Should the United States Police the World?

[SV Fan]

I don't call it coincidence at all, I call it, their biggest ally in the world, the BIGGEST ally that is allowing them to continue their attacks, continue to win in their civil war, continue to give the leadership of Syria the chance to STAY IN LEADERSHIP asked them to do this, and Putin did it with a very well scripted op ed (written by a well known publicity group that Russia uses here in the US) to make the US look as weak as possible....yes, we look weak. : )

Obama got exactly what he wanted without lifting a finger(Syria to remove chemical weapons). As for looking "weak" the only people who care about crap like that are people who feel like we should are the "world police" and this somehow ruins that

 

[Kelly]

Obama got exactly what he wanted without lifting a finger(Syria to remove chemical weapons). As for looking "weak" the only people who care about crap like that are people who feel like we should are the "world police" and this somehow ruins that

Hmmmm...looks at how I voted? and 100% of my posts on this and other subjects about the US and its foreign policy.

 

[Cosmic]

Obama is not weak. Some of the political pundits and anti-Obama politicians keep repeating this and want us all to believe it, but they don't live in the real world...they live in a sort of bubble, or echo chamber. If you watch cable news for too long, it's going to cause serious harm to your brain.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Weak is a pretty good word for Obama. Hell, I'd argue it's being a bit charitable, really.

This civil war has been going on for two years. Obama didn't want to do anything. Then he set that silly red line, which was obviously empty rhetoric.

Then he got caught in it when that red line was crossed. He had to do something, but didn't want to take the initiative himself, so he handed it over to congress.

Then Kerry made that comment, which Putin jumped on. Then Obama made that ridiculous address.

What more he can do to embarrass himself, I don't know.

 

[Kelly]

Obama is not weak. Some of the political pundits and anti-Obama politicians keep repeating this and want us all to believe it, but they don't live in the real world...they live in a sort of bubble, or echo chamber. If you watch cable news for too long, it's going to cause serious harm to your brain.

Actually it was "my opinion" didn't really have anything to do with what anyone else said. That is kind of how perceptions go...

Hmmm...guess I better move to the "real world"

 

[Cosmic]

Weak is a pretty good word for Obama. Hell, I'd argue it's being a bit charitable, really.

This civil war has been going on for two years. Obama didn't want to do anything. Then he set that silly red line, which was obviously empty rhetoric.

Right, it's a civil war. Most of us didn't want him to do anything in Syria's civil war! The red line was embarrassing, but it's ultimately not that big of a deal. These guys are committing all sorts of atrocities on both sides. It was only a matter of time before someone took it to the next level.

Then he got caught in it when that red line was crossed. He had to do something, but didn't want to take the initiative himself, so he handed it over to congress.

I don't know, man. I'm glad they didn't act unilaterally and against the will of the people. This move also had the added benefit of stalling for time, which was obviously used to hash things out with the other major players. I think he's cautious, not weak.

Then Kerry made that comment, which Putin jumped on. Then Obama made that ridiculous address.

What more he can do to embarrass himself, I don't know.

If anyone looks ridiculous, it's Putin. He's a huge hypocrite and power monger who silences, imprisons and kills people who dare to dissent.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Putin is a sociopath, and he acts accordingly.

Obama just looks like an empty suit. He shouldn't have set a red line if he wasn't going to enforce it.

You really seem to giving him more benefit than he deserves. Half of this was him cluelessly stumbling around.

Now Putin is scoring points off his blunders at America's expense.

He is simply inept when it comes to foreign policy.

 

[Kelly]

And yet Cosmic, I bet if you asked people in the UN, they would have a more favorable view of Putin right now than Obama.

That is how perception works...I don't think you guys get that. I know Obama doesn't.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Though in fairness, half the UN is made up of sociopaths.

 

[Cosmic]

Syria is a messed up situation. Nobody really knows how to solve it. People keep second-guessing and playing armchair quarterback, but in the end, all they do is talk and criticize. I don't care all that much about Obama's stumbles. I never saw him as this great leader, far from it. As long as he does the right thing, then I'm satisfied. In this case, it was avoiding war while still pressuring Syria and her allies to at least halt the use of chemical weapons.

 

[Kelly]

Though in fairness, half the UN is made up of sociopaths.

They still have a perception of facts don't they?

I can't stand the UN, but realistically they are still the voice of the world as a political entity and until that changes I have to see them as a factor in the global political realm.

 

[Kelly]

Syria is a messed up situation. Nobody really knows how to solve it. People keep second-guessing and playing armchair quarterback, but in the end, all they do is talk and criticize. I don't care all that much about Obama's stumbles. I never saw him as this great leader, far from it. As long as he does the right thing, then I'm satisfied. In this case, it was avoiding war while still pressuring Syria and her allies to at least halt the use of chemical weapons.

Hey as long as we don't get involved, I'm cool....that was my position from the start.

 

[Cosmic]

And yet Cosmic, I bet if you asked people in the UN, they would have a more favorable view of Putin right now than Obama.

That is how perception works...I don't think you guys get that. I know Obama doesn't.

Kelly, I hate the UN as it currently stands. I wouldn't ask their opinion on anything!

And I have to disagree...I think Obama understands perception very well. This is a complex game that involves many different governments and factions, and he has to consider all of their roles. It's not always going to come together neatly, and the problems won't be solved with a speech or a military attack.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Syria is a messed up situation. Nobody really knows how to solve it. People keep second-guessing and playing armchair quarterback, but in the end, all they do is talk and criticize. I don't care all that much about Obama's stumbles. I never saw him as this great leader, far from it. As long as he does the right thing, then I'm satisfied. In this case, it was avoiding war while still pressuring Syria and her allies to at least halt the use of chemical weapons.

Given Obama's inaction for two years, I think a bit of criticism is only fair, even if I do it from my armchair.

He's doing his stumbling from an armchair too after all.

 

[Kelly]

Kelly, I hate the UN as it currently stands. I wouldn't ask their opinion on anything!

And I have to disagree...I think Obama understands perception very well. This is a complex game that involves many different governments and factions, and he has to consider all of their roles. It's not always going to come together neatly, and the problems won't be solved with a speech or a military attack.

If he did, he would not have done something as simple to remedy as playing a round of golf after making the decision to bomb Syria. Which he did within minutes of that decision being declared. Then because of the outcry of our citizenry he decides to go to congress, changing within a few days the "strongly worded" speech of a few days before, a "strongly worded" speech that was over a year after another "strongly worded" speech with a "red line" attached, that he later says was not given by him. Then after his Secretary of State makes a comment that an adversary that has already made him look bad over another loosely lead issue, again makes him appear less the leader.

So, though golf is not a big deal, though people change their minds all the time....perception does not follow the rules. They are simply the truth that people take from what they see.

Perception is people's truth, whether he meant for any of it to come across as it did, though he "I'm truly positive in believing" that he takes the situation quite seriously, I have no doubt....the simple act of playing golf, changes the "perception". It may not be his feelings on the issue, but his "feelings", and because of sooooo many speeches and little action, his speeches no longer guide people's perception, stupid little things do, and that is a problem of leadership and lack of understanding of perception.

The same went with Bush and simply flying over New Orleans, rather than landing and walking the area within days of the hurricane Katrina. The facts were, the Federal government, under law has to wait for the Governor of said state to ask for help. The Governor of Louisiana did not ask for help in a timely manner therefore THE PERCEPTION was the Federal Government (Bush) did not care. Once the aid was sent, it was not effectively and efficiently given to those in need, again at the fault of the governor and mayor of said city. THE PERCEPTION, that the Federal Government (Bush) did not care. Then when he flies over, rather than landing (and it is a know FACT, that he has always hated the interruption in needed help when he comes on the scene. It is a total SHUT DOWN of those areas while he walks through them, he has always hated doing that....BUT THE PERCEPTION WAS he did not care. Not the facts, the perception was people's truth.

Obama has a problem with this as well...hence why his aids made it very clear to him that he needed to get on the ground in New Jersey, immediately after Sandy, even though it totally shut down for a time the work that was being done. Again, perception spoke loudly, and we saw it in the media very well.

 

[Thundercrack85]

You'd think with all the money, and all the Ivy League alums, that they would be better at this PR stuff.

 

[SV Fan]

You really seem to giving him more benefit than he deserves. Half of this was him cluelessly stumbling around.

Personally I think the whole giving up weapons was a preplanned agreement(sort of a Plan C when the people of America rejected doing anything in Syria) that was somewhat staged to try save face for everybody. I personally don't see how coming up with a diplomatic way to solve a problem is a negative(unless one is a beat on your chest to show your strength kind of person). Personally I think results are all that count and how you get their is not important(and in the case of Syria, the US got them to get rid of chemical weapons without doing anything)

 

[Kelly]

How you get there is not important, until the next time you need to come up with a diplomatic solution to possibly a bigger problem. So for now, yeah, I'm happy we are staying out of Syria and its all on Russia. Cool with me....that was what I wanted from the beginning, although it should have been France not Russia.

 

[Cosmic]

Nobody cares about Obama playing golf except people like Charles Krauthammer and Hannity and all their fans who live for the purpose of obsessively demonizing him. There are so many terrible things happening in the world every day! Maybe, the President should never play golf...or be seen enjoying himself away from work...for fear of being perceived as uncaring, or disinterested in the issues.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Just make sure Russia actually destroys those weapons and doesn't sell them to Iran or something.

 

[Kelly]

My prediction will be, Russia will take the weapons, we will think we will never see the weapons again, they will not be destroyed in any way......and there is always the possibility we will see them again, and Obama will do absolutely nothing in his remaining years to find out what happened to them, and our next President, Republican or Democrat will not either, in fact no one will until they turn up again, and then they will blame Bush....lmao

 

[Thundercrack85]

Well that's the problem with these chemical weapons, we've all signed treaties saying they will be destroyed - at some point... that process starts, and then stops. Then they just sit there, gathering dust.

The US still hasn't gotten rid of all its sarin gas. God only knows what the Russians have lying around.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

My prediction will be, Russia will take the weapons, we will think we will never see the weapons again, they will not be destroyed in any way......and there is always the possibility we will see them again, and Obama will do absolutely nothing in his remaining years to find out what happened to them, and our next President, Republican or Democrat will not either, in fact no one will until they turn up again, and then they will blame Bush....lmao

To be fair, most of things Bush gets blamed for started on his watch.

The Iraq War, Gitmo, the Patriot Act, 9-11, FEMA during Hurricane Katrina, the housing bubble/recession, etc.

 

[SV Fan]

To be fair, most of things Bush gets blamed for started on his watch.

The Iraq War, Gitmo, the Patriot Act, 9-11, FEMA during Hurricane Katrina, the housing bubble/recession, etc.

I will give Bush a little leeway on 2 of these.

9-11 is not something that just built up in 9 months(although he could have taken the warnings in the summer much better)

housing bubble/recession - A huge part that lead to this was repealing glass steagell which was done on Clinton's watch

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

C'mon.

Bush had 8 years to avoid the housing bubble.