Some plot devices I'd like to take a break from...

[Chris Wallace]

1. Love interest being kidnapped, threatened, or endangered in any way in order to goad the hero into action. I can't think of one hero who hasn't had it happen at least once, & it's getting redundant. Can't he just go after the villain b/c the villain is bad & needs to be stopped? SUperheroes aren't supposed to be selfish.
2. Hero's identity being revealed to the love interest when they have no history to justify it-i.e., if you've been on ONE DATE or less, you don't unmask in front of her! It's just not smart.
3. Hero's mask being removed or ruined beyond usefulness during the final fight. They do still have to get home afterwards.
4. Incompetent/unreliable/absentee law enforcement.
5. VILLAIN GETTING KILLED!!!! I know it's unlikely that they'll return, but do we have to completely rule out the possibility?

That's all I have for now.

 

[jaymes_e06]

I love yours! To add to them.
6.Love intrest not being able to ever kick any ass other than Catwoman In Batman Returns it just doesn't happen.
7. Rehashing story idea from previous instalments of the franchise.
8. Never giving anyone proper screentime or even trying to flesh out supporting characters.
9. Always having a male lead and the ones with female leads are reduced to campy fluff.
10. Always having the main hero have somehow caused and or made the villian who he/she is.

 

[Hobgoblin]

Totally agreed with all of the above.

11. I want to see someone figure out the heroes identity but be tricked into thinking they're wrong. Or even better, no one finds out the hero's ID.
12. An established character can die once in a while. No miraculous rescue at the last minute.

 

[Chris Wallace]

#12 has led to some dissent-Harry Osborn, Professor X, Cyclops, Jean.

 

[Jennifer Walters]

Harry died in the comics and stayed dead for years. The other three have all died before too. Jean's the queen of comic book death.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

4. Incompetent/unreliable/absentee law enforcement.

I agree with that so much....surely it's better to have an effective police force, and show that even they can't take down the supervillain, which builds up the villain and the hero who takes them down even more.

The all-time classic useless police is in the Burton Bayman movies, it's like they didn't even try. During the opening set-piece of Returns, Gordon just calls for Batman straight away. Batman should be a last resort.

Also in Daredevil, Bullseye kills someone in a pub infront of a pub-full of witnesses, then just walks out...and suffers no consequences.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

11. I want to see someone figure out the heroes identity but be tricked into thinking they're wrong. Or even better, no one finds out the hero's ID.

Raimi missed one of the all-time great Stan Lee ideas in Spider-Man 2.....Doctor Octopus unmasks Spider-Man infront of JJJ, Betty etc - but no-one believes wussy Peter Parker could be Spider-Man. That is genius.

 

[BLACKVULCAN]

#13: the Proverbial "Suit up" scene.
where the camera spends an inordinate amount of time as the hero gets dressed for the 1st time. Thats why i love Superman the movie. We saw Clark as Supes for the 1st time for a brief nano second as he flys away. Only to wet our appetite for the full blown scene of him latter.It was cool in Spiderman cause we got the twist, but It's almost like a lesson on how to get dressed as a superhero.It was cool in Iron Man cause you could understand the preparation to get ready, but Come on! I know how to put my pants on! ... well at least i think i do?!Hehe

 

[DarthDaveBanner]

It was cool in Spiderman cause we got the twist, but It's almost like a lesson on how to get dressed as a superhero.

Spidey never had a proper suit up scene did he?

 

[BLACKVULCAN]

^ yeah man. dont you remember he needed a costume and was drawing it all out with all the dramatic music playing, balling up the designs he disliked,only to emerge with that Super Cheese Corn-ball outfit for the wrestling tournament.Later he just shows in the real one, that was cool cause you expected him to emerge all heroic but it had that twist. !I blame Schumacher for all that long drawn out putting my outfit together/on thing. Just put the outfit on and let the ass kickin begin!Hell all the X-men just showed up in theirs in the 1st one which was cool.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Spidey never had a proper suit up scene did he?

Wisely I think, as the way Tobey wears the suit is clearly not the way it's worn within the context of the film, i.e. the mask clearly does not come off, the gloves do not come off, and so on.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Harry died in the comics and stayed dead for years. The other three have all died before too. Jean's the queen of comic book death.

Didn't Wolverine once say something about Jean turning over in her grave "if she could stay in it for more than 5 minutes"?

 

[Chris Wallace]

Raimi missed one of the all-time great Stan Lee ideas in Spider-Man 2.....Doctor Octopus unmasks Spider-Man infront of JJJ, Betty etc - but no-one believes wussy Peter Parker could be Spider-Man. That is genius.

I thought Harry wasn't going to believe it when he unmasked Peter.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Wisely I think, as the way Tobey wears the suit is clearly not the way it's worn within the context of the film, i.e. the mask clearly does not come off, the gloves do not come off, and so on.

Plus it zips up the side & around the waist. One of the many things I hated about the 70's TV show was whenever he unmasked, he would have to detach the costume at the shoulders & it just ruined the mystique.

 

[Chris Wallace]

I love yours! To add to them.
6.Love interest not being able to ever kick any ass other than Catwoman In Batman Returns it just doesn't happen.
7. Rehashing story idea from previous instalments of the franchise.
8. Never giving anyone proper screentime or even trying to flesh out supporting characters.
9. Always having a male lead and the ones with female leads are reduced to campy fluff.
10. Always having the main hero have somehow caused and or made the villian who he/she is.

#6-Karen Jensen & the otherwise brainless Chase Meridian could actually handle themselves pretty well. Oh-and there's also Nyssa from Blade II and Liz from Hellboy. Catwoman doesn't really count since she was doing double duty as both the love interest and the villain.

 

[Chris Wallace]

14. Villain learning the hero's identity. Unless it happened in the comics, then I'm okay with it.

 

[jmc]

3. Hero's mask being removed or ruined beyond usefulness during the final fight. They do still have to get home afterwards.

This one's is a necessary evil, they learned after that god awful scene in Spider-Man 1 with Goblin and Spider-Man talking to each other that went for like 3 mins where it was like a Power Rangers episode (quite hilarious actually). You really need to see the actors face to stop it from looking silly. Not only that, but if you're gonna pay a guy a few million dollars to star in a film, you really need to see his face in some respect other wise you could just get one of the stunt guys to do all the work.

 

[The Major]

You really need to see the actors face to stop it from looking silly.

Depends on the costume, the characters and the scene.

Some they can get away with showing their face but others they need those masks on. Otherwise they risk looking stupid showing their face to other people. That is a situation most heroes avoid since it puts not only themselves but their friends and allies in danger if they are recognized..

Not only that, but if you're gonna pay a guy a few million dollars to star in a film, you really need to see his face in some respect other wise you could just get one of the stunt guys to do all the work.

V for Vendetta.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Darth Vader wore a rigid mask for the first two Star Wars movies and all but the last two minutes of the third, it didn't stop him from becoming one of the most popular characters in cinema history.

That's not to say I don't think Spidey should keep his mask on all the time, but the way Raimi keeps removing it draws attention to itself (he either pulls it off himself, the bad guys takes it off, or it gets damaged in such a way that shows parts of his face - but never damages the bad guy's costume). By the third film it's almost like, "Sam, if you don't like the hero wearing a mask, why did you agree to make Spider-Man films?"

 

[TruerToTheCore]

Darth Vader wore a rigid mask for the first two Star Wars movies and all but the last two minutes of the third, it didn't stop him from becoming one of the most popular characters in cinema history.

That's not to say I don't think Spidey should keep his mask on all the time, but the way Raimi keeps removing it draws attention to itself. By the third film it's almost like, "Sam, if you don't like the hero wearing a mask, why did you agree to make Spider-Man films?"

Has nothing to do with Raimi's taste. It's just that the actor wants to be seen and the studio wants to see the faces they pay a lot of money for!

 

[The Major]

Has nothing to do with Raimi's taste. It's just that the actor wants to be seen and the studio wants to see the faces they pay a lot of money for!

The studio and actor should have thought of that before signing on to a movie where the hero spends his entire super-hero career in a mask which covers his entire face.

Same goes for Venom.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Tobey's expressive eyes-they can convey entire sentences most of the time-are both an asset & a handicap in a Spider-Man movie. I understand the need to show his eyes, but they took it too far in the third movie. That said, I'd like his mask to remain at least reasonably intact & ON HIS FACE in the next movie. But mind you, he's not the only one who's fallen victim to this. He's not even the most recent.

And let's not forget Batman kicking it all off by needlessly tearing his mask away in Returns. (Couldn't find a pic.)

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Has nothing to do with Raimi's taste. It's just that the actor wants to be seen and the studio wants to see the faces they pay a lot of money for!

No, it is Raimi. Besides, Tobey Maguire was never a big name until he became Spidey. People go to these movies to see Spider-Man, not Tobey Maguire. Raimi has said often that the problem with the masks is that they show no emotion, that's why the Goblin had a transparent mouth and those silly electric window eyes. And afterwards, Raimi declared he wouldn't use another villain with a mask because they just didn't show the emotion he needed.

 

[Chris Wallace]

I remember James Marsden citing similar problems with the visor. But they couldn't just snatch it off willy-nilly in his case.

 

[Savage]

Well with Goblin they could have at least had Osborn mutate when necessary. Green skin, yellow eyes, sharp teeth. I would have totally liked that more than the armor and Dafoe already looks so much like the Goblin anyway.