Sequels Sinister Six in ASM3

[NewYorkSpider]

That's a good question. I could see them trying something different to avoid an all male Sinister Six, but I could also see them not breaking away from the comics. She's never been apart of the group if memory serves me right.

 

[Jake Hennessey]

i'm not sure if this is true or not but i read that harry in the green goblin in this movie

 

[Super Jim]

Just gonna throw this out there, take it with a grain of salt.

The Avengers film built a team around one of Whedon's goals not to have an all-male ensemble. Black Widow was thrown in despite her power level being substantially lower than most of the team and despite her not being an original Avenger in the comics.

Felicity Jones described her character as a "baddie." Whether she is Black Cat or Sable or some other baddie, does anyone think she will be part of the Sinister Six? To avoid an all-male Sinister Six?

I've speculated that one way to avoid having to deal with Spiderman having to battle so many villains (six) that one could be the Lizard, who could turn at the right time and either help Peter, take down one of the other Six or just run away, why the Black Cat could also be used as one of the Six as someone hired to steal something for Goblin or Osborn, and then, of course, she starts to fall for Peter and sees the error of her ways and turns on the Six to help Spiderman defeat them.

Many are worried that the Sinister Six is too many bad guys, but by using the Lizard and Black Cat, along with the four that will be (maybe) shown in TASM2, it's not so bad. We'll know the Lizard, Rhino, Electro and Goblin. Adrien Toomes should at least be introduced (I suspect) in TASM2, so the Vulture's origin won't be too difficult. Add Black Cat as a hired thief and we're there.

The changes are really like this:

- Goblin instead of Doc Ock as the leader/mastermind
- Rhino instead of Sandman as muscle
- The Lizard in place of Mysterio
- Black Cat in place of Kraven

I know many would be upset having Sinister Six without Mysterio and/or Kraven, but that would likely mean that they would be main villains in future TASM movies, right? Kraven's Last Stand could easily make it as a stand alone, and so could Mysterio...

The main point is that Black Cat and Lizard allows the movie to be promoted as Sinister Six, but really it's Sinister Four, which isn't as difficult, especially if done over 2-3 movies (since we now know they are looking at TASM4).

As far as canon...

Doc Ock originally tried to get Green Goblin and the Lizard to be part of the group, but they didn't join. Lizard didn't have a vendetta against Spiderman, and Goblin felt he could take him down himself. But these two were at least part of the story and could easily replace Doc Ock and another, like Sandman.

Also, a female has never been part of the Sinister Six, which is surprising.

I do believe that even if they just introduce Black Cat as a supporting character that will help Spidey take on the Sinister Six, that the femal audience will be happy. They don;t need a female villain, not when they would have Gwen in TASM2, and MJ and Black Cat in TASM3 & 4.

 

[The Infernal]

Lizard on a Sinister Six team wouldn't work. Especially on film. It would be near impossible to get him to work with other villains. I didn't even like it on the Ultimate Spider-man cartoon. Lizard may have been in a film already, but it would be silly to have him as part of the Sinister Six.

Having a couple of villains back story covered by previous movies is a good idea, but not all of them have to have been introduced already. Not every villain needs to have an entire film dedicated to them to work.

Also a female is currently a member of the Sinister Six. A female version of the Beetle. However, the character and the current iteration of the Sinister Six seems to be a joke version with the sole purpose of being the whipping boys/girl to the Superior Spider-man.

 

[Super Jim]

Lizard on a Sinister Six team wouldn't work. Especially on film. It would be near impossible to get him to work with other villains. I didn't even like it on the Ultimate Spider-man cartoon. Lizard may have been in a film already, but it would be silly to have him as part of the Sinister Six.

Having a couple of villains back story covered by previous movies is a good idea, but not all of them have to have been introduced already. Not every villain needs to have an entire film dedicated to them to work.

Also a female is currently a member of the Sinister Six. A female version of the Beetle. However, the character and the current iteration of the Sinister Six seems to be a joke version with the sole purpose of being the whipping boys/girl to the Superior Spider-man.

Guess I should have specified any of the original incarnations of the Sinister Six. The latest S6 is kind of a joke compared to the originals, including the Sinister Twelve...

I do agree with you that it helps to have one or two villains explained in the movie, while the others could be introduced/explained in the prior. So if the S6 turns out to be where they are going, as I believe, and it's now effectively a 2 parter (TASM3 and 4), then we could already have Rhino, Electro, Green Goblin, maybe the Vulture, Lizard and/or Black Cat.

Yes that could be the Six, but as you say certain members make more sense than others.

Vulture, for example, just has to be a member. As I've been saying all along, the moment Adrien Toomes is introduced you know we're heading towards an S6. And although it looks like Adrien might be introduced in TASM2, that doesn't mean that the Vulture will be. That story could be shown at the start of TASM3, very easily since Toomes would have already been introduced...

I do feel that Black Cat is a special character that has to find her way into this fanchise (and I think Felicity is going to be it). The other female villain you mention, the latest version of the Beetle, isn't a known villain and is very unlikely. Definitely not a top 10 Spidey villain, and likely not even a top 20. But Black Cat is up there and we need other strong female characters in these films once Gwen kicks it. Again, having Black Cat as part of the S6, initially, but turning on them, just makes good sense and allows the S6 without having to battle all 6 in one fight. Her switching and taking out the bully Rhino or the crazed Vulture (I could see her jumping on his back and covering his eyes, making him crash), ends up dealing with 2 out of 6.

I think a main question though is whether both the Rhino AND Electro would make it through TASM2 to be members...

It's hard for me to think they wouldn't want to use Electro in the Sinister Six since his powers and look are so special, but would you really want all of the threats from TASM2 back in TASM3?

If you look at most Super Hero movies nowadays, the villain usually dies.
- Spiderman 1, Green Goblin died.
- Spiderman 2, Doc Ock died.
- Spiderman 3, Harry died and Brock/Venom died (Brock definitely, Venom maybe).
- Batman Begins, Ra's died.
- The Dark Knight, Two Face died.
- The Dark Knight Rises, both Bane and Talia died.
- Ironman, Stane died.
- Ironman 2, Whiplash died.
- Ironman 3, the Mandarin (the real one) died

And so on, and so on.

In fact, the only two movies I can think of where the main antogonist did not die was X-men (Magneto was put in prison) and The Amazing Spiderman (Lizard put in prison).

So, will Electro and Rhino both survive TASM2 to be able to be part of the S6?

 

[GuestStar2004]

webb has already shown us that he won't just kill off a villian with TASM, even more so now he added ravencroft to the film universe

i think if the lizard was done under raimi he probably would have been killed off

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

Guess I should have specified any of the original incarnations of the Sinister Six. The latest S6 is kind of a joke compared to the originals, including the Sinister Twelve...

I do agree with you that it helps to have one or two villains explained in the movie, while the others could be introduced/explained in the prior. So if the S6 turns out to be where they are going, as I believe, and it's now effectively a 2 parter (TASM3 and 4), then we could already have Rhino, Electro, Green Goblin, maybe the Vulture, Lizard and/or Black Cat.

Yes that could be the Six, but as you say certain members make more sense than others.

Vulture, for example, just has to be a member. As I've been saying all along, the moment Adrien Toomes is introduced you know we're heading towards an S6. And although it looks like Adrien might be introduced in TASM2, that doesn't mean that the Vulture will be. That story could be shown at the start of TASM3, very easily since Toomes would have already been introduced...

I do feel that Black Cat is a special character that has to find her way into this fanchise (and I think Felicity is going to be it). The other female villain you mention, the latest version of the Beetle, isn't a known villain and is very unlikely. Definitely not a top 10 Spidey villain, and likely not even a top 20. But Black Cat is up there and we need other strong female characters in these films once Gwen kicks it. Again, having Black Cat as part of the S6, initially, but turning on them, just makes good sense and allows the S6 without having to battle all 6 in one fight. Her switching and taking out the bully Rhino or the crazed Vulture (I could see her jumping on his back and covering his eyes, making him crash), ends up dealing with 2 out of 6.

I think a main question though is whether both the Rhino AND Electro would make it through TASM2 to be members...

It's hard for me to think they wouldn't want to use Electro in the Sinister Six since his powers and look are so special, but would you really want all of the threats from TASM2 back in TASM3?

If you look at most Super Hero movies nowadays, the villain usually dies.
- Spiderman 1, Green Goblin died.
- Spiderman 2, Doc Ock died.
- Spiderman 3, Harry died and Brock/Venom died (Brock definitely, Venom maybe).
- Batman Begins, Ra's died.
- The Dark Knight, Two Face died.
- The Dark Knight Rises, both Bane and Talia died.
- Ironman, Stane died.
- Ironman 2, Whiplash died.
- Ironman 3, the Mandarin (the real one) died

And so on, and so on.

In fact, the only two movies I can think of where the main antogonist did not die was X-men (Magneto was put in prison) and The Amazing Spiderman (Lizard put in prison).

So, will Electro and Rhino both survive TASM2 to be able to be part of the S6?

Joker was the main antagonist in TDK.

I assume Electro and Rhino will both survive. Thus the intro of Ravencroft.

 

[JOE]

Spidey against the Sinister 6 would be an absolute spectacle.

 

[Super Jim]

Spidey against the Sinister 6 would be an absolute spectacle.

As in:

Spectacle: Something that can be seen or viewed, especially something of a remarkable or impressive nature.

or:

Spectacle: A regrettable public display, as of bad behavior: drank too much and made a spectacle of himself.

?

 

[JOE]

As in:

Spectacle: Something that can be seen or viewed, especially something of a remarkable or impressive nature.

or:

Spectacle: A regrettable public display, as of bad behavior: drank too much and made a spectacle of himself.

?

The first one, I hope...

 

[The Infernal]

Spider-man doesn't have many well known female villains to be fair. Plus while Black Cat might stray the line, she's not really what I'd call a villain. I'm not sure how great it would be to have Black Cat as part of the Sinister Six. I'm not really fond of folding her role of bad girl turned good into the Sinister Six storyline. I'd prefer an all villain line up myself.

Also I'm not entirely comfortable with adding a female just so a box is ticked. I'm all for more representation, but it shouldn't be just for the sake of it. With the Avengers there are a plethora of female heroes that deserve to be on that team so having none there would raise questions. Even now some question why Black Widow was the only one on the team. Personally I would love to see Spider-woman added at some point.

With the Siniser Six I'd be worried that it would crowbar a storyline into it that doesn't need to be there. Plus there are female characters that can be added in other parts of any TASM movie. Spider-man doesn't exactly want for female characters so it wouldn't be like there was no representation there. Not every group has to be balanced out like that.

 

[Super Jim]

^ I agree with you that as long as the female audience members have a female they can route for, things will be good. Right now they have Gwen. Once she dies there are many options for Spiderman depending on where they go with the story...

- Felicia Hardy/Black Cat - Possibly a love interest prior to MJ. Possibly a jelousy factor for MJ. Either way, she is a strong character that, like Catwoman, toes the line of right and wrong, but ultimately, and partly because of Peter, goes to the good side.

- Betty Brant - A good secondary character. Was a love interest for Peter (was really his first, before Gwen). Could play into a future storyline that includes Hobgoblin.

- Carlie Cooper - A strong police-officer character could easily fit in a franchise like this.

- Jean DeWolff - Again, a Captain in the Police Force could easily fit into this franchise.

In other realities there is Silver Sable and plenty of others. But the ones above are the main ones.

I don't think the villains, other than Blac Cat (kind of a baddie) need to be female, again, as long as there are strong female characters for the audience to root for...

 

[PeterBenParker]

With Sony planning 4 Spider-Man movies, I don't feel like it will stay at 4 and that it will actually go on to 6 Spider-Man movies.

I think there should be two trilogies (adding up our six in total, i.e. The Star Wars franchise, with the original trilogy and prequel trilogy) for this series, one being specifically for a main villain.

I also feel the planned spin-offs should appear somewhere throughout this series, such as Venom and Black Cat.

Here is how I would do it personally:

The Green Goblin/Oscorp/Untold Story Trilogy:

The Amazing Spider-Man - The Lizard
The Amazing Spider-Man 2 - Electro and Rhino
The Amazing Spider-Man 3 - Green Goblin and Chameleon

Symbiote/Venom Spin-Off:

Venom - Spider-Man
Venom: Lethal Protector - Carnage

Black Cat Spin-Off:

The Black Cat - Alistair Smythe

Master Plan/Doc Ock/Sinister Six Trilogy:

The Amazing Spider-Man 4 - Scorpion and Vulture
The Amazing Spider-Man 5 - Doc Ock and Mysterio
The Amazing Spider-Man vs. The Sinister Six - The Sinister Six (Doc Ock, Electro, Rhino, Mysterio, Scorpion, and Vulture)

Feel free to add any feedback, or what you would change in this list.

 

[Nicko-Ray]

Wait they're making 5? I thought they only announced up to 4.

 

[Super Jim]

I thought only 4 were confirmed as well. When the 4th was announced, so soon after Woodley being cut was announced, it seemed like they were just taking the planned 3 movies and putting it all into 4 (thus supporting this Sinister 6 idea of mine).

I have never read or heard anything about 5. So PeterBenParker, where'd you get 5?

As far as what I'd change in your list...

The first trilogy (now Quadilogy) should be like this:

The Amazing Spider-Man - The Lizard
The Amazing Spider-Man 2 - Electro and Rhino\ introduce Toomes/future Vulture & the Goblin (we don't need the "Green"). At this point we are pretty sure that this is what we're getting.
The Amazing Spider-Man 3/4 - The Sinister Six with Green Goblin as the boss man, along with the Vuluture, and another other 4 villains, which could include Rhino and/or Electro, and/or Lizard and/or Black Cat and/or Doc Ock and/or Mysterio and/or etc.

Next I wouldn't be counting on some Black Cat or Venom spin-off. The general audience just won't buy into that. You and I would be first in line, but not the general audience, and you kinda need them.

The Amazing Spider-Man 5 - The Symbiote/Black Suit, with the main villain(s) of Doc Ock and/or Mysterio and/or Alistair Smythe and/or Kraven the Hunter with Chamelion, etc. Pretty much a separate story, with a couple of baddies (Kraven & Chamelion would be great), with more Black Cat, MJ, etc. Introduce the whole Black Suit thing, but never show that it is alive...
The Amazing Spider-Man 6 - Eddie Brock/Venom. Black Suit/Symbiote resolution.
The Amazing Spider-Man 7 - Canage! Venom needed to stop the threat. Black Cat as well. Supporting baddies, such as Shriek. Make this one HUGE!!! Of course this wouldn't be until 2024!!!!!

 

[Green Goblin]

sinister six vs Spidey and Avengers would be beast

 

[PeterBenParker]

Wait they're making 5? I thought they only announced up to 4.

That was my bad, sorry. :P

 

[PeterBenParker]

I thought only 4 were confirmed as well. When the 4th was announced, so soon after Woodley being cut was announced, it seemed like they were just taking the planned 3 movies and putting it all into 4 (thus supporting this Sinister 6 idea of mine).

I have never read or heard anything about 5. So PeterBenParker, where'd you get 5?

As far as what I'd change in your list...

The first trilogy (now Quadilogy) should be like this:

The Amazing Spider-Man - The Lizard
The Amazing Spider-Man 2 - Electro and Rhino\ introduce Toomes/future Vulture & the Goblin (we don't need the "Green"). At this point we are pretty sure that this is what we're getting.
The Amazing Spider-Man 3/4 - The Sinister Six with Green Goblin as the boss man, along with the Vuluture, and another other 4 villains, which could include Rhino and/or Electro, and/or Lizard and/or Black Cat and/or Doc Ock and/or Mysterio and/or etc.

Next I wouldn't be counting on some Black Cat or Venom spin-off. The general audience just won't buy into that. You and I would be first in line, but not the general audience, and you kinda need them.

The Amazing Spider-Man 5 - The Symbiote/Black Suit, with the main villain(s) of Doc Ock and/or Mysterio and/or Alistair Smythe and/or Kraven the Hunter with Chamelion, etc. Pretty much a separate story, with a couple of baddies (Kraven & Chamelion would be great), with more Black Cat, MJ, etc. Introduce the whole Black Suit thing, but never show that it is alive...
The Amazing Spider-Man 6 - Eddie Brock/Venom. Black Suit/Symbiote resolution.
The Amazing Spider-Man 7 - Canage! Venom needed to stop the threat. Black Cat as well. Supporting baddies, such as Shriek. Make this one HUGE!!! Of course this wouldn't be until 2024!!!!!

My apologies! Accidentally put 5 rather than 4.

As far as your changes go, I like 'em a lot! You're right about the general public, but I think it could work because it is, technically, still Spider-Man. Just flash Spidey in trailers for both the Venom films and Black Cat, that could easily draw people in seats.

By the way though, the Venom spin-off is still planned somewhere in the franchise, so at least we could have that.

 

[PeterBenParker]

I have always felt that the Sinister Six should be saved for the last film of the franchise, so I see what you've done there Super Jim.

 

[amazingly atiba]

I would like a sinister six but at the same time I would like most of the villains to be developed and not all of them placed in raven croft like I want electro to be defeated and end his obsession and try to lead a normal life but is recruited bu Norman at the end just like all previous villains That spidey will face after tasm 2

 

[Super Jim]

I would like a sinister six but at the same time I would like most of the villains to be developed and not all of them placed in raven croft like I want electro to be defeated and end his obsession and try to lead a normal life but is recruited bu Norman at the end just like all previous villains That spidey will face after tasm 2

Right. I wonder how an after credits scene could be used to show this?

 

[amazingly atiba]

i dont know. i just dont want all the villians to be placed in ravencroft i want some to dtill try to lead normal lives

 

[JOE]

If there's a Sinister 6 movie why would it be in the third movie? It's confirmed they're doing at least 4, why rush it?

We've seen a Superhero team up, but never a Super villain team up.

TASM- 1
Every other CBM- 0

 

[Super Jim]

If there's a Sinister 6 movie why would it be in the third movie? It's confirmed they're doing at least 4, why rush it?

We've seen a Superhero team up, but never a Super villain team up.

TASM- 1
Every other CBM- 0

My belief is that by going to 4 movies they can take the same story that they were planning, one that was likely going to be a bit rushed and unwieldy, and split it over 2. This way having to battle 6 villains, with the epic finale against the Goblin, would not be rushed.

So it could be:

The Amazing Spiderman 2: (we'll see if they add more to the title - like "The Spark of Electro")

The Amazing Spiderman 3: The Sinister Six (part 1)

The Amazing Spiderman 4: The Sinister Six (part 2)

 

[GuestStar2004]

i dont know. i just dont want all the villians to be placed in ravencroft i want some to dtill try to lead normal lives

the justice system won't allow a super villian to live normal life after putting innocent people at risk