Comics Spidey, Sigs, and You

[SpideyInATree]

Mr. Kettle, there's a Mr. Pot for you on line 2....

Honestly, I think everyone should give BND a shot. I did. I read the first few issues in the store, and found it all to be a big rehash. Others don't. Still, the first issue had Peter's wallet getting stolen, and it appeared someone would discover his secret identity! Oh NO!! We have NEVER seen that happen!! Oh...wait a minute....he was outted to the whole world a little over a year ago.

Hey, Peter's dating again! Maybe he will get married and....oh...nevermind, that all happened, and it was washed away by a deal with the devil...so Peter will never be married again.

Honestly, if you want to read BND, then by all means, read it and enjoy it. Me, I would much rather see some character PROgression, as opposed to character REgression, which is all I've seen seen since Peter became devil-powered.

Yeah, those things that happen to him are kind of a rehash. It's taking the character back to what made him so appealing in the first place. Did they need to end the marriage? No, not really. Could a writer out there have worked around the marriage and given new ideas? Yes. But that isn't what happened. What got what we got. And like farmernudie said in another thread here it seems to be either you love it or you hate it.

I'm getting great quality Spider-Man stories from top quality creative teams. I'm happy and it's all that I've asked for. As I told Alexia earlier in the thread things will only change if the books start to really decline in sales. That is really the only way to get them. But letting them know you are displeased and upset over it, nothing wrong with that but it seems that won't change Marvel's mind at this time.

 

[shinlyle]

Yeah, those things that happen to him are kind of a rehash. It's taking the character back to what made him so appealing in the first place. Did they need to end the marriage? No, not really. Could a writer out there have worked around the marriage and given new ideas? Yes. But that isn't what happened. What got what we got. And like farmernudie said in another thread here it seems to be either you love it or you hate it.

I'm getting great quality Spider-Man stories from top quality creative teams. I'm happy and it's all that I've asked for. As I told Alexia earlier in the thread things will only change if the books start to really decline in sales. That is really the only way to get them. But letting them know you are displeased and upset over it, nothing wrong with that but it seems that won't change Marvel's mind at this time.

Yup. Honestly, alot of people are still buying this, so Marvel will continue to roll with it. I don't expect a change anytime soon. Honestly, if that many people are enjoying the book, more power to them. Personally, I've got about 200 back issues to track down,a dn I'm enjoying that quest alot more than the current storyline, so I'll stick with that.

Like I said, no ill will towards anyone who reads it. You like it or you don't.

 

[Styleshift]

Yup. Honestly, alot of people are still buying this, so Marvel will continue to roll with it. I don't expect a change anytime soon. Honestly, if that many people are enjoying the book, more power to them. Personally, I've got about 200 back issues to track down,a dn I'm enjoying that quest alot more than the current storyline, so I'll stick with that.

Like I said, no ill will towards anyone who reads it. You like it or you don't.

Same here Shinlyle...
I've had more fun tracking down and reading back issues than BND.
Now that I think about it...
I wish they would bring back Spider-man 2099...

 

[shinlyle]

Same here Shinlyle...
I've had more fun tracking down and reading back issues than BND.
Now that I think about it...
I wish they would bring back Spider-man 2099...

WORD!! Spidey 2099 rules. I know he's in Exiles...but I want him back in his own book. Talk about entertaining! What a great book. Too bad the 2099 universe was overexposed and then ignored, leaving it to die on the vine.

 

[SpideyInATree]

Spider-Man 2099 was an awesome series. You just reminded me that I need another 10 issues of it to complete the entire collection

 

[shinlyle]

Nice! I've got the first 24-30 issues or so. I need to go back and get the rest.

 

[farmernudie]

Yeh, I was a fan of Spidey 2099 too...and the costume!

I've got a few gaps in my collection of that also.

It was funny back then I remember...at first I didn't think i liked it too much, but i kept collecting it and really ended up liking that series quite a bit!

 

[Styleshift]

I'm at least glad he got some what of an ending and is still used in the exiles....
shows marvel does listen to fans somewhat...but than again...they know that if your a big fan of spidey 2099...than you'll buy the book...

jeez why is it that everything with these guys is about money this and money that...its the same problem that t.v. is having now...
its why we have all these corney reality shows instead of nicely written shows with actors and an actual plot....lol.

 

[Blader5489]

Did they officially say that never happened? I mean it wouldn't have been a streach for Harry to go the way of dad and die, only to come back.....

I don't know what the official line is on harry, I know he's been in rehab but how much of what happened before that I thought was still in question.

Wacker said a future story would deal with what happened "that night" (re: Spectacular #200). So it was always my belief that instead of dying that night, Harry slipped into a coma (or whatever) and when he woke up, he once again lost his memory of being the goblin and his near-death experience was attributed to a drug relapse. So Harry gets sent to a rehab clinic in Europe and isn't heard from since until the ending of OMD.

That's just my theory, based on what has been said and shown, but I think it fits nicely.

 

[Blader5489]

jeez why is it that everything with these guys is about money this and money that...its the same problem that t.v. is having now...
its why we have all these corney reality shows instead of nicely written shows with actors and an actual plot....lol.

To address your points:

1) Marvel is a company. Their top priority has to be making money.
2) Capitalism.
3) There are plenty of damn good scripted TV shows out there. Lost and 30 Rock, a couple of my favorites, being just two examples.

 

[Dangerous]

Spidey 2099 Omnibus gimme gimme!

 

[Styleshift]

To address your points:

1) Marvel is a company. Their top priority has to be making money.
2) Capitalism.
3) There are plenty of damn good scripted TV shows out there. Lost and 30 Rock, a couple of my favorites, being just two examples.

To address your points...
1) duh, i'm not stupid... but that priority is SO much more obvious these days....look at the quality of story telling and how they promote crappy stories these days. The other got plenty of buzz. and in my opinion it was worse than the clone saga.
2) Good point.
3) I can probably think of more reality shows off the top of my head than you can think of quality scripted t.v shows.
beauty and the geek, america's top model, american idol, the flavor of love. just to name a few.

In short....everything is soooo much more about money than it was in the 90's. you really can't sense the passion in these guys work anymore.

When Quesada bringing out the graphic novels. that was commendable, that decision put the fans first.
because,
in the end that cost them because most people would skip an arc and wait for the tpb to come out....that was costing marvel big time but he never stopped.

 

[imdaly]

In short....everything is soooo much more about money than it was in the 90's.

I have to stroooongly disagree with this.

Every other issue in the 90's seemed like it was a New #1, complete with 12 different versions with 12 different covers, half having a holograph on them, half having a cell to a cartoon bundled in them. Clone sagas were dragged out from a handful of issues to 2 years worth of stories JUST because it sold well, Superman was killed, Batman's back was broken, Spider-Man had abou 10 ongoing series, etc etc.

There was a boom in comics in the 90s, and Marvel and DC took extreme advantage of that in milking us all for as much money as they could.

Yes you have your gimmicks in comics still, but I'd argue that it's nowhere NEAR as horrible and gimmicky as the 90s.

IMO, that is.

 

[Styleshift]

I have to stroooongly disagree with this.

Every other issue in the 90's seemed like it was a New #1, complete with 12 different versions with 12 different covers, half having a holograph on them, half having a cell to a cartoon bundled in them. Clone sagas were dragged out from a handful of issues to 2 years worth of stories JUST because it sold well, Superman was killed, Batman's back was broken, Spider-Man had abou 10 ongoing series, etc etc.

There was a boom in comics in the 90s, and Marvel and DC took extreme advantage of that in milking us all for as much money as they could.

Yes you have your gimmicks in comics still, but I'd argue that it's nowhere NEAR as horrible and gimmicky as the 90s.

IMO, that is.

LOL.
Ok....I know that Spider-man (movie) came out in 2002.
but how many times has Marvel lied about things since the 90's?

have you seen how they are trying to promote BND? "the enthusiatic responses"
"the heartwarming event" sure they've done it before...but they haven't blatantly lied about an arc like that before.

Quesada admitted the other was crap but he said OMD is one of his fav. stories....
he is SO much better than that....

For me, it's alot harder to pick up a comic than it was in the 90's.
and story arc after story arc takes alot away from the story for me because i expect it. it was alot more exciting picking up a book and not knowing if it'd be followed by a "to be continued".

as for these days Spidey is with sony, DD is with Fox. they cannot appear in the same movie together. that even affects Spidey's new cartoon as he is the only superhero in that show.
Marvel even tried riding the success of the movie.

we had a near pointless arc in back in black.
JMS even stated that he wasn't prepared to write it since OMD was supposed to take place after aunt may got shot.

It's understandable that Marvel is doing this as they went into bankruptcy.
but i really can't sense the passion in the stories like i could in the 90s...

same goes with t.v.
doesn't matter if something goes bad...at least they tried...

 

[imdaly]

For me, it's alot harder to pick up a comic than it was in the 90's.
and story arc after story arc takes alot away from the story for me because i expect it. it was alot more exciting picking up a book and not knowing if it'd be followed by a "to be continued".

That's because back then the most advanced notice we had for upcoming issues was the "Next Issue:" box at the end of the current issue. These days we have the internet which shows us the covers and solits for upcoming issues 3 or 4 months before they come out!

And don't think that the 90's didn't have "to be continued" at the end of many issues either. For Spider-Man alone, we had the 14-part "Maximum Carnage", 2 years worth of Spider-Man comics which had month-after-month multi-part storylines that not only went for 4 or more parts, but actually continually crossed over from one title to another. Part 1 in "Amazing...", Part 2 in "Web of...", Part 3 in "Spider-Man", Part 4 in "Spectacular"...etc etc etc. It was ridiculous.

we had a near pointless arc in back in black.
JMS even stated that he wasn't prepared to write it since OMD was supposed to take place after aunt may got shot.

That arc is no more "pointless" than many of the stories we had in the 90s. I guess I'm just not completely sure what qualifies as a "pointless" storyarc?

 

[Styleshift]

That's because back then the most advanced notice we had for upcoming issues was the "Next Issue:" box at the end of the current issue. These days we have the internet which shows us the covers and solits for upcoming issues 3 or 4 months before they come out!

And don't think that the 90's didn't have "to be continued" at the end of many issues either. For Spider-Man alone, we had the 14-part "Maximum Carnage", 2 years worth of Spider-Man comics which had month-after-month multi-part storylines that not only went for 4 or more parts, but actually continually crossed over from one title to another. Part 1 in "Amazing...", Part 2 in "Web of...", Part 3 in "Spider-Man", Part 4 in "Spectacular"...etc etc etc. It was ridiculous.

True, but I haven't had a computer until 06, and I haven't used the computer to know whats going on about Spidey until 07.
but I still knew what the next arc was going to be about and how long it was going to last...

Let's face it. Marvel can't keep its mouth shut. lol.
and yes I DO remember the stories that switched between books. i'm glad they stopped that.

I hope you realize I'm not saying the 90's was the best and it should have stayed that way forever....im not afraid of change.
I'm saying Marvel seemed to have more passion and integrity in those days.
Stan Lee era will always be the best. no matter how hard anyone tries. =]

The funny thing is that ALL of his concepts have been wiped out and retconned back later.
The webshooters, the original powers, the origin, AND the marriage situation.
(yes it was stans idea.)

That arc is no more "pointless" than many of the stories we had in the 90s. I guess I'm just not completely sure what qualifies as a "pointless" storyarc?

Well it's definitely not a story you can't point at.

Black in Black is pointless why?
well besides all of the continuity problems with the story...what did it really have to do with anything besides running into a reason for pete to dawn his black suit in time for the new movie?
OMD was scheduled to happen right after May was shot. JMS himself has stated that.


Black in black was just another way for Marvel to put money first instead of quality.
The big pain in the butt for writers is that Marvel says go one way because they want to milk the money out of crap and creat shock events. and writers just have to deal. there not left to be creative anymore...

now...if you need me to further clarify.
is BIB a story arc that you necessarily need to read to get OMD?
nope. you wouldn't miss it. Why? because OMD was written exactly the same as the first half of OMD because thats what was supposed to take place. there were some good stories. and we got some what of an end to the other. but the amazing bib arc is what im poking at.

 

[Blader5489]

To address your points...
1) duh, i'm not stupid... but that priority is SO much more obvious these days....look at the quality of story telling and how they promote crappy stories these days. The other got plenty of buzz. and in my opinion it was worse than the clone saga.
2) Good point.
3) I can probably think of more reality shows off the top of my head than you can think of quality scripted t.v shows.
beauty and the geek, america's top model, american idol, the flavor of love. just to name a few.

In short....everything is soooo much more about money than it was in the 90's. you really can't sense the passion in these guys work anymore.

Are you crazy? The quality of Marvel stories is at a new peak, and by and large totally destroys the work of the 90s in terms of quality.

Everything in the 90s was so market-driven and gimmicky, on both Marvel and DC's end. While there may be similar ideologies in writing comics in the 21st century, the actual quality of those stories has become infinitely better than what it was 10-15 years ago.

 

[Styleshift]

Are you crazy? The quality of Marvel stories is at a new peak, and by and large totally destroys the work of the 90s in terms of quality.

Everything in the 90s was so market-driven and gimmicky, on both Marvel and DC's end. While there may be similar ideologies in writing comics in the 21st century, the actual quality of those stories has become infinitely better than what it was 10-15 years ago.

Nope I'm not crazy...just unclear...
I'm referring to the early 90's.
you assume i'm talking about ALL of it.

from about mid 90's to 2000 thats when everything start being gimmicky.
so once again im NOT referring to ALL of the 90's.

we had alot of great creative booms. like Todd mcfarlane's run on Spider-man. (which i've read was the characters peak even by todays standards.)The X-men have probably never been more popular than in the 90's best selling comic during the jim lee/chris claremont run (which is the x-men's most famous incarnation to date.). and Peter David gave the hulk an AMAZING come back during that time period....

so nope. when i refer to the 90s. i look at those runs among others and say wow. i dont look at all the trading cards and ads and special addition books.i look at the amazing quality that those books had.
now we have 2 of the 3 characters that cant be brought back to life come back.
peter parker has been horribly written so he could be completely rebooted.
much of continuity in stories is ignored.
superboy punches time so that continuity can be played with. (DC but stupid enough to be in this post. lol) everyones a skrull.

thats why im not too impressed with the quality of stories these days compared to the early 90''s....
sure i like the more dramatic adult theme in the comics. the standards of how it must be drawn...but the stories haven't had a serious stamp yet.