull each other into terrible mistakes.) Scott is doing his own thing, not even letting Emma (a goddamn telepath) into his thoughts. Finally someone's showing a backbone.

 

[fifthfiend]

You know now that I think of it, that whole Illuminaughty thing would make a whole lot more sense if they just had Scott show up for Osborne's meeting and went like "All right Normie, let's do business."

 

[TheCorpulent1]

You mean instead of Emma? Yeah, I could see that.

 

[Manic]

I got pro-banned a while back, so it's taken me until today to finally do this...

The first step in overcoming anger is identifying the source of your anger. Say their names, Manic. Say them.

NEVER!

 

[BrianWilly]

It seems like everyone's getting probed lately.

 

[Manic]

It seems like everyone's getting probed lately.

They didn't even buy me dinner.