Siege

[chris moore]

That Steve said to the whole team that the reason he chose Spidey was because of Power and Responsibility is nice in that it reminds them all that he's more than quips and webs.

Logan's violence can be useful in occasions like in the New Avengers finale - if its a guy with a healing factor, virtually impenetrable skin, or armour or something, then he can cut loose. Logan tends to just dive in slashing at everything (largely because its a good visual for the artist), so I've never really thought "Yep - definitely worthy of the 'one of the best fighters in the MU' title he seemingly has". But it could be thought of that his training makes him fight with his claws out, but only cutting guns, armour etc and the rest of the time he blocks with them, throws elbows, knees and kicks and things.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

and "selflessness" too.

"the quality of not putting yourself first but being willing to give your time or money or effort etc. for others"

That's a heroic quality.

True. I haven't seen much of it from Wolverine and I don't personally think it makes up for the "ruthlessness" part, which makes it sound like Steve is ready and willing to use Wolverine as his personal lethal weapon the way Iron Man was in New Avengers (against Steve's wishes at the time), but selflessness is certainly heroic.

That Steve said to the whole team that the reason he chose Spidey was because of Power and Responsibility is nice in that it reminds them all that he's more than quips and webs.

Logan's violence can be useful in occasions like in the New Avengers finale - if its a guy with a healing factor, virtually impenetrable skin, or armour or something, then he can cut loose. Logan tends to just dive in slashing at everything (largely because its a good visual for the artist), so I've never really thought "Yep - definitely worthy of the 'one of the best fighters in the MU' title he seemingly has". But it could be thought of that his training makes him fight with his claws out, but only cutting guns, armour etc and the rest of the time he blocks with them, throws elbows, knees and kicks and things.

Uh... yeah, I guess you could look at it that way, but that's not what's shown most of the time. Wolverine kills people. Period. That is his response to pretty much anyone who shows hostility to him. He gave up fighting that animalistic "kill or be killed" nature a long time ago.

I'm still not personally a fan of Spider-Man as an Avenger, either. I think he belongs more with street-level crowd like Daredevil and such. That was the context I always enjoyed him in most when I was reading his comics.

 

[Eros]

That Steve said to the whole team that the reason he chose Spidey was because of Power and Responsibility is nice in that it reminds them all that he's more than quips and webs.

Considering what happened in the spider-man comics a few years ago, I laugh when I hear Power and responsibility in the same sentence as spider-man.Im sure Uncle Ben is still shakeing his head in disgust in heaven.

 

[chris moore]

True. I haven't seen much of it from Wolverine and I don't personally think it makes up for the "ruthlessness" part, which makes it sound like Steve is ready and willing to use Wolverine as his personal lethal weapon the way Iron Man was in New Avengers (against Steve's wishes at the time), but selflessness is certainly heroic.

Uh... yeah, I guess you could look at it that way, but that's not what's shown most of the time. Wolverine kills people. Period. That is his response to pretty much anyone who shows hostility to him. He gave up fighting that animalistic "kill or be killed" nature a long time ago.

I'm still not personally a fan of Spider-Man as an Avenger, either. I think he belongs more with street-level crowd like Daredevil and such. That was the context I always enjoyed him in most when I was reading his comics.

I try to put a bit of a spin on it so I don't start hating reading the Avengers titles because Steve Rogers has started endorsing Wolverine gutting people as the public face of the heroic age, and that Spidey's Avengers status will be completely ignored in his own books because they still seem to exist in their own little limbo world.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I'm fully expecting to drop Avengers by the end of the first arc at this point anyway, so I don't really care about it anymore.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

You're gonna drop Avengers Corp? Hmmm that's baffling, to be honest. I thought you loved the Avengers.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I do love the Avengers, but I was always skeptical that Bendis could do a good job with them. As of the first issue of their new series, he hasn't. I'm giving him the rest of this first arc before I decide whether to drop it or keep it, but at the moment I'm leaning way more toward the former.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Fair enough. I thought the first ish was pretty decent though. Bringing back a proper old school Avengers villain in Kang... it felt, well, proper old school. To me anyway

I'm more interested in S.A personally though.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

It felt like Bendis was trying to go for old-school but botched it because he's Bendis. Some random new punks from a terrible animated movie apparently kill Immortus, Wonder Man turns into a giant a**hole for no apparent reason, the Avengers stand around talking for half the issue, Kang shows up and stands around talking with them while holding some supposed doomsday device that we never get any sense of real danger from for the rest of the issue, and then it ends. Typical Bendis comic but not something I would ever want to see applied to the Avengers. Even with the funny/badass moment Bendis gave Thor, I still didn't think too highly of it.

I'm looking forward to Secret Avengers as well. If the rest of Bendis' first Avengers arc is like the first issue, SA will likely be my "main" Avengers series for the foreseeable future, along with the school stuff of Avengers Academy.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Yea i agree about the treatment of Wonderman to be fair. I bet he ends up being a villain, some blatant foreshadowing there.

But overall i thought it was good. Definitely room for improvement though.

Who would you prefer to be writing Avengers now? I'd like Waid to come on board.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Waid would make my heart explode from excitement. Fred Van Lente, Chris Gage, or Jeff Parker would be awesome as well. Parker is especially great at balancing team dynamics, if his Agents of Atlas stuff is any indication.

But, of course, Waid is busy managing and writing multiple comics for Boom, Gage has Avengers Academy already, and neither Van Lente nor Parker have big enough names to anchor what has effectively become the main Marvel franchise of the decade. And, in fairness, Bendis did basically build its key franchise status all by himself. I may not have liked... um, anything from his time doing so, but I respect that he did build their status.

 

[fifthfiend]

Get Keith Giffen to write the Avengers the way he writes Space Marvel.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

But then he'd kill off major characters every other issue.

DnA could probably rock a badass Avengers comic, though.

 

[chris moore]

I agree that the risk with Bendis and the Avengers is that Bendis is great at street level super affairs. But he has yet to demonstrate what I guess we'd term 'old school' Avengering (at the risk of those of us complaining about the very 70's era style of Spidey nowadays having double standards of wanting cosmic level, world conquering avengers stories but modern, why does a 26yr old science genius still not have any kind of job spidey stories). Slott on the other hand has handled both very well. And Brubaker, and to a lesser degree (cos I forget what old school type stories he's done) PAD

 

[fifthfiend]

kill off major characters every other issue.

DnA

...granted, it'd be alternated with the issues where they bring people back to life.

 

[Spider-Jay420]

Marvel shoulda let Slott write Avengers and let bendis write his pet Characters in New. I know some folks weren't that impressed with Slott's old school Avengers tales, but I think alot of that had to do with the cast he was given. If Slott was able to have Cap, Thor, Iron Man, Spidey and Wolverine he woulda rocked that ****.

 

[fifthfiend]

They shoulda let him write it as long as he promised not to get all weird about Hank Pym again.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

...granted, it'd be alternated with the issues where they bring people back to life.

At least DnA do it a lot better. They know death ain't a thing in comics, so they don't mine it for dramatic tension that just falls flat. Death is just a step along the way in their arcs, so when they undo it later on, it works really well. Quasar dies in Annihilation and then returns via the quantum bands as living quantum energy--awesome. Half the Guardians are taken out by Adam Magus only to find that Magus faked the whole thing to go off the grid and buy himself time--awesome. Vulcan and Black Bolt kill each other but create the Fault--awesome. There is a clear trend here.

 

[SouLeSS]

Adam Warlock, not Adam Magus.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

He did that as Magus though.

 

[kguillou]

Marvel shoulda let Slott write Avengers and let bendis write his pet Characters in New. I know some folks weren't that impressed with Slott's old school Avengers tales, but I think alot of that had to do with the cast he was given. If Slott was able to have Cap, Thor, Iron Man, Spidey and Wolverine he woulda rocked that ****.

I fully agree dude. I myself wasnt a fan of Slott's Mighty Avengers, but again i think part of that was because of the limited amount of toys he was given to play with. That and the art on the book looked so bland to me. It didnt have that dynamic look that New Avengers had. That said, Slott is really good with Spider-man and i bet he could write the hell out of a book starring Cap, Ironman, Thor, spidey and wolverine. But alas, Bendis is running the show unfortunately. Seriously i used to be a bendis fan but the guy is seriously wearing on me.

 

[Spider-Jay420]

I liked Slott's Mighty, but he was totally handicapped from the get go. He did good things with Pym. Weird things, but at least he showed what a hero he could be. Herc and Cho were great, and I didn't even read iHerc but I was into them as Avengers.

But Stature, fake Vision, and US Agent?! Are you kidding me? Who gives a **** about them?

I just wish Marvel woulda went to bat for him, instead of benching him for Bendis. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy Bendis' stuff, but give someone else a chance, dude. Bendis has had his wet dream Avengers starring Luke Cage and Spider Woman for how long now? C'mon, dude. Take a break.

Hopefully, he'll treat Avengers like he did Mighty, and bail after a few arcs so SOMEONE else, anyone competant, can play with the Avengers too.

 

[kguillou]

Speaking of taking a break, I would LOVE to see Slott write Ultimate Spider-man, i bet he could breathe a lot of life into that title but i digress, that'll never ever happen.

I think marvel's just playing it safe, they see Bendis as a high seller so they give him the big books like Avengers. The only other writer at marvel that could possibly take Bendis' place is Mark Millar or maybe, maybe Brubaker. But Marvel won't take the chance of handing Slott the keys to the kingdom and having it possibly tank in sales eventhough Slott's fanbase is growing. What were Slott's sales figures on MA anyway?

 

[Spider-Jay420]

I know. You're right. I'm not asking for Bendis to totally step down and relinquish his golden throne, but c'mon dude, share the toys a little bit, huh? Of the 4 Avengers books, he has to write BOTH the higher profile books? Only Bendis can steer the ship? No one else can handle it? C'mon.

I just hope Brubaker's sales blow Bendy's sale out of the water. And if their first issues are any indication, I think Bendis is in trouble.

And I'm Slott's sales were low. Too low to justify giving him another Avengers series again. I mean, hell, they didn't even give him Inititave take 2. That's gotta hurt. Again, if he could of had the players he actually wanted, instead of the has beens and leftovers that no one else wanted, he would've been more successful. Oh well.

 

[kguillou]

I kinda feel a little guilty for that myself. I remember back when they released the first covers for Slott's Mighty Avengers and i got so amped because it had Ironman, Hulk, Scarlet Witch and US Agent. I didnt really care about the other characters but it seemed like a badass lineup. Then once I learned that Ironman and Hulk were temporary and Scarlet Witch wasn't actually Scarlet Witch, my interest in the book vanished. I think if Slott actually had those characters, the book would have been much more successful. I just couldnt bring myself to read a book about Hank Pym, Stature and Vision Jr.