Should Some Marvel Mutants Be Fixed?

[Kirk Langstrom]

But you're defining the essence of characters that are nearly fifty years old by five years' worth of stories. One-tenth of all material that encapsulates the franchise; most characters that are most associated with the X-Men weren't even created at that point.

That's the usual response from fans who, well, just aren't being very objective.

No, what i'm saying is that five year's worth of stories strayed a bit too far from the original source material for my personal liking.

At a certain point, it's almost like i was asking myself why Morrison just didnt create a whole new set of characters for an indie label.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Cyclops - He is one of the oldest members of the x-men, his powers are that when he opens his eyes a red lazer fires out which he doesnt seem to be able to control However, Havok and Vulcan seem to be able to manage there powers. So should Cyclops finally be able to look in a mirror and see his eyes without blowing himself up?

Uhhh...Cyclops is immune to his own power so he wouldnt blow himself up anyway.

Nightcrawler - when he lost his powers was human so his mutation is that he turned blue skinned and grew a tale, and has the ability to teleport.

That happened???When????

 

[WolfCypher]

Cyclops needs to be able to control his powers by now.

Juggernaut being a non-mutant older young brother to Xavier...sorry, Ultimate Juggernaut is the best Juggernaut.

Beast needs to keep his intelligence, and keep his feral look. That "Tomorrow" arc with Tom Skylark and the evil Beast was awesome, and that's the Beast I like the most, appearance-wise

 

[TheCorpulent1]

How is Ultimate Juggernaut the best Juggernaut? Because he's a mutant or because you're really into S&M costumes?

 

[fifthfiend]

Nothing says "Ultimate" like throwing out the entire plot hook that made a character worth caring about and giving them a totally weaksauced version of their old powerset.

 

[Specter313]

All they needed was another mutant holocaust like the one in Genosha, where another half of the mutant population was taken out. Then have Wanda cast a spell that prevents flatscan humans from giving birth to X-gene positive babies, and stops dormant teens from manifesting their powers.

There. The numbers are reduced, but the number of mutants on Earth aren't outnumbered by a single public school.

But then ya have to stop people like Yost and Kyle from offing one or two mutants every arc so that number at least stays somewhat steady and not reduced by even more.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Nothing says "Ultimate" like throwing out the entire plot hook that made a character worth caring about and giving them a totally weaksauced version of their old powerset.

It's the hallmark of great Ultimate characters.

 

[Manic]

Juggernaut being a non-mutant older young brother to Xavier...sorry, Ultimate Juggernaut is the best Juggernaut.

Beast needs to keep his intelligence, and keep his feral look. That "Tomorrow" arc with Tom Skylark and the evil Beast was awesome, and that's the Beast I like the most, appearance-wise

Tell me one interesting thing about Ultimate Juggernaut. It's okay; I'll wait.

But then ya have to stop people like Yost and Kyle from offing one or two mutants every arc so that number at least stays somewhat steady and not reduced by even more.

Kyle & Yost need to stop writing comics. Yost can keep writing as a solo writer on miniseries (he seems to be good at doing that without causing a bloodbath), but Kyle needs to be fired so they can never team up again.

It's like Lucas & Spielberg. Sure, they once did excellent work together (X-Men: Evolution/Indiana Jones Trilogy), but now their team-up work is only worth watching if you want to ignore all of its obvious flaws and simply accept it because it features your favorite characters (New X-Men & X-Force/Kingdom of the Crystal Skull). Really, you're better off with only one of them (Yost/Spielberg).

 

[TheCorpulent1]

You know, I'm normally against crappy deaths for characters, but I somehow can't bring myself to feel bad for any of Marvel's myriad mutants who are killed off. "The 198" indeed.

 

[Dread]

I think most people are irritated by the Kyle & Yost slaughter spree on NEW X-MEN, not THE 198, which they didn't write (I believe).

Basically, a pair of other writers had relaunched NEW MUTANTS and it merged into ACADEMY X and so forth. It had a sprawling teen cast and was akin to "X-Men as Hogwarts" only with more teen soap and less action. It may have been akin to X-FORCE by the late 90's before Milligan got aboard and turned it into X-STATIX. It needed a kick in the rear to move things in the drama department up a notch.

Kyle and Yost got aboard and instead of a kick in the rear, they gave it an atomic bomb to the face. While M-Day gutted the book by depowering half the cast, Yost & Kyle's brilliant idea was to make the stakes higher by killing off supporting characters left and right, then mutilating the rest. What they failed to understand is that simply made it a horror show where you roll your eyes every time Jason Vorhees stabs a co-ed, or something. The term "overkill" is too subtle.

They have been capable of solid work on TV (X-MEN EVOLUTION, and FANTASTIC FOUR: WGH overall) and Yost has written some good mini's. But I may add they've hardly lit TV screens ablaze in DTV glory yet. Everyone is predicting HULK VS. will finally be a Marvel LG hit, and it only took 4-5 tries.

Honestly, I think they've written for TV so long that they seem unable to grasp anything greater because network censorship has been internalized. But, that's just me. Simply going for gore does not make a work above Saturday Morning fare.

I agree. I didn't like that Morrison made the Mutant population so huge and I didn't like that they then took away so many mutants powers. Now we are left with Cyclops acting like his moses.

Let's say Cyclops has been acting so off lately that nearly everyone presumed he was the X-Men's "token Skrull" during SECRET INVASION. That should have revealed something.

 

[WolfCypher]

How is Ultimate Juggernaut the best Juggernaut? Because he's a mutant or because you're really into S&M costumes?

He's a mutant, his power level is currently stable, I love the dynamic between him and Rouge, and making him a Weapon X member adds to the value.

 

[Manic]

Kyle and Yost got aboard and instead of a kick in the rear, they gave it an atomic bomb to the face. While M-Day gutted the book by depowering half the cast, Yost & Kyle's brilliant idea was to make the stakes higher by killing off supporting characters left and right, then mutilating the rest. What they failed to understand is that simply made it a horror show where you roll your eyes every time Jason Vorhees stabs a co-ed, or something. The term "overkill" is too subtle.

Adding to this, I'd like to say that (and I'm not exaggerating in the least) nearly 50 children died on-panel in their first dozen issues.

 

[Dread]

Adding to this, I'd like to say that (and I'm not exaggerating in the least) nearly 50 children died on-panel in their first dozen issues.

Indeed. Like I said, instead of giving the book a kick in the rear, they turned it into "torture porn" almost akin to HOSTEL.

Whenever there was a break in the slaughter/torture for characterization, gee, everyone was traumatized! Now that's deep!

 

[Manic]

And that's why I refer to them as They Who Shall Not Be Named. The Harry Potter reference is intentional, as Voldemort was also the greatest enemy to a school full of children capable of amazing feats.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

He's a mutant, his power level is currently stable, I love the dynamic between him and Rouge, and making him a Weapon X member adds to the value.

Why does his being a mutant make a difference? I like the fact that Jugs isn't a mutant, specifically because it creates more tension and jealousy between him and Chuck. I don't read Ultimate comics, so I don't know what his relationship with Rogue is, but it's not like the 616 Jugs doesn't have plenty of interesting relationships. He and Dazzler actually had a fairly interesting relationship in New Excalibur. As for Weapon X, they must've been weaponizing mutants and humans for centuries, the amount of people that are associated with them. Enough, already.

 

[Manic]

A brief description of Ultimate Juggernaut:

In the Ultimate Universe, the Weapon X program are (of course) Wolverine's former employers, run by a series of military men and mad scientists. They kidnap unwilling mutants, put chips in their skulls, and force them to do black ops missions for the US government. Their roster consisted of Rogue, Nightcrawler, Sabretooth, and Juggernaut. For the record, Juggernaut was the muscle of the group who (because he was written by Millar) had no defined personality. He literally stood next to Rogue the whole time and fought Colossus when the time came. Then he (and all of Weapon X) fell into Ultimate obscurity (Rogue and Nightcrawler would later join the X-Men for seemingly no reason, SEVERAL storylines later).

He was nothing. A nobody. He was super-strength in an S&M suit with no personality attached to it. A few years later, he showed up in the Ultimate X-Men Annual. Maybe he was given a personality at that point. I don't know. I stopped reading Ultimate X-Men around that point.

 

[Dread]

The interesting thing is that every 21st century alternate re-creation of Juggernaut in TV and comics have made him some sort of mutant.

X-MEN EVOLUTION actually tried to do both; Xavier claimed that Cain Marko "had a mutant gene, but it was dormant most of his life. So, he awakened it with mysticism."

X-MEN 3 of course just kept him a mutant, and we know Ultimate's angle. I liked Millar's Wraith in Ult. X-MEN but it like many arcs, started out interesting and then fizzled out by the end. Many of Millar's arcs on that book were like that; great at the start, underwhelming at the end. Aside for RETURN OF THE KING, which was his last on the book. I just hated his snarky "can you top this" style of dialogue on that book. It always felt unnatural.

I always liked Juggernaut as a simple thug. I thought it was a good contrast to what was then the moral, calm approached Xavier (who did not have a physical power). Juggernaut was a thug with the power of a god and also was driven by petty things like greed or vengeance. I never bought his attempts at redemption because they just made him boring, another two-ton superhero. Better a simple schtick that is more unique than a more complex one that isn't.

 

[Manic]

Juggernaut's return to thughood actually made me drop X-Men Legacy. Because god forbid any progression to his character stick...

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't mind it, myself. Yeah, technically it's a regression, but going off of New Excalibur's deal with him reclaiming his full power only by surrendering himself to fulfilling Cyttorak's wishes for more destruction, it's a fairly organic regression. Plus, to be honest, I really like the Juggernaut more as a villain.

 

[Dread]

Making villains into heroes almost never works long term. Venom has never recovered from his half decade of anti-heroism. Sandman is back where he started and he probably was at it the longest. Juggernaut seems to have more purpose as a bad guy contrast to Xavier than just another super strong hero. One could suppose the idea of a hero who actually gets weaker with every good deed he does, as Cytorrak rewards destruction, is interesting, but only to a point.

Think about it like this. Juggernaut's foray into heroism was at least followed up on for several years and several titles. Thing got together with his old fiance Alicia Masters and it was barely followed up on A MONTH after THE THING ended.

 

[Galact-Gal]

I think most people are irritated by the Kyle & Yost slaughter spree on NEW X-MEN, not THE 198, which they didn't write (I believe).

Basically, a pair of other writers had relaunched NEW MUTANTS and it merged into ACADEMY X and so forth. It had a sprawling teen cast and was akin to "X-Men as Hogwarts" only with more teen soap and less action. It may have been akin to X-FORCE by the late 90's before Milligan got aboard and turned it into X-STATIX. It needed a kick in the rear to move things in the drama department up a notch.

Kyle and Yost got aboard and instead of a kick in the rear, they gave it an atomic bomb to the face. While M-Day gutted the book by depowering half the cast, Yost & Kyle's brilliant idea was to make the stakes higher by killing off supporting characters left and right, then mutilating the rest. What they failed to understand is that simply made it a horror show where you roll your eyes every time Jason Vorhees stabs a co-ed, or something. The term "overkill" is too subtle.

They have been capable of solid work on TV (X-MEN EVOLUTION, and FANTASTIC FOUR: WGH overall) and Yost has written some good mini's. But I may add they've hardly lit TV screens ablaze in DTV glory yet. Everyone is predicting HULK VS. will finally be a Marvel LG hit, and it only took 4-5 tries.

Honestly, I think they've written for TV so long that they seem unable to grasp anything greater because network censorship has been internalized. But, that's just me. Simply going for gore does not make a work above Saturday Morning fare.



Let's say Cyclops has been acting so off lately that nearly everyone presumed he was the X-Men's "token Skrull" during SECRET INVASION. That should have revealed something.

I only read the first issue of Secret Invasion X-Men. Did they have a token Skrull? If so, who was it? If not, was there a reason given as why they didn't?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Probably not. I bet the Skrulls figured that Cyclops would wind up killing everyone in the mutant community off eventually.

 

[Manic]

I only read the first issue of Secret Invasion X-Men. Did they have a token Skrull? If so, who was it? If not, was there a reason given as why they didn't?

There was no Skrull in the X-Men. Cyclops made a point in saying that there couldn't possibly be a Skrull in their ranks, or the Skrull would've seen them coming during the San Francisco invasion. The Skrull were caught totally by surprise.

Also, the story concluded with [blackout]Beast adjusting a sample of the Legacy Virus to only attack Skrulls. The X-Men then rubbed it all over themselves and let themselves gets captured. In order to stop the virus from spreading to the rest of their race, the Skrulls in San Francisco all killed themselves.[/blackout]

So if there even was a Skrull in the X-Men, they're either dead or will die soon.

 

[GyLocke]

I like crazed militant leader Scott. Sure they'll figure out a way to *****fy him again, but the **** he did during secret invasion was cold. I just hope they don't go overboard with his death squads and biological warfare and whatnot. Just keep him pragmatic.

 

[Manic]

Cyclops: "I hate you, Charles! I used to look up to you as a morally righteous role model, but it turns out you've done horrible things, like make us forget people who died! Now if you'll excuse me, I have to send Wolverine on a mission to assassinate my only son."