Homecoming Spider-Man Homecoming (2017) General Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 93

[Iceman]

I hope Spider-Man's villains get MUCH better treatment than some of the past MCU villains.

As well as some of the past Spider-man villains lol.

 

[Spider-man95]

As well as some of the past Spider-man villains lol.

Well I certainly remember Wilem Dafoe's Goblin and Alfred Molina's Doc Ock more than I remember some of the MCU villains but yes let's do better than Spider-Man 3 (granted Sandman had some great moments) TASM 1 (wasted potential with Connors by not showing his family) and TASM 2 please. Regarding my personal opinion on some MCU villains, I thought Ultron was disappointing and had so much more potential to be greater than he was. I haven't seen Thor 2 so I can't judge but I did hear that a lot of people found Malekith pretty forgettable. Guardians of the Galaxy was a good film but Ronin was also a bit lackluster. Don't get me started on the Iron Man 3 villains or should I say villain. To me Zemo, Alexander Pierce, Wilson Fisk and Loki are the best MCU villains and I hope they take that route with Spider-Man's villains.

 

[UltimateMarvel]

His and Flash's :

Exactly.

 

[Mysteryman]

A good trailer will temper down some of this talk of too many villains.

 

[Moridin]

The point is, the cycle KEEPS repeating itself. What you're saying is Exactly what people were saying in defense of TASM2 having multiple villains, and look how that movie turnd out? I can make several parallels between the villains in Homecoming and TASM2, how large/big their roles are-- and from what we know about them isn't all that different from TASM2.

Ideas =/= execution. You're judging the ideas of Homecoming against the execution of TASM2.

People keep bringing up TWS and TDK about the multiple villains angle being done right as if Jon Watts has the same credentials as the Russos or Christopher Nolan when they're NOT comparable. They're all different directors with different style, just because Anthony and Joe can have 4-5 villains in a movie and make it work doesn't mean Watts has the same skill. The only similarity between these people is the fact that they both work for Marvel, that's literally it.

And you keep putting the Russo's in the same category as Nolan as if they have the same credentials.

Nolan pre-Batman: Memento & Insomnia.
Russo Bros pre-MCU: "Welcome to Collinwood" & "You, Me & Dupree".

And as I said last week, Cop Car >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dupree & Colinwood

Watts is in the same catagory as Marc Webb when he direct Amazing Spider-Man 1.

Webb was under Sony/Arad.
Watts is under Marvel/Feige.

I don't consider that to be remotely the same category.

 

[Dark Raven]

Marvel Studios films do come from the same factory. I don't think some of you people realize that, but this is a Marvel Studios film through and through. They are literally using a HELL LOT of the same crew that were in Atlanta for Civil War. Yes, Jon Watts isn't the Russo Brothers, but Cop Car proved to me that he is capable of doing great storytelling with was obviously a very short budget. Also, that film had multiple "villains" with more than enough info about them to make them compelling.

I don't know what is about Harry's wording of things, but he gives me a vibe of these DC guys that like villains that are literally bigger than the protagonist. That's not what I want from the MCU, especially in a Spider-Man film. Spider-Man's villains are maybe the greatest rogue gallery in all comics, but as long as they are brilliant like Helmut Zemo, Donald Pierce, Winter Soldier, Loki and last but not least, Yellow Jacket, I'll be fine. Zemo is easily my favorite MCU villain right now tho.

Also, I might be alone in this, but I really REALLY want Kevin Bacon to become a main villain in the MCU. Who knows, maybe the biggest from Spider-Man's mythology (or 2nd biggest? It's debatable after Dan Slott's Superior Spider-Man tour de force).

Who is Donald Pierce?

 

[Iceman]

Well I certainly remember Wilem Dafoe's Goblin and Alfred Molina's Doc Ock more than I remember some of the MCU villains but yes let's do better than Spider-Man 3 (granted Sandman had some great moments) TASM 1 (wasted potential with Connors by not showing his family) and TASM 2 please. Regarding my personal opinion on some MCU villains, I thought Ultron was disappointing and had so much more potential to be greater than he was. I haven't seen Thor 2 so I can't judge but I did hear that a lot of people found Malekith pretty forgettable. Guardians of the Galaxy was a good film but Ronin was also a bit lackluster. Don't get me started on the Iron Man 3 villains or should I say villain. To me Zemo, Alexander Pierce, Wilson Fisk and Loki are the best MCU villains and I hope they take that route with Spider-Man's villains.

MCU villains have been for the most part average/mediocre and I'm always complaining about that in the MCU threads/forums. Doc Ock was the best Spidey villain and the only one I really liked. The others were ok but TASM2 and SM3 really took the piss! Lol.

 

[Spider-man95]

MCU villains have been for the most part average/mediocre and I'm always complaining about that in the MCU threads/forums. Doc Ock was the best Spidey villain and the only one I really liked. The others were ok but TASM2 and SM3 really took the piss! Lol.

Yeah, Doc Ock is great albeit a bit different to his comic counterpart but damn good for his first movie appearance. I like Dafoe as the Green Goblin/Norman Osborn though, he really had fun with that role and it's hard for me not to have fun watching him.

 

[Iceman]

Yeah, Doc Ock is great albeit a bit different to his comic counterpart but damn good for his first movie appearance. I like Dafoe as the Green Goblin/ Norman Osborn though, he really had fun with that role and it's hard for me not to have fun watching him.

Defoe was fine out of costume but I was a bit less keen on the Goblin suit. But yes I didn't have much against the character and I guess he ranks very highly against most of the other Spidey villains we've seen given that 2 films with 2 villains each can be written off.

 

[Spider-man95]

Defoe was fine out of costume but I was a bit less keen on the Goblin suit. But yes I didn't have much against the character and I guess he ranks very highly against most of the other Spidey villains we've seen given that 2 films with 2 villains each can be written off.

I know people don't like the Goblin suit but....I don't know I'm kinda nostalgic to it. I have a soft spot for it you could say. But I just recently watched Spider-Man 1 and 2 on Blu ray and yeah...the suit does look pretty dated now.

If Dafoe wore this:

Spoiler

https://ryankpeterson.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/green-goblin-test-make-up-2.jpg

[YT]QEZBhL5lpqg[/YT]

Man that would've been hard to top for future Goblin's.

I'm praying Marvel will use this type of mask for their Goblin but after seeing Vulture's costume I'm not so sure they will.

 

[AvegningSpider]

Exactly.

 

[harryoscop]

Ideas =/= execution. You're judging the ideas of Homecoming against the execution of TASM2.

Just like the sceptics before me used SM3 as analogy which was later proven to be correct.

And you keep putting the Russo's in the same category as Nolan as if they have the same credentials.

Nolan pre-Batman: Memento & Insomnia.
Russo Bros pre-MCU: "Welcome to Collinwood" & "You, Me & Dupree".
And as I said last week, Cop Car >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dupree & Colinwood

This is the first i've ever mention Christopher Nolan in the Russos in the same sentence. So I don't know where this "Keep on" is coming from. And how am I putting them in the same category by using both of them as a means of comparison as to directors who can handle multiple villain? I'm not saying the Russos are better or on-par with Nolan so i'm not sure where that's coming from either.

Webb was under Sony/Arad.
Watts is under Marvel/Feige.

I don't consider that to be remotely the same category.

I do, considering that both of their movies pre-Spider-Man concerned children/teenagers, both of them were indie films, both of them were younger guys and both of them dealt/dealing with Peter's HS years. Yeah, the Studios play huge a part as well, but i'm talking about the directors individually themselves.

Watts is essentially following the same mold Webb did, just behind a different Studio.

 

[Spider-man95]

Watts is essentially following the same mold Webb did, just behind a different Studio.

I see what you're saying Harry, but I trust Feige a million times more than Avi Arad as someone working with the director.

 

[The Infernal]

Who is Donald Pierce?

An X-men villain, I think. He probably meant Robert Redford's character Alexander Pierce in Winter Soldier.

 

[Talion]

An X-men villain, I think. He probably meant Robert Redford's character Alexander Pierce in Winter Soldier.

Yes I've mistaken Alexander with Donald. My bad.

 

[Mysteryman]

So you're optimists that prematurely assume everything will turn out great, even though we've been given confirmed reason to assume there's a possibility that it might not?
Maybe I am a pessimist, but all i'm saying is, people were saying the same thing 'bout TASM2 where people said "SM3 didn't fail because it had three villains, it failed because the execution sucked and they weren't balanced well enough, and the stories didn't connect to one another organically." Look how TASM2 turned out. Here we are now with the second reboot and them stuffing 3-4 four villains into the first movie? I swear it seems like time frame for when they try to stuff as much stuff as possible into a Spidey film is getting shorter and shorter. First it was 3 films, then 2 with TASM series and now the first film.


Not even mentioning the villains, with Tony Stark in the movie as well as whatever Zendaya is playing (which Talion keeps implying is a huge character) this movie will be packed and I hope Watts will be able to handle it...

Just curious, what is the confirmed reason to assume that there is a possibility that things might not work out?

 

[NotSoLongAgo]

Just curious, what is the confirmed reason to assume that there is a possibility that things might not work out?

Lmao there isnt one

 

[SuperSpidey17]

Well, there's always a *possibility*... but is that possibility a likelihood? Not necessarily. Be optimistic! Let's not make up our minds about the movie before we've even seen a minute of it

 

[NinjaTurtleFan]

So I'm guessing Jameson is skipped again? Damn, Simmons really did it that good?

If he has zero presence in the MCU or does not play some significant role in the Spider-Man sequels, I am going to be pissed.

I love Simmons' portrayal like the next guy but it's been 2007 since the last time we saw his live-action version. It's time we move on and get a new J.J.J. and there's plenty of good actors out there who could step up to the plate and hit a home run with it as Simmons did for Raimi. Heck, Disney has good relations with Tom Hanks I am surprised he hasn't been considered for Uncle Ben or something in the MCU.

 

[marijuanawatson]

If he has zero presence in the MCU or does not play some significant role in the Spider-Man sequels, I am going to be pissed.

I love Simmons' portrayal like the next guy but it's been 2007 since the last time we saw his live-action version. It's time we move on and get a new J.J.J. and there's plenty of good actors out there who could step up to the plate and hit a home run with it as Simmons did for Raimi. Heck, Disney has good relations with Tom Hanks I am surprised he hasn't been considered for Uncle Ben or something in the MCU.

Haha, just like Mary Jane. Yet apparently she's been over done and should be given a rest. Ha. Cough, cough Talion. Screw that, we've only got ONE basically terrible live action version of MJ, which wasn't true to the character (essentially, IMO, we haven't gotten THEE MJ on screen yet, not the one we deserve). Oh, and it's been almost a decade and besides Aunt May she's like THEE most important female character of the Spider-Man mythos. It's not like she's Peter's wife/true love or consistently in the comics or anything, no biggie. I'll never understand this stance of thinking MJ shouldn't be in this new franchise. If one character/mythos has been beaten into the ground it's Peter Parker himself and the Osborns, not MJ. Even then, I'll still argue that the Osborns need to be in this. People must really hate the character lol, she's always being mistreated. MJ and the Daily Bugle need to be in this franchise. Rant over.

 

[harryoscop]

Haha, just like Mary Jane. Yet apparently she's been over done and should be given a rest. Ha. Cough, cough Talion. Screw that, we've only got ONE basically terrible live action version of MJ, which wasn't true to the character (essentially, IMO, we haven't gotten THEE MJ on screen yet, not the one we deserve). Oh, and it's been almost a decade and besides Aunt May she's like THEE most important female character of the Spider-Man mythos. It's not like she's Peter's wife/true love or consistently in the comics or anything, no biggie. I'll never understand this stance of thinking MJ shouldn't be in this new franchise. If one character/mythos has been beaten into the ground it's Peter Parker himself and the Osborns, not MJ. Even then, I'll still argue that the Osborns need to be in this. People must really hate the character lol, she's always being mistreated. MJ and the Daily Bugle need to be in this franchise. Rant over.

 

[Dark Raven]

If he has zero presence in the MCU or does not play some significant role in the Spider-Man sequels, I am going to be pissed.

I love Simmons' portrayal like the next guy but it's been 2007 since the last time we saw his live-action version. It's time we move on and get a new J.J.J. and there's plenty of good actors out there who could step up to the plate and hit a home run with it as Simmons did for Raimi. Heck, Disney has good relations with Tom Hanks I am surprised he hasn't been considered for Uncle Ben or something in the MCU.

Exactly. Even Bond was replaced after Sean Connery played him, whom you'd think would be irreplaceable.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Who is Donald Pierce?

Donald Pierce is an X-Men villain (the Hellfire Club and the Reavers). My guess is he meant Alexander Pierce.

 

[Spider-Gnome]

Honestly, I don't know what to think about this MJ thing. Ever since Comic Con, I had the feeling Zendaya was MJ. When she was originally cast, and speculation was MJ, I wasn't too happy, preferring an actress that looked more like her comic book counterpart. But since the "scoop," the idea has grown on me (as long as she goes to her red carpet look and has red hair). I still don't know about her acting, but it looks like she can pull off the MJ vibe.

But, maybe Talion is on to something. Maybe Marvel will play up the MJ angle by teasing her appearance. Maybe the joke is we'll pick up clues that Michelle is MJ, only to find out she's not. Maybe the red heads he is rescuing is the same thing.

As much as I want Mary Jane in this franchise (and I mean Mary Jane Watson, not Michelle Johnson but you can call me MJ), I can wait. I want the tease that Aunt May wants Pete to meet Anna Watson's niece with the great personality (shudder), and Pete always ducking it. Also, if we get the "sexpot" "Jackpot" scene, it would be a little less uncomfortable if it was a 19/20 year old in a sequel than a 15/16 year old in Homecoming. Plus it could be a funny running gag in this and future movies. Really build up her first appearance!

I think Talion's idea of the Easter egg in Civil War is a stretch. And his cryptic posts on the big MCU character she is in fact playing, I don't know either. I don't know if Talion is full of crap or not, but I'll give him one thing. He promoted some interesting discussions around here.

 

[Iceman]

Oh I didn't realise she was going to have red hair! Awesome.