The Amazing Spider-Man spider-man's mask during dialogue

[Ajendo]

Remember remember...V For Vendetta...the main character was behind a mask for the complete duration of the film, and the character came across. The actor just has to be good with the voice and the body language.
Look at the scene in the lift in SM2, MaGuire did a good job of looking uncomfortable and embarrassed, and he sold the humourous awkward line at the end as well.
I want to see more scenes like that, with the mask on, and Spidey interacting with folk.

Also...I don't know if they could get away with it, or pull it off, but...maybe they could do something like they did in the books when something important goes down, when his spidey sense tingles, we get a shot with half his face showing, that would be good.

I agree with what you said, although I think the last part with the half mask is a bit flim flammish for a movie. As you said, V did it and lets not forget Darth Vader. This is a situation where Sony need to hire an actor who can act and project.

 

[Oscorp]

Giving Dafoe a non-moveable mask was such a foolish decision. And the funny thing is, despite Raimi's hate of masks in regards to Spidey, he gave Dafoe a non-moveable mask when it was a character that didn't call for it!

But I don't mind Spidey's mask in tatters in the Goblin fight. That was a situation where it was only the two of them, they both already knew who the other was, and it was a very dramatic scene. In that instance, I didn't mind it at all. And it really gave it a nice gritty feel seeing Pete's face through the torn mask.

Taking the mask off on the train....not so much.

And again, as others have said. A good actor can get a lot across with his voice and body movements. They'll just have to work at it, but it can be done. And in the right situations, have the torn mask/no mask, but keep it limited.

It's one problem I have with USM and the Raimi films both. KEEP THE DAMN MASK ON!!

Couldn't have said it much better myself! Good points!

 

[spider-neil]

I may be delving into Nolan style,but wouldn't it look more realistic and expressive if he had a mask like this?

Where you can faintly see his eyes?

that's what I'm talking about but with plastic rather than cotton. use a material that when the camera is close you can see the eyes underneath but when the camera moves further away it becomes an opaque white.

 

[spider-neil]

Dude, I thought you were kidding around with that microphone bit, and actually thought you were being very witty, but c'mon, lol, why don't *you* find us a quote where the director said that?
It may not have had as much of a budget as most sh tentpoles, but it was an expensive movie.
not filmed with a video camera round someone's house.
and as a matter of fact, I have read an interview with the makers saying they wanted to see more expression from the actor, so cut a mouth hole.
I can't recall where, but if I happen to come across one, I'll post it up, even though I shouldn't really have to, it's kind of like posting a link to prove what toilet-paper is for.

I thought he was kidding too. in a lot of movies (make that most) the dialogue is redubbed over the original dialogue which is removed to get rid of unwanted background noice. you guys release that foley (background noice, footsteps, door closing etc) is also put in later, right? bad mics on set are irrelavent.

 

[Rodrigo90]

that's what I'm talking about but with plastic rather than cotton. use a material that when the camera is close you can see the eyes underneath but when the camera moves further away it becomes an opaque white.

Definitely,a material that is see-through, just barely however. But when the camera focuses on Spider-Man's face,we see his eyes more clearly.

 

[spider-neil]

Definitely,a material that is see-through, just barely however. But when the camera focuses on Spider-Man's face,we see his eyes more clearly.

the eyes would be enough to sell the emotion. especially anger, surprise, terror.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Hmm, I really like that idea. Never thought of that before. But regarding his jaw and its movement, it shouldn't be too expressive. A constantly moving jaw is kind of distracting and silly behind a mask like that in live action.

 

[Ultra-Spidey]

I may be delving into Nolan style,but wouldn't it look more realistic and expressive if he had a mask like this?

Where you can faintly see his eyes?

I like how that middle web line on the mask was added . Subtle but nice addition.

But getting back to the topic, another thing was that Raimi also experimented with the faintly/visible eyes thing. For those of you that didn't see it or don't remember, Raimi said that the more they tinkered and experimented with the costume, he felt the further away he thought that they were getting away from the character so he decided to just take it back to basics and jus stick with the classic/iconic look. If anything, i would tinker with the shape, size, and color shade of the lenses. But jus lil bit, as its pretty good as it is. First i would make the lenses jus a tad larger. I'm a fan of the huge McFarlane eyes but do realize that making them that big just doesn't look too good in real world. Then I would play around with the shape of the lenses jus a bit, again jus real subtle touches as I already like the look of them. And lastly, I would color them WHITE. That always struck me as kinda odd, how they painted them an off white, shade of grey. Was that decision made because of an lighting/shooting/filming issue? Which is also another reason why changes to ANY costume are considered when making that jump to the big screen.

For those kiddies out there, anyone that knows anything about photography and cinematography knows lighting plays a key part in how sumthin looks on screen and in photos, and what exactly that is being "shot" can present a difficult very "shoot".

 

[©KAW]

Raimi doesn't seem to be a fan of masks in general. Harry's Goblin only wore that ridiculous paint baller's mask for the first 30 seconds of the first fight with Peter. Venom was consistently peeling back the symbiote to have Topher's face pop out to deliver all the dialogue.

That's because he doesn't understand the characters, never have, never will.

Green Goblin's best scenes were the Norman ones, IMO. That plastic mask just didn't convey any kind of emotion. Dafoe has such an expressive face, too. I think he was the bitter lesson that put Raimi off using masks, except only when necessary.

Even in the final battle between Spidey and Goblin, half of the Spidey mask is gone, and we can see most of Peter's face.

Dafoe should have had makeup, that combined a hood connected to his mask, and he removes it a la the masks in Tom Cruises' Mission Impossible films. This way we get full on Willem Dafoe facial expressions. When it comes to Spider-Man, there is none, he wears a mask that hide his expressions, that's his character, that's SPIDER-MAN.

You don't take on the film if you can't comprehend this. You don't try to figure out another way to show emotion, just because you want the audience to see his damn face. I cringed everytime I see Spider-Man without his mask, wearing his suit, in public using his powers. I say, what the hell is the point of wearing his mask at all (this isn't Fantastic Four, X-Men or Punisher). Besides, it's a mystique that I've always loved about Spidey, you know he's feeling pain (you can sometimes hear it or see it bodily), but you just can't see it on his face.

The final battle scene was okay because it was only Green Goblin/Spidey, so the ripped mask didn't matter, and it looked cool.

 

[Infinity9999x]

When it comes to Spider-Man, there is none, he wears a mask that hide his expressions, that's his character, that's SPIDER-MAN.

Not quite true. The comics utilize the eyes on the mask to show expressions all the time. The eyes will widen and narrow in accordance with his emotion at the time. However, that's something that can only really be done in cartoons and comics.

Still, the point is, in other mediums, we still do get forms of expressions from him.

However, I think with a talented actor, the mask will be fine. And in situations like the Green Goblin one, it's all right to have the tattered mask situation.

 

[david icke]

That's because he doesn't understand the characters, never have, never will.

Or maybe it's because he understands film, and what works best onscreen to convey certain moments.

You don't take on the film if you can't comprehend this. You don't try to figure out another way to show emotion, just because you want the audience to see his damn face. I cringed everytime I see Spider-Man without his mask, wearing his suit, in public using his powers. I say, what the hell is the point of wearing his mask at all (this isn't Fantastic Four, X-Men or Punisher). Besides, it's a mystique that I've always loved about Spidey, you know he's feeling pain (you can sometimes hear it or see it bodily), but you just can't see it on his face.

The final battle scene was okay because it was only Green Goblin/Spidey, so the ripped mask didn't matter, and it looked cool.

I don't see what's wrong with the civvies scene fighting Harry in 3. Many times when he has been caught unaware in the books, Pete has used his full blown spider-powers to defend himself or others, while in civilian clothes.
When GG1 follows him after discovering his secret ID, and they fight outside May's house; in 'Spider-man No More.' when he has given up so has no costume on, but intervenes in a robbery and takes out a couple of gangsters.

The end scene of SM3 was not so bad, he still had most of the mask on, and the crowds and cameras were at a distance.

The scene with the train was done to get the full effect, and would not have been as effective dramatically without the face being exposed. It was played into the drama effectively as an 'unmasking' scene.

About the only time i had a problem with it was when he had his mask off standing above the Spider-man day parade, that was dumb.

 

[Infinity9999x]

The scene with the train was done to get the full effect, and would not have been as effective dramatically without the face being exposed. It was played into the drama effectively as an 'unmasking' scene.

About the only time i had a problem with it was when he had his mask off standing above the Spider-man day parade, that was dumb.

I didn't mind Spidey fighting in his normal clothes either. I mean, one time he was ambushed by Harry, so he didn't exactly have time to change.

However, I just really think the train sequence was dumb. I'm sorry, yeah it was a dramatic moment and everything, but taking your mask off in front of fifty strangers was a really, really, REALLY stupid thing to do. And I did not buy the "we won't tell anyone" thing. Some ******* would have definitely snapped a quick pic on his cell phone when Spidey was standing in front of all of them.

 

[david icke]

I didn't mind Spidey fighting in his normal clothes either. I mean, one time he was ambushed by Harry, so he didn't exactly have time to change.

Yea, it would have broken up the sense of the constant chase if he had ducked out for a moment and then came back on the scene with his costume on, you had to feel he was only one step ahead of Harry constantly for that sequence to be effective.

However, I just really think the train sequence was dumb. I'm sorry, yeah it was a dramatic moment and everything, but taking your mask off in front of fifty strangers was a really, really, REALLY stupid thing to do. And I did not buy the "we won't tell anyone" thing. Some ******* would have definitely snapped a quick pic on his cell phone when Spidey was standing in front of all of them.

No, lol, I know, a few people feel that way. If you want to look at it as a realistic scene, yes, a camera phone could have been produced, but then someone else may have grabbed it off the person as they were grateful. But, with the scene Raimi was going for, that would have broken up the vibe as well, it was meant to be played as an almost religious scene, where all normal rules and foibles are put aside temporarily, I thought it worked in that sense.

ie if anything is going to make people forget drop all normal , selfish, weak moments for a minute or two, it's going to be something like that happening in front of their eyes.
We don't have real superheroes in our world, so who knows if a scene like that would have a religious impact on a group of people, that would cause all normal expectations of people's foiables to go out the window.

 

[©KAW]

Or maybe it's because he understands film, and what works best onscreen to convey certain moments.

It's never the best way to have your masked hero parading around without his mask in public. What's the purpose of wearing the mask, if the director can't wait to take it off in every other scene?

I don't see what's wrong with the civvies scene fighting Harry in 3. Many times when he has been caught unaware in the books, Pete has used his full blown spider-powers to defend himself or others, while in civilian clothes.
When GG1 follows him after discovering his secret ID, and they fight outside May's house; in 'Spider-man No More.' when he has given up so has no costume on, but intervenes in a robbery and takes out a couple of gangsters.

Caught by surprise, yeah, that I understand. But in the movies they're deliberately removing his mask, just for the sole purpose of showing his face. If Peter had no other choice than I can see him using his powers in his civves, this fool is doing it with his entire suit on. In front of Doc Ock, in front of the wrestling promoter, had time to undress to reveal his Spidey suit in the alley defending MJ, but didn't have enough time (and with Spidey's speed) could have put his mask on in a fraction of a second.

The end scene of SM3 was not so bad, he still had most of the mask on, and the crowds and cameras were at a distance.

The scene with the train was done to get the full effect, and would not have been as effective dramatically without the face being exposed. It was played into the drama effectively as an 'unmasking' scene.

About the only time i had a problem with it was when he had his mask off standing above the Spider-man day parade, that was dumb.

Are you really defending the unmasking in these films? I know why they unmasked him, I'm saying that it defeats the purpose of him wearing a mask period. Coming up with idiotic ways for Peter to lose his mask, and sometimes he just takes his mask off willingly in front of villains (Doc Ock/Sandman) it makes no sense--to keep using the unmasking as some dramatic or sometimes asinine reasoning. Can there be no dramatic scenes without an unmasking, serious now? And we have New Yorkers promising him that they won't tell, because we all know that New Yorkers don't LIE.

Why not just keep the mask off permanently, and Peter walks around like the FF or Punisher?

 

[The Joker]

I didn't mind Spidey fighting in his normal clothes either. I mean, one time he was ambushed by Harry, so he didn't exactly have time to change.

However, I just really think the train sequence was dumb. I'm sorry, yeah it was a dramatic moment and everything, but taking your mask off in front of fifty strangers was a really, really, REALLY stupid thing to do. And I did not buy the "we won't tell anyone" thing. Some ******* would have definitely snapped a quick pic on his cell phone when Spidey was standing in front of all of them.

After having a terrifying near death situation like that, you don't know what you'd be thinking. Snapping Spidey's pic might be the furthest thing from your mind.

 

[©KAW]

I don't know, the woman who had a car tossed at her manage to smile and say..."Go Spidey Go!"...after her near death experience.

 

[The Joker]

In don't know, the woman who had a car tossed at her manage to smile and say..."Go Spidey Go!"...after her near death experience.

Was not nearly as prolonged and dramatic as the out of control speeding train.

 

[weezerspider]

Dude, I thought you were kidding around with that microphone bit, and actually thought you were being very witty, but c'mon, lol, why don't *you* find us a quote where the director said that?
It may not have had as much of a budget as most sh tentpoles, but it was an expensive movie.
not filmed with a video camera round someone's house.
and as a matter of fact, I have read an interview with the makers saying they wanted to see more expression from the actor, so cut a mouth hole.
I can't recall where, but if I happen to come across one, I'll post it up, even though I shouldn't really have to, it's kind of like posting a link to prove what toilet-paper is for.

I was kidding with the Microphone bit... that said, that still doesn't make it right just because Kick-Ass did it. Its not right for Spiderman. Peter should wear his mask.

 

[©KAW]

Was not nearly as prolonged and dramatic as the out of control speeding train.

Death is death...doesn't matter who or what administers it.

 

[Mace Dolex]

The thing with the Tobey Maguire mask is that he wore some sort of chin brace thingy to wrap the mask over which explains why his mouth never seemed to move while he was talking, I think one of the Making Of... books showed a drawing of it.

The chin brace thingy was used probably so as not to make the Spider-Man mask too much like a Halloween mask.

Now it would look cool if Spider-Man would talk with his mask half way up but in the long run that won't work all the time. Now remember the part in Batman Returns when Batman does his big reveal in front of Catwoman, Keaton doesn't wear the black eye makeup when he takes the mask off.

I think for Spider-Man for those really long dialogue scenes he shouldn't wear the chin brace.

 

[spider-neil]

can't talk for anyone else but if there were a spider-man and he had just saved my life on a train almost killing himself in the process I personally wouldn't try to profit on that by selling pictures of him but that's just me.

 

[david icke]

can't talk for anyone else but if there were a spider-man and he had just saved my life on a train almost killing himself in the process I personally wouldn't try to profit on that by selling pictures of him but that's just me.

Yeah, that and teh fact that I think we can almost take for granted the 'super' aspect of the hero, because we read aabout them so much. If we were to witness such a prolonged rescue, where our lives looked like they would be definitely taken, we would be awestruck with an almost religious fevour at the superhero. So awestruck we would forget not only that we even had a phone in our pockets, but at the notion of selfish profit, we would be touched by a nobler spirit than that by proxy.
This is what Rami was trying to convey in the scene, and he nailed it, I don't recall of such an effective scene in this manner in any other superhero movie, apart from maybe Lois Lane's reaction to her 1st rescue by Superman, and even then that was cushioned by the ending for laughs with the faint, it wasn't played as ultra serious as this one was.

 

[spider-neil]

Yeah, that and teh fact that I think we can almost take for granted the 'super' aspect of the hero, because we read aabout them so much. If we were to witness such a prolonged rescue, where our lives looked like they would be definitely taken, we would be awestruck with an almost religious fevour at the superhero. So awestruck we would forget not only that we even had a phone in our pockets, but at the notion of selfish profit, we would be touched by a nobler spirit than that by proxy.
This is what Rami was trying to convey in the scene, and he nailed it, I don't recall of such an effective scene in this manner in any other superhero movie, apart from maybe Lois Lane's reaction to her 1st rescue by Superman, and even then that was cushioned by the ending for laughs with the faint, it wasn't played as ultra serious as this one was.

the whole sequence is incredible, you have a hero who at any time can just swing away and let the train pluge to its death but he stays to stop the train, almost kills himself in the process and the people of new apprechaited that self scarifice, I loved that they bore spidey on their shoulders and then stood between him and ock when it was obvious to all of them that ock could kill them all with ease. that sequence (the clock tower to ock knocking spidey out) is possibly my favorite sequence in a superhero bar none, although as a WHOLE a thought the TDK was a better movie.

if anyone took a picture of spidey and tried to sell it they should take a long hard look at themselves in the mirror to see the difference between selflessness and selfishness.

 

[The Joker]

Death is death...doesn't matter who or what administers it.

Oh baloney. Some near death experiences are waaaaaaay more traumatic than others. Especially when they're prolonged. Don't even compare a 2 second near death experience where you barely have time to register what just happened, to the terror of spending several minutes on an out of control speeding train.

 

[LegendaryCaleb]

darth vader sis a bad example.

...your joker interrogation scene example was pretty bad too...i dont remember peter being evil and a laughing terrorist...we will never have a moment in sm where peter is trying to piss off a hero because he has his woman hostage tied to explosives...
rorschach was the best example...he maintained his heroesque by KEEPING HIS DAMN MASK ON the whole time he was a hero...and delivered his lines with the intensity needed to be effective for people watching the movie to feel his pain or understand what hes tryin to say...there was more emotion to his character than anyone in that movie and he wore a mask...spidey needs his identity...he wears a mask...maybe netting eyes arent the worst idea...but i would rather have lenses...if they get the right kid he can pull it off...