Comics So what books of Stracsynski's run on ASM makes people hate him?

[JesusOfNazarath]

Is it the sins past, The Other story line and the Iron Spidey suit? Do the people who hate those parts know it was Joe Q's idea for them? I agree those acrs were pretty bad, but the most of his run I thought was good. Anyways, I'm not trying to convince anybody to like his writing, I just want to know what people think.

 

[Cyclops]

It's Sins Past. Everybody would still love JMS if not for Sins Past.

And before you say "He changed Spidey's origin!", let me tell you that he never did. He made it obvious by the "Book of Ezekiel" arc that Ezekiel was the totem spider and he was throwing all the hunters onto Peter's trail to save his own neck.

"The Other" came along and ****ed with that but I don't fault JMS for it.

 

[JesusOfNazarath]

Yeah figured that Sins Past might have been the starting point. I read the most recent issue of Wizard today and in it said, JMS went to Joe saying that he wanted to have it be Petes baby, but Joe said nah lets make it Norman's. I'm guessing Joe didn't like JMS' idea cuz it "aged" him in kids eyes.

 

[Happenstance]

Sins Past was the start of the hatred for me but The Other just added to it. And I am still going to say that he did change Spideys origin despite what Cyclops says, we get his mystic curse, death, reborn, the stupid "other" thing talking to him. I hated it all and I hate the new suit and Pete being Starks lackey aswell.

 

[AmaznSpider-Fan]

No offense, but how many times is this going to be gone over.

I think the line has been clearly drawn over and over as to what arcs people hate. There are tons of threads covering this.

 

[LarryLegend]

I'd say the whole totem thing was the start but Sins Past was the straw that broke the camel's back.

 

[Norman Osborn]

Just to be clear...I don't hate Straz...I hate him on Spider-man

Molten Man 2 (Skin Deep) Not because the villain was silly and a "rip" of a silver age villain but because the characterization was absolutely brutal. The flashbacks showed Pete as an opportunistic *** who was willing to feed another "socially awkward" student to the lions (not to mention join in the hazing) for a few moments of bully reprieve. Fast forward to the future and you see a Parker who blindly endorses the experiments of this same guy, sight unseen. Then when he realizes the guy's experiments are on the brink of catastrophe and could wipe out the entire city...Pete angrily storms out with a "you have 24 hours" ultimatum!!....24 hours??....Uhmmm Pete...remember that whole "power and responsibility" thing??

This was the first evidence that Straz was really not on the ball as it pertains to Spidey......"Sins Past" and the "Other" although far worse than the aforementioned, have been beaten to death enough here.....Skin Deep has always been that initial test result that preceeded a whole lot of ailing!!

 

[Citizen_Kaine]

I got sick and tired of him after the first Morlun arc, the creation of ****ty villians that were reminiscant of the Original classic versions, that got killed off at the end of each issue. I hated how he ****ed up ASM 500, and I hated the lack of supporting cast and villains in general. His arcs bore me to tears anyway, Sins Past was just the point where everyone started notcing this

 

[Rez]

Sins Past and The Other. That's it.

Even though he had a few other poor arcs, the majority of his stuff is FANTASTIC, and every writer could be expected to have a few duds. But the sheer concepts brought up in Sins Past, and the total mess of the Other were both horrible, unfixable mistakes.

 

[Elijya]

Basicly: JMS + JRJr on ASM = Gold

JMS on ASM -JRJr = crap

 

[roach]

It's Sins Past. Everybody would still love JMS if not for Sins Past.

And before you say "He changed Spidey's origin!", let me tell you that he never did. He made it obvious by the "Book of Ezekiel" arc that Ezekiel was the totem spider and he was throwing all the hunters onto Peter's trail to save his own neck.

"The Other" came along and ****ed with that but I don't fault JMS for it.

I agree with this assessment. In fact I dont think Sins Past would be so hated if it was allowed to go to print as JMS wanted(the kids being Peter's)

 

[stillanerd]

Strike one--The 9/11 issue. Not because it should'nt have been made but because JMS used Spidey to basically spout the notion that the United States probably deserved what it got on September 11th because of the terrible mistakes committed in the past, implying that the terrorists actions were justifiable. To be fair, it did try to make an attempt at honoring the men and women who acted heroically that day.

Strike Two--Sins Past, more specifically part 4 where the actual revealation that Gwen slept with Norman Osborn because of his "personal magnetism" was revealed. Despite JMS claims it fit into continuity, there was no way it could have, and he had to essentially re-write long established characters and have them act out of character in order for the situation to work. Plus we got a lously Goblin knock-off and later the awful Sins Remembered arc.

Strike Three--The Other, and although that was a story by commitee, it not only confirmed that Peter was bitten by a magical spider, which means that regardless of the radiation, he would've recieved spider powers (and likewise contradicting the entire theme of the spider-totem subplot in that there are certain mysteries that make it appear that science and the spiritual do not always contradict each other--plus bringing up the whole idea again after he had already effectively ended it in the book of Ezekiel) but we got those awful stingers that just screamed "Wolverine rip-off."

I do not "hate" JMS at all; I just feel that, when it comes to Amazing Spider-Man, he has worn out his welcome, especially now since he's pretty much ran the whole new age, mystical spider-totem crap into the ground. In other words, "Strike Three! You're out, JMS!"

 

[Cullen]

It's been said, but I don't mind repeating myself. I don't hate JMS. I hate his work on Amazing from "Sins Past" on. roach might be right, I and others like me might have be more okay with things had the kids been Peter's, but there's a hell of a lot wrong with the story beyond that.

 

[roach]

Strike one--The 9/11 issue. Not because it should'nt have been made but because JMS used Spidey to basically spout the notion that the United States probably deserved what it got on September 11th because of the terrible mistakes committed in the past, implying that the terrorists actions were justifiable. To be fair, it did try to make an attempt at honoring the men and women who acted heroically that day.

I may have to go read this again because I didnt get that from the issue

 

[Rez]

That's because it didn't happen. It was stated in one page from a tv report from some Arab nation and a religious nutjob. Stillanerd... wtf?

 

[Rez]

Here's some dialogue from the issue...

Spiderman: How do you say we didn't know? We couldn't know. We couldn't imagine.

Yeah. That's really him saying, "We should have expected the attacks!"


Here's the "naughty" dialogue:

Spiderman Commentary: Ordinary men. Ordinary women. Refusing to accept the self serving proclamations of holy warriors of every stripe, who announce that somehow we had this coming.

Cue Right Wing Religious Nut on Tv: ...Probably what we deserve... All of them who have tried to secularize America... the Pagans and the abortionists and the feminists and the gays and the lesbians and the ACLU... I point the finger in their face and say, "You helped this happen."

Cue Arab Nation dude on TV: --It is God's will that America should fall through their iniquity and their sin--

Spiderman Commentary: We reject them both in the knowledge that our tragedy is greater than the sum of our transgressions.



Mmmhmm... Sounds like he was really supporting the terrorists.

 

[Citizen_Kaine]

Here's some dialogue from the issue...

Spiderman: How do you say we didn't know? We couldn't know. We couldn't imagine.

Yeah. That's really him saying, "We should have expected the attacks!"


Here's the "naughty" dialogue:

Spiderman Commentary: Ordinary men. Ordinary women. Refusing to accept the self serving proclamations of holy warriors of every stripe, who announce that somehow we had this coming.

Cue Right Wing Religious Nut on Tv: ...Probably what we deserve... All of them who have tried to secularize America... the Pagans and the abortionists and the feminists and the gays and the lesbians and the ACLU... I point the finger in their face and say, "You helped this happen."

Cue Arab Nation dude on TV: --It is God's will that America should fall through their iniquity and their sin--

Spiderman Commentary: We reject them both in the knowledge that our tragedy is greater than the sum of our transgressions.



Mmmhmm... Sounds like he was really supporting the terrorists.

I knew there was a reason for why he was wearing a turban that one issue

 

[AmaznSpider-Fan]

The only thing I didn't like about that issue was the panel with Doctor Doom crying.

I mean give me a break...he could care less that it happened. It would have been a bit easier to stomach if it was Magneto.

 

[stillanerd]

Here's some dialogue from the issue...

Spiderman: How do you say we didn't know? We couldn't know. We couldn't imagine.

Yeah. That's really him saying, "We should have expected the attacks!"


Here's the "naughty" dialogue:

Spiderman Commentary: Ordinary men. Ordinary women. Refusing to accept the self serving proclamations of holy warriors of every stripe, who announce that somehow we had this coming.

Cue Right Wing Religious Nut on Tv: ...Probably what we deserve... All of them who have tried to secularize America... the Pagans and the abortionists and the feminists and the gays and the lesbians and the ACLU... I point the finger in their face and say, "You helped this happen."

Cue Arab Nation dude on TV: --It is God's will that America should fall through their iniquity and their sin--

Spiderman Commentary: We reject them both in the knowledge that our tragedy is greater than the sum of our transgressions.



Mmmhmm... Sounds like he was really supporting the terrorists.

I stand corrected Rez (although JMS is making a moral equivalancy argument between the religious right and fanatical Islam, even though such statements were made). Besides, I wasn't trying to suggest that Spidey was supporting the terrorists at all, but that he--and I admit I was mistaken--implied that it was because of America's transgressions which promted the terrorist attacks, when it could be argued that it was Bin Laden trying to prove--wrongly--that the US was a "paper tiger." So I will say you were right, I was wrong, and perhaps the count is really two strikes and a foul ball.

 

[Kool-Aid]

JRJR colorist on AMS back then was awesome. I loved how he/she made the webs shine.up: They should always do the coloring on Spider-Man books.

 

[Cyclops]

The only thing I didn't like about that issue was the panel with Doctor Doom crying.

I mean give me a break...he could care less that it happened. It would have been a bit easier to stomach if it was Magneto.

The whole issue was metaphorical and out of continuity. If you just look at it like that, you'll see it in an entirely different light.

 

[SouLeSS]

The recent things have just been beating a dead horse, as far as I understand the general readers response. He started going down when he was left alone, then it went to hell with Sins Past.

 

[Elijya]

"left alone"?

 

[Cyclops]

He means when they locked JMS in a dark room with nothing but pens, paper, and a flashlight and told him to script ASM for the next five years.

 

[SouLeSS]

"Heres a pen, and a pad of paper that only has 100 pages in it. You have to write the next 5 years of AMS with just that, and you have to do so in the next week, or we kill you"

When he came out all he had was "retcon everything" and they loved it. Unfortunatly, we didn't.