Spider-Man: Edge of Time

[dtud]

I'll say that the villains in Shattered Dimensions were just thrown in, there were only a few that were never before seen, Vulture was in a previous game, and so was Kraven and Electro. Either way, it wasn't executed that well, each dimension offered a different enemy in the same way Megaman offers a different enemy that corresponds to the level. At least with Arkham Asylum they executed in a more reasonable way, you go down to the lower levels of Arkham leading to the sewers, just the setting alone called for Killer Croc to make his appearance, all the villains that were included fit in well with the game. And to my understand, Zsasz was pretty much a henchman, generic? no, but a henchman none the less. And we're talking about villains in SD, let's not even get into the movie based games where there were multiple villains that had absolutely nothing to do with the film, now I know some people are saying "well they had to in order to make the game more interesting" but, Scorpion's appearance in SM3 contradicts his appearance in SM1 and does an even worse job of modifiying his backstory to fit in with the tone of the game, it was just a mess.....a hot mess

All of the villains in Arkham Asylum had appeared in games previously to, it's a given when you're working with a license. And most of the villains in SD were modified for their respective universe giving us something new. And well, at least we got Juggernaut instead of Rhino.

I'll admit I'm a little biased when it comes to the villains, last Spider-Man game I played before SD was USM so they could've used anyone and it would've been fresh to me. It was the first game I played featuring Kraven to (played PS2 version of the first movie game). Besides, there aren't a lot of villains left that haven't appeared in a game yet. Hydroman and Chameleon are the only noteworthy ones I can think of now that Hobgoblin got his debut.

 

[Michael Frost]

Yea, it's hardly the developer's fault if they have a huge publisher pushing and pressuring for a game that fast.

It even shows in the initial design that they never planned for something big because of the constraints that they're getting.

It's like a movie tie-in game except they at least have the freedom to come up with their own story and creative liberties which takes part of the stress off of their shoulders.

Besides, there aren't a lot of villains left that haven't appeared in a game yet. Hydroman and Chameleon are the only noteworthy ones I can think of now that Hobgoblin got his debut.

Well, only if you're counting 2099 Hobgoblin as an actual appearance by the character. Tho it's hardly Hobgoblin when we're used to a completly different villain under that name. It could had been Vulture and the gameplay wouldn't had changed a bit...

 

[Spidey_62]

Also, Hobgoblin's been in some Spidey games before. He was just ignored for nearly 15 years up to SMSD.

 

[Alchemyst]

Also, Hobgoblin's been in some Spidey games before. He was just ignored for nearly 15 years up to SMSD.

Him being ignored though is not so much a bad thing, it at least builds up demand for that particular character to be in a game. Everybody wanted to see Venom in games, and Activision OD'd on Venom, now they have a hard time trying to keep him or anything symbiote related out of games.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

How the villains are intergrated into the story? I'd agree. But overall? I doubt they just grabbed a bunch of random picks and just tossed them in the game. There obviously were some factors into picking which ones worked for certain universes and which ones didn't, how they can be unique from one another, etc. Arkham was also guilty of cramming some villains in it. What was the point of Poison Ivy beyond telling you where you can the plant? What did Killer Croc had to do with the Joker's plan at all? Why was Zsasz used for a role that any generic henchman could have filled?

You really want to see a poorly made selection of characters? Go look at the cast list for the Spider-Man musical.

All the characters were relevant for what the Joker was trying to do with Batman, or all had some previous connection to Joker. Bane, Scarecrow, Poison Ivy and Croc were all some of Batmans toughest opponents. Opponents who have challenged Batmans mind and strength. Having those enemies test Batman was one of the main reasons why the Joker wanted to lock Batman in Arkham. You dont have that connection at all in Shattered Dimensions, the bosses are just "there". They just happen to stumble across the tablet. Outside of maybe Osborne and Vulture, there was no real connection to the villains. It's scenarios like that, that keep SD from being anything other than mediocre and itll continue that way unless Beenox is able to craft a well thought out story, not just give us a bunch of fan fare. Lots of random villains isnt good enough.

 

[Alchemyst]

All the characters were relevant for what the Joker was trying to do with Batman, or all had some previous connection to Joker. Bane, Scarecrow, Poison Ivy and Croc were all some of Batmans toughest opponents. Opponents who have challenged Batmans mind and strength. Having those enemies test Batman was one of the main reasons why the Joker wanted to lock Batman in Arkham. You dont have that connection at all in Shattered Dimensions, the bosses are just "there". They just happen to stumble across the tablet. Outside of maybe Osborne and Vulture, there was no real connection to the villains. It's scenarios like that, that keep SD from being anything other than mediocre and itll continue that way unless Beenox is able to craft a well thought out story, not just give us a bunch of fan fare. Lots of random villains isnt good enough.

Spider-Man has just as many villains as Batman, if they were to take a little time and effort, we could get Hydro-Man, Chameleon, Silvermane, and some of the other villains in games. Beenox may have done ok with SD, but in all honesty it didn't really bring anything new to the table with Spider-Man, and looking at Activision's track record with Spidey, they may possibly overload is with games similar to SD.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

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[ProjectPat2280]

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[ProjectPat2280]

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[ProjectPat2280]

Spider-Man has just as many villains as Batman, if they were to take a little time and effort, we could get Hydro-Man, Chameleon, Silvermane, and some of the other villains in games. Beenox may have done ok with SD, but in all honesty it didn't really bring anything new to the table with Spider-Man, and looking at Activision's track record with Spidey, they may possibly overload is with games similar to SD.

I dont have a problem with them using the villains we've seen, but give me a good reason as to why im fighting Rhino, or Chameleon, or Shocker etc etc etc. Dont just throw a villain in front of me and say 'hey, beat that guy up'. Thats all SD was. Its why i say the next game needs to be personal to Parker. I think the next game should either deal with Osborn trying to off Parker or maybe have the Sinister Six trying to take him out. We dont need any world ending scenarios.

 

[dtud]

All the characters were relevant for what the Joker was trying to do with Batman, or all had some previous connection to Joker. Bane, Scarecrow, Poison Ivy and Croc were all some of Batmans toughest opponents. Opponents who have challenged Batmans mind and strength. Having those enemies test Batman was one of the main reasons why the Joker wanted to lock Batman in Arkham. You dont have that connection at all in Shattered Dimensions, the bosses are just "there". They just happen to stumble across the tablet. Outside of maybe Osborne and Vulture, there was no real connection to the villains. It's scenarios like that, that keep SD from being anything other than mediocre and itll continue that way unless Beenox is able to craft a well thought out story, not just give us a bunch of fan fare. Lots of random villains isnt good enough.

You can't fault a game for choosing a different approach to matter than another one. The story in SD wasn't a personal as AA's and it didn't have to be. Sure the noir story was personal but the main frame story wasn't. Every encounter in the comics isn't personal so why should it be in a game?

 

[ProjectPat2280]

You can't fault a game for choosing a different approach to matter than another one. The story in SD wasn't a personal as AA's and it didn't have to be. Sure the noir story was personal but the main frame story wasn't. Every encounter in the comics isn't personal so why should it be in a game?

Because they havent done that yet and they have failed every time. Its time they try something different. Batman: Arkham Asylum comes along and the story revolves around a situation personal to Batman and we get arguably the best superhero game to ever hit consoles. Its one of the big reasons Spider-Man games fail to be anything other than mediocre, there is no thought into the story. They just throw bad guys at us and think thats all they need to do. WoS and SD are fantastic examples of that.

 

[Alchemyst]

You can't fault a game for choosing a different approach to matter than another one. The story in SD wasn't a personal as AA's and it didn't have to be. Sure the noir story was personal but the main frame story wasn't. Every encounter in the comics isn't personal so why should it be in a game?

Well, by making the story personal, it gives you a better connection to the character and makes you want to see the story to the end. Spider-Man on the other hand doesn't really execute that well, it's mainly a villain bent on destroying New York and eventually the world, it's never a situation where New York could be safe but Peter Parker's world is in shambles.

Because they havent done that yet and they have failed every time. Batman: Arkham Asylum comes along and the story revolves around a situation personal to Batman and we get arguably the best superhero game to ever hit consoles. Its one of the big reasons Spider-Man games fail to be anything other than mediocre, there is no thought into the story.

Yep, by putting Batman in Arkham Asylum, that is like the ultimate challenge for him, he's confined to an area filled with people he's beaten the crap out of or apprehended. Every enemy in Arkham that you faced had some sort of connection to Batman

 

[dtud]

I agree that we need a game with a story that makes it personal for Peter. I was just saying that SD didn't take that approach and thats okay to. The story in Ultimate Spider-Man was mainly personal dealing with Peter's parents by the way.

 

[Alchemyst]

I agree that we need a game with a story that makes it personal for Peter. I was just saying that SD didn't take that approach and thats okay to. The story in Ultimate Spider-Man was mainly personal dealing with Peter's parents by the way.

That's cool, and I don't want to come across as bashing SD, I mean it did step outside the box (sandbox that is) and went back to a linear approach, which isn't bad. My thing is, switching from linear to freeroam won't save Spidey games come every occasion, and I really don't want to see SM go so low where people lose interest altogether. Activision did all they could possibly do with Spider-Man and I think at this point there just shooting in the dark and hoping something hits. Rocksteady has made a name for itself with AA and it brought life back to Batman as far as games, Spider-Man needs that same breath of fresh air, sadly I don't think Activision can provide it.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

I agree that we need a game with a story that makes it personal for Peter. I was just saying that SD didn't take that approach and thats okay to. The story in Ultimate Spider-Man was mainly personal dealing with Peter's parents by the way.

Yea, i think USM has been my fav Spidey game to date.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Iv never thought the web swinging was right, even in SM2. It was as tho gravity didnt exist while he was swinging.

Isn't gaming about player feeling power? Especially if you talk about playing with a character that defies gravity to some extent by hanging from so many lines continuously and moves upwards?
Gravity had its toll in Spidey 2, in the Mysterio theater level it made me wish that never happened, I had to pick up people, charge my jump to its max extent and do a double jump before I swing to make sure I don't touch the burning ground

I think iv given up on wanting to see a Spidey game that can rival Arkham Asylum.

I think most Spider-Man games before SD have one or two things better, a superhero game should be fun and make good use of the hero abilities
After USM the stories went to a downgrade, but then I discovered the story in these games doesn't really matter anymore, as long as they don't offend the characters

No it doesnt. The villains made NO sense to the overall story. They just showed up and stumbled into the tablet.

And so long as their stories aren't overly rushed with too stupid plots
Really? How the hey did Kraven find about it on ebay so soon after the tablet turned to fragments? And he bought it without giving it a thought?

 

[Spider-Aziz]

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[GamerSlyRatchet]

Outside of maybe Osborne and Vulture, there was no real connection to the villains.

Actually, Amazing and Ultimate had very random villains, but Noir and 2099 had their own small storylines with their villains. Hammerhead and Vulture were working for Osborn and both planned to betray him. Hobgoblin was created by Doc Ock, and Scorpion was manipulated as well.

And though not all villains were all part of a "master plan", they did have specific relationships to each Spidey. As mentioned before, Vulture and Goblin were responsible for Uncle Ben's death, and Spidey shows his disgust. He's less harsh towards Hammerhead, but he's also disgusted towards him for being a dirty coward. Spidey is also in awe when seeing how ax crazy the Hobgoblin is, but also feels sympathy towards Scorpion since he knew him as a kid. He also flirts with Doc Ock, but both characters also serve as foils for each other, as good arch nemesis do. Kraven is obsessed with his honor and Sandman is a schizo thug, but Spidey continues to mock them, yet he is slightly afraid of Juggernaut, a not-so-bright thug who just wants to be left alone. The wittiness with Electro and Deadpool is also played out, yet Spidey is also deeply terrified of Carnage, in both physical and personal reasons.

While the method the characters were brought in was rather random and thrown in, the specific characters all have connections with the heroes. Not all connections have to be rooted in tragedy to work.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

Actually, Amazing and Ultimate had very random villains, but Noir and 2099 had their own small storylines with their villains. Hammerhead and Vulture were working for Osborn and both planned to betray him

Yea, and i thought those were probably the best sections.

Not all connections have to be rooted in tragedy to work.

But its always better if they are. Its why Osborn will always be Parkers greatest enemy. Its why the Joker will always be Batmans greatest foe. Its what those character have done to the protagonist that makes them so fearsome. Osborn murdered Parkers love, the Joker paralyzed Gordons daughter.

There have been plenty of Spidey titles that DIDNT involve a personal twist, its time they give us that. No more dumb tablets, no more plots to take over the world. Have the main villain, whomever it may be, be out to kill Spider-Man. Give us a compelling story and itll go a looong way to making Spider-Man reach Arkham Asylum level quality.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

I think most Spider-Man games before SD have one or two things better, a superhero game should be fun and make good use of the hero abilities

A superhero game needs to make you feel like the title character. Its a big reason why Batman: Arkham Asylum is so revered. I havent felt that since, maybe the first time i played Spider-Man 2.

 

[Michael Frost]

Give us a compelling story and itll go a looong way to making Spider-Man reach Arkham Asylum level quality.

Along with tight gameplay mechanics, a freeroam space and a fine layer of things to do around the city even after you end the game.

*cough*takingpicturesofcertainthingslikeinBeyondGoodAndEvil*cough*

 

[dtud]

Isn't gaming about player feeling power? Especially if you talk about playing with a character that defies gravity to some extent by hanging from so many lines continuously and moves upwards?
Gravity had its toll in Spidey 2, in the Mysterio theater level it made me wish that never happened, I had to pick up people, charge my jump to its max extent and do a double jump before I swing to make sure I don't touch the burning ground

That's because the game had some rough edges, I rather have physics than the floaty vacuum we've been getting. One of my biggest grievances with SD was that jumping didn't feel good at all.

By the way, even though it wasn't touch upon in the game Spider-Man does have a very personal relationship with Kraven. All in all I agree with GamerSlyRatchet about the villains, not everything has to be rooted in tragedy and all of the villains in the game did have connections with Spidey.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

You guys keep missing the point. Of course those villains had connections to Spidey, they're part of his rogues gallery but they made NO sense to the whole of the story. They weren't connected to Mysterio, they weren't part of his overall plan. They just happened to find the tablet. Thats a primary reason why the story failed, and lets not pretend it didn't.

And again, you miss the point, you're right, not every villain needs to come from tragedy, but as iv said prior, it's better if they do. You can toss 50 shockers at the player but nothing would feel as powerful as going up against a very personal villain to the story thats being told.

Its really not hard to see why these games keep falling on their asses. They follow the SAME pattern every damn time. If they want to make a good spidey game, they need to take everything theyve done prior and do the opposite.

 

[Alchemyst]

You guys keep missing the point. Of course those villains had connections to Spidey, they're part of his rogues gallery but they made NO sense to the whole of the story. They weren't connected to Mysterio, they weren't part of his overall plan. They just happened to find the tablet. Thats a primary reason why the story failed, and lets not pretend it didn't.

And again, you miss the point, you're right, not every villain needs to come from tragedy, but as iv said prior, it's better if they do. You can toss 50 shockers at the player but nothing would feel as powerful as going up against a very personal villain to the story thats being told.

Its really not hard to see why these games keep falling on their asses. They follow the SAME pattern every damn time. If they want to make a good spidey game, they need to take everything theyve done prior and do the opposite.

Perfect example is Rhino's appearance in the Spider-Man 3 game, one moment your fighting some thugs, then next moment a cutscene plays and Rhino is running down the street!?!?!?!? wtf, especially if this is at the halfway mark of the game, you literally had not idea he was in the game until that cutscene, they don't even explain his existence in the game.