The Amazing Spider-Man spider-man's mask during dialogue

[spider-neil]

what should happen, you can't see his eyes, mouth and expressions so how do you get across how he (spidey) is feeling?

 

[spider-neil]

they really need to address this because its a problem

batman - you see his eyes and mouth

superman - has no mask

iron man - you see the interior of the helmet showing tony's face

spidey - you see nothing. you have no idea what he is feeling

 

[Rodrigo90]

Thats a tough one. I really dont know how it would work,but I say make the mask move with Peter's expression. How though? I dont know.

 

[spider-neil]

having the eyes of the mask 'emote' would be plain weird. it works in animated form but in live action it would look daft.

remember that scene with GG and spidey on the roof top in SM1 and goblin slaps spidey on the head (ha ha that was funny ) that whole scene was weird because spidey was behind a mask and goblin was behind a mask (which was solid) so you couldn't see any emotion from either character.

 

[david icke]

Remember remember...V For Vendetta...the main character was behind a mask for the complete duration of the film, and the character came across. The actor just has to be good with the voice and the body language.
Look at the scene in the lift in SM2, MaGuire did a good job of looking uncomfortable and embarrassed, and he sold the humourous awkward line at the end as well.
I want to see more scenes like that, with the mask on, and Spidey interacting with folk.

Also...I don't know if they could get away with it, or pull it off, but...maybe they could do something like they did in the books when something important goes down, when his spidey sense tingles, we get a shot with half his face showing, that would be good.

 

[spider-neil]

maybe they could do something like they did in the books when something important goes down, when his spidey sense tingles, we get a shot with half his face showing, that would be good.

I could definately live with that.

I think they have to do 'something' though. look at the scene where peter stops the train and you see the agony on his face, had his mask been on I think that scene would have less impact.

 

[SpeterMan3]

Remember remember...V For Vendetta...the main character was behind a mask for the complete duration of the film, and the character came across. The actor just has to be good with the voice and the body language.
Look at the scene in the lift in SM2, MaGuire did a good job of looking uncomfortable and embarrassed, and he sold the humourous awkward line at the end as well.
I want to see more scenes like that, with the mask on, and Spidey interacting with folk.

Also...I don't know if they could get away with it, or pull it off, but...maybe they could do something like they did in the books when something important goes down, when his spidey sense tingles, we get a shot with half his face showing, that would be good.

 

[david icke]

yeah, the ss scene with the train is exactly the type of moment they would use that effect.
I think Raimi got it right for the most part, with the face reveals during Spidey action. It's just that we wanted more scenes with Spidey in general I think, and they can only afford so many full on set-pieces, that made it feel like the mask was coming off a lot to some people, esp when it hardly ever does in the books.
But, yeah, they could do a cool, tasteful effect showing us a representation of the split face image I think.

 

[superkong 500]

I could definately live with that.

I think they have to do 'something' though. look at the scene where peter stops the train and you see the agony on his face, had his mask been on I think that scene would have less impact.

Yea you're right. However I don't want this new spiderman to be taking off his mask like raimi's spidey did. so I think it would work if each time there's an important emotional scene or spidey is struggling with pain we should see flash cuts of half his face like in the comics but done with flash cuts.

you know for ex: we see the green goblin or whichever villain strangling spidey or punching him in the stomach, then we would see spidey'sbody language reaction with the mask on, but suddenly we would see several flashes of half his face inside the mask while he's being hurt by the bad guy.

Imagine you have x-ray vision and you can see peter behind the mask and you'll get the gist of what Iam saying.

When he feels somethings(spidey sense tingling) wrong we would see his expression beneath the mask the same way.

 

[david icke]

Yea you're right. However I don't want this new spiderman to be taking off his mask like raimi's spidey did. so I think it would work if each time there's an important emotional scene or spidey is struggling with pain we should see flash cuts of half his face like in the comics but done with flash cuts.

you know for ex: we see the green goblin or whichever villain strangling spidey or punching him in the stomach, then we would see spidey'sbody language reaction with the mask on, but suddenly we would see several flashes of half his face inside the mask while he's being hurt by the bad guy.

Iamgine you have x-ray vision and you can see peter behind the mask and you'll get the gist of what Iam saying.

When he feels somethings(spidey sense tingling) wrong we would see his expression beneath the mask the same way.

Yeah, that is what I was saying about the spider-sense moments.
I hesitated to say they should use an 'x-ray vision' shot(as u put it) during regular moments when he is in action, because, I don't know, it could look a bit off.
edit: Like, when the Spider sense kicks in there will at least be an effect of sound used, so using a visual effect on his face would integrate with that moment.
Whereas if you just used an effect that swiped away half his face during a fight, it could look a bit funny just popping up during an intense scene. It's not like Iron-Man, where we are being treated to a real interior shot essentially, it would be an unreal sfx in Spidey's case, so you would risk making a dramatic moment look a bit goofy with sfx popping up. I don't know, it's risky.
I still think the ripped mask can be used in certain scenes, it looks great at the end of SM1 especially.

 

[SpeterMan3]

I'm thinking flashing through between the mask and his face at a pretty rapid speed, so we see his expressions, but in a sort of "flipbook" type way, if you know what I mean.

 

[david icke]

To be honest...thinking about it, if I was the director, I would only use the sfx of seeing through his mask at the spider-sense bits.
I would just keep the mask on, and rely on the audience imagining what his expression is like(which is what we normally and naturally do i think), rather than using a sfx to show his face at certain moments. and when it came to climactic battles, I would give it a rip to show expression a bit, because if the fighting is so intense that you want to show his face with a sfx, the fighting would be so intense that his mask probably would take a rip or two.
I can imagine seeing that 'x-ray' effect, and then when it went away thinking, 'damn, I wish they would have just put a bit of a rip in there, because that moment looked great.'
I mean, I agree with what Raimi did at the end of SM1 and 3, we got the full mask at the beginning, and then as the fight took it's toll, it ripped up.

edit: Speterman, I am not sure how to visualise your bookflip idea, but again, personally I would not go for an 'x-ray' sfx during regular moments.

 

[SpeterMan3]

Basically, visualize seeing the mask and then his face repeatedly fora few seconds, with the sort of timing (I guess) of a flipbook.



*I meant to add the sfx with the spider sense too.

 

[©KAW]

Keep his mask on no matter what. If a director can't pull off Spider-Man on screen while he's wearing a mask, he shouldn't be directing the damn film, period. The man wears a f'ing mask for a reason.

 

[spider-neil]

the could have two versions of the mask, one with opaque white eyes and another with transparent eyes. you cut to the transperant eyes during dialoque or an intense close up.

remember the scene in SM1 where the bomb bounces up and explodes in peter's face, you see peter's surprised expression through the mask before the bomb goes off and it looked completely natural.

 

[spider-neil]

having spidey talk though a mask during long conversations is stupid, it just doesn't work as you don't get any of the nuances of the eyes and mouth. why do you think iron created that interior head shot for iron man?

 

[david icke]

the could have two versions of the mask, one with opaque white eyes and another with transparent eyes. you cut to the transperant eyes during dialoque or an intense close up.

remember the scene in SM1 where the bomb bounces up and explodes in peter's face, you see peter's surprised expression through the mask before the bomb goes off and it looked completely natural.

I did forget about that bit, but, see, that is different to using a sfx wipe to 'x-ray' through his mask, that shot was like the Iron-Man type, an zoom up through a solid object to show the interior of his mask.

I wouldn't want a sfx wipe 'x-raying' through his mask to take me out of the reality of an intense scene, because I like to get lost in the movie, and don't want reminding that it's fake. Other sfx are meant to be real, actually happening, that one is not.
I would be ok with it happening in conjucntion with a spider-sense moment because you are getting unreal sfx anyway from the sound fx, so an added visual effect could fit. No one else hears the ss going off, so it fits with that conceit.
Also, I just don't think an 'x-ray' effect popping up would look good.
But, if it fit the moment, like that bomb scene you mentioned, I would be all for the odd 'zoom-in' shot , to show the interior of the mask, that's still real, within the reality of the movie, it's just the camera going in at a closer angle, behind the mask.

having spidey talk though a mask during long conversations is stupid, it just doesn't work as you don't get any of the nuances of the eyes and mouth. why do you think iron created that interior head shot for iron man?

But, it worked for V for Vendetta. i am with Kaw on this one(for once!) , they should be able to make it work with voice and body language for conversations.
I mean, think about Batman talking to Gordon outside his house in Batman Begins, we don't really need to see his mouth vaguely opening(and most of the convo is at a distance so we don't really see it), we don't really see his eyes, the whole character is conveyed through his vocals.

 

[spidermanJLA!~]

the could have two versions of the mask, one with opaque white eyes and another with transparent eyes. you cut to the transperant eyes during dialoque or an intense close up.

remember the scene in SM1 where the bomb bounces up and explodes in peter's face, you see peter's surprised expression through the mask before the bomb goes off and it looked completely natural.

I saw that on Youtube after I read this. You could see the bomb in his eyes and it looked fine, so I agree. But it would nice if you could see his eyes through the lenses.

 

[SpeterMan3]

Can someone post a link? I don't remember it totally.

 

[spidermanJLA!~]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOrnEFPxhUY

Go to 3:50

 

[Spider-Fan83]

I saw that on Youtube after I read this. You could see the bomb in his eyes and it looked fine, so I agree. But it would be nice if you could see his eyes through the lenses.

doesn't seeing his eyes defeat the point of having the lenses...?

 

[SpeterMan3]

Thanks.
BUt just saying, the part of the mask over that eye was already ripped...

And I just noticed that you can see individual pieces of the mask fly off.

 

[spidermanJLA!~]

I guess.... @spider-fan

 

[SpeterMan3]

You know, I would love for whoever is actually in the suit to at least be able to move their mouth when Spider-Man's talking. Hearing an excited voice from a calm head took me out of it a little.

 

[weezerspider]

Get a good actor. I felt Roarchach's lust for justice very much throughout Watchmen and his mask covered everything.