Should the West adopt an isolationist stance towards the Middle East?

[The Overlord]

With intervention in the Middle East becomming increasing unpopular both in the West and the ME, should the West adopt an isolationist attitude towards the Middle East?

I know this not feasible at this point, with Western dependence on oil, but should it be investigated should the west ever develop an aliterinative fuel source?

 

[blind_fury]

impossible.

We need oil.

 

[Addendum]

If the isolationist attitude allows for one to make bets on "the first ME country that ceases to exist", "the type of weaponry used", and an over/under of how many people die, then count me in the isolationist group

 

[The Overlord]

impossible.

We need oil.

Okay, I have admended the question to take that into consideration.

 

[Matt]

I don't know why people think the Saudis would quit selling their oil to us if we stopped being Israel's shield and sword. Hell, they'd probably be more willing to deal.

 

[Danny No-Shame]

Oil. Is that all you people think about? How will we run our 4x4s down to the local Taco Bell?

America is the problem. Sorry, that's the truth. There is no inherent right to over-consume natural resources, especially when they don't belong to you. America has no right to dictate how others live or what prices they set for their produce, or to steal what they can't have by fair means. America is consuming the planet's resources at a rate that will leave the rest of the world without. America needs to stop acting like it's superior to everyone else.

There are more alternatives than just intervention and isolationism. Engagement is one.

Not because you want something, but because the only way to solve our collective, long-term problems is to understand that there is no West and Middle East. Just Earth.

Klaatu barada nikto

 

[Halcohol]

Oil. Is that all you people think about? How will we run our 4x4s down to the local Taco Bell?

America is the problem. Sorry, that's the truth. There is no inherent right to over-consume natural resources, especially when they don't belong to you. America has no right to dictate how others live or what prices they set for their produce, or to steal what they can't have by fair means. America is consuming the planet's resources at a rate that will leave the rest of the world without. America needs to stop acting like it's superior to everyone else.

There are more alternatives than just intervention and isolationism. Engagement is one.

Not because you want something, but because the only way to solve our collective, long-term problems is to understand that there is no West and Middle East. Just Earth.

I deleted your last sentence because it was stupid. The rest of this post, despite the fact that it is an off-topic attack on the United States, is right on the money. This is bigger than the USA, it involves half the population of the planet.

Isolating ourselves from the Middle East would be a bad idea, simply because they NEED us to keep pouring money into their economies. The Western Hemisphere is the rich half of the planet, and it's only fair in the evolution of mankind that we spread the wealth around the globe as best we can to allow all of us the same opportunities for personal and societal growth.

I do believe in the USA and other Western nations promoting the formation of a Middle East security force similar to NORAD, with it being mostly run by the Saudis and the Egyptians to enforce the peace between Israel and Palestine, Jordan and Iran, and to help secure the civil disputes in Iraq.

 

[SapphirePrima]

No. It wouldn't solve anything.

 

[triplefive]

I deleted your last sentence because it was stupid. The rest of this post, despite the fact that it is an off-topic attack on the United States, is right on the money. This is bigger than the USA, it involves half the population of the planet.

Isolating ourselves from the Middle East would be a bad idea, simply because they NEED us to keep pouring money into their economies. The Western Hemisphere is the rich half of the planet, and it's only fair in the evolution of mankind that we spread the wealth around the globe as best we can to allow all of us the same opportunities for personal and societal growth.

I do believe in the USA and other Western nations promoting the formation of a Middle East security force similar to NORAD, with it being mostly run by the Saudis and the Egyptians to enforce the peace between Israel and Palestine, Jordan and Iran, and to help secure the civil disputes in Iraq.

1) if that's the case, it won't be for long... india and china hit the ground running.

and

2) you have to be careful to make sure that providing opportunities for growth doesn't mean westernizing the other countries. not everyone's social ideals are what we value in the west.

 

[ScottyBBadd]

If the isolationist attitude allows for one to make bets on "the first ME country that ceases to exist", "the type of weaponry used", and an over/under of how many people die, then count me in the isolationist group

I say let them bomb each other into the stone age. It will not kill another U.S. soldier, and once they wipe each other out we swoop in and take then oil.

 

[Halcohol]

1) if that's the case, it won't be for long... india and china hit the ground running.

Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how the two most populous nations on the planet assert themselves on the international stage. I for one would like to see them both take greater power in the United Nations. Perhaps adding India to the security council wouldn't be a bad idea, as it has as many citizens as Britain and France put together.

you have to be careful to make sure that providing opportunities for growth doesn't mean westernizing the other countries. not everyone's social ideals are what we value in the west.

Oh, totally. I didn't mean pouring in Western values and the capitalistic American "me-first" attitude. The idea is not to fundamentally alter another society's foundation, but to allow that society to change and evolve with greater purchasing power and economic strength as it normally would.

I say let them bomb each other into the stone age. It will not kill another U.S. soldier, and once they wipe each other out we swoop in and take then oil.

They're people, too. If America was in the middle of another depression, would you be happy to hear that people in the Middle East wanted you to kill each other so they could come in and take your land? Because that's how they view Americans.

You have to understand that only a small fraction of the population of the Middle East falls under the "extremist" category. The number of American ultra-Christians like Pat Roberts and Ted Haggard (is that his name?) are probably equal with the number of Islamic fundamentalists who want to see America wiped off the map. The USA isn't 100% correct in picking this fight, you see.

 

[triplefive]

isolation (read: turning a blind eye) is not the answer, but neither is the iraq war and all the posturing the US is doing over there because force-feeding democracy doesn't seem to be working.

... but i also don't have an answer. damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

[Halcohol]

don't worry, I got nothin, either. We're all screwed.

 

[Addendum]

They're people, too. If America was in the middle of another depression, would you be happy to hear that people in the Middle East wanted you to kill each other so they could come in and take your land?

I'd be too busy trying to eke out a living and the opinions of people in other parts of the world would be on "the list of things I don't give a damn about"

 

[ScottyBBadd]

They're people, too. If America was in the middle of another depression, would you be happy to hear that people in the Middle East wanted you to kill each other so they could come in and take your land? Because that's how they view Americans.

You have to understand that only a small fraction of the population of the Middle East falls under the "extremist" category. The number of American ultra-Christians like Pat Roberts and Ted Haggard (is that his name?) are probably equal with the number of Islamic fundamentalists who want to see America wiped off the map. The USA isn't 100% correct in picking this fight, you see.

That comment was tounge firmly planted in cheek. I do realize a small percentage of the Islamic population are extremists. I happen to know a few that are not extremists. Like you said there are as many Christian extremeist as Islamic extremists. Is the U.S. 100% right in picking this fight...no, but sometimes do it to them before they can do it to ou. However, I wish we would just their problems are their problems.

 

[The Overlord]

Oil. Is that all you people think about? How will we run our 4x4s down to the local Taco Bell?

America is the problem. Sorry, that's the truth. There is no inherent right to over-consume natural resources, especially when they don't belong to you. America has no right to dictate how others live or what prices they set for their produce, or to steal what they can't have by fair means. America is consuming the planet's resources at a rate that will leave the rest of the world without. America needs to stop acting like it's superior to everyone else.

There are more alternatives than just intervention and isolationism. Engagement is one.

Not because you want something, but because the only way to solve our collective, long-term problems is to understand that there is no West and Middle East. Just Earth.

Klaatu barada nikto

That's naive, how are we supposed to be engage societies that insist on living in the Middle Ages? Even secular dictatorships over there pass very socially conservative laws to please their public. Social conversative laws that oppress homosexusals for example seem very popular in the ME.

They can't even engage with eachother, look at all the internal fighting going on over there: Hamas vs. Fatah, Shiites vs. Sunnis, everyone vs. the Kurds. They can't get along with eachother, how are they supposed to get along with us.

I don't like the fact the US promotes unseemly elements in the ME to get more oil, but let's not put all the blame on the US. US screwed around with South America and South America is way less screwed up than the ME, US foreign policy may have made problems in the ME worse, but most those problems existed before the US got involved. The ME after a while has take responsiblity and solve their own problems rather than trying to blame everything on scape goats. Besides if we ignored the ME, we wouldn't be exploiting them, so there, so what are you complaing about about now?

 

[Dark Vigilante]

Oil. Is that all you people think about? How will we run our 4x4s down to the local Taco Bell?

America is the problem. Sorry, that's the truth. There is no inherent right to over-consume natural resources, especially when they don't belong to you. America has no right to dictate how others live or what prices they set for their produce, or to steal what they can't have by fair means. America is consuming the planet's resources at a rate that will leave the rest of the world without. America needs to stop acting like it's superior to everyone else.

There are more alternatives than just intervention and isolationism. Engagement is one.

Not because you want something, but because the only way to solve our collective, long-term problems is to understand that there is no West and Middle East. Just Earth.

Klaatu barada nikto

Nicely said

 

[Kritish]

At the moment we cannot, due to oil. I think that someday if the climate is still the same in the middle east we should. We should do it now with Africa, our foreign aid does jack crap over there.

 

[Arkady Rossovich]

We Europeans know to leave the Middle East alone,America is learning their lesson now.Oil or not,no nation will bother with the Middle East..at least until they are all gone,then fighting will begin over the oil.

 

[Kritish]

We Europeans know to leave the Middle East alone,America is learning their lesson now.Oil or not,no nation will bother with the Middle East..at least until they are all gone,then fighting will begin over the oil.

You're confusing the Iraq war with the war on terror. This current war with Iraq is doomed to be the next Vietnam. The war on terror is something we could have avoided if he hadn't helped Afganistan during its war if Russia (typical cold war bull****).

 

[Dark Vigilante]

What we should really do is convert our energy into corn oil. Its completely feasible, and it would be much cheaper than oil, and obviously much friendlier to the environment. Then we can tell the Middle East to go **** itself and stay away from us.

 

[triplefive]

What we should really do is convert our energy into corn oil. Its completely feasible, and it would be much cheaper than oil, and obviously much friendlier to the environment. Then we can tell the Middle East to go **** itself and stay away from us.

...while the majority of the rest of the world, unable to afford new technology, continues to use conventional fuel and the middle eastern countries get super rich by supplying them, and the US economy suffers because it doesn't get a cut.

and american companies fail because they can't do business in the burgeoning middle east.


yes, turning your back on them is the solution.

 

[Dark Vigilante]

...while the majority of the rest of the world, unable to afford new technology, continues to use conventional fuel and the middle eastern countries get super rich by supplying them, and the US economy suffers because it doesn't get a cut.

and american companies fail because they can't do business in the burgeoning middle east.


yes, turning your back on them is the solution.

Well some sort of drastic switch to an environmentally safe alternative fuel will be needed soon anyways if we are to survive as a planet.

Priorities.

 

[triplefive]

Well some sort of drastic switch to a environmentally safe alternative fuel will be needed soon anyways if we are to survive as a planet.

Priorities.

this is true; i'm certainly not arguing that part of the statement.

 

[Kritish]

What we should really do is convert our energy into corn oil. Its completely feasible, and it would be much cheaper than oil, and obviously much friendlier to the environment. Then we can tell the Middle East to go **** itself and stay away from us.

Corn oil is propaganda produced by the farmers of the world. We don't have the landspace for all of that corn to be grown. We would need a plot of land the size of Brazil to fuel the world, and what happens if there is some kind of plague or insect overload that ruins most of the crops?