State Your Opinion on a Character

[Anubis]

Eh.

 

[greenrage36]

He's legendary and all that, but I never really thought he was anything all that cool. It certainly didn't help any that my dad liked him when he was a kid, so of course anything pops liked was a no-no for sure..at least in my younger years, lol!

 

[Holmberg]

I loved Zorro as a kid, and another reason why I like him today is that he inspired so many of the comic book characters I grew up with, most notably Batman and The Phantom.

It is no secret that Finger and Kane based their original Batman concept on Zorro, and other heroes such as Dick Tracy, The Phantom, Sherlock Holmes, and The Shadow as well, but Zorro, in Douglas Fairbanks version, was the primary one. They have stated that several times.

If you look at it, it all fits: Both pretend to be indolent playboys by day, but change into dark avengers in black capes by night. Both have a butler as closest confidant and assistant. Both have a secret cave under their mansions (and here The Phantom's Skull Cave fits in as well). Zorro enters his cave via an entrance behind an old fireplace, Batman through an entrance behind an old grandfather clock. Zorro has a big black horse in his cave (the Phantom has a white one in his), and Batman has a big black car. More useful in a modern day big city. It all fits.

Johnston McCulley, Zorro's creator, noticed these similarities, and contemplated a lawsuit. But the world the world is big enough for both of them.

In a book I got on Indiana Jones, George Lucas states that he also looked at Zorro for inspiration when creating his adventurous archaeologist. So that's a nice little treat too. Especially the scene in Raiders of the Lost Ark where Indy rides a horse, and jumps from that onto a moving truck is inspired by Fairbank's acrobatic exploits.

As for the character it self, my introduction to the character (Zorro) was a comic book adaptation of the Disney Studio's tv-series from 1959. That was, and still is Zorro to me. When I got to watch the 1940 classic with Tyrone Power, I was dissapointed because it was so different. Now I know that this was 19 years before the tv show, but from a 9 year old's perspective it just didn't seem right. I still haven't seen the Fairbanks classics, but I find it fascinating that it was Fairbanks who introduced the black costume. McCulley intended it to be more "Mexican", with Zorro wearing a sombreo, in his first story "The Curse of Capistrano", but after seeing Fairbank's take on his creation he continued with the black costume. So the written stories and the filmed ones influenced each other.
A few years ago, I finally found the entire 1959 tv-series on dvd. Now I can see that it is a bit cheap, and lacks in dynamics, but it IS still the one that is Zorro to me.

When they did the Antonio Banderas features, I think they made one little mistake. The casting of Banderas is perfect. A Spaniard in Los Angeles playing a Spaniard in Los Angeles makes perfect sense. The rest of the casting is fine too. My only complaint is that they made an unnecessary change in the story, with Anthony Hopkins being the real Zorro, Don Diego de la Vega, and Banderas being his heir Alejandro, which is curiously also the name of Diego's father. I don't think it needed that twist. It would have made more sense to me to let Banderas play Diego de la Vega, and Hopkins play his father Alejandro, and just play it straight. The twist does very little for the story, except adding the element of the stolen daughter. This of course gives Diego an element of sadness, and maybe more depth to the love story, but I think there might have been a better way to add those elements.

 

[Wesley Dodds]

The Morning Glories

 

[Anubis]

Never heard of em.

 

[Wesley Dodds]

That sort of talk really worries me. This book is easily one of the best around these days. An absolute gem and a classic in the making.
It's pretty much the last book on the shelves I want to see cancelled.

 

[SuperFerret]

Doing some quick research, it sounds like the type of **** that I tire of in pop culture. It's amazing how being out of high school for a while makes you see how utterly ridiculous the idea of an important teenager really is.

 

[Anubis]

Honestly, I haven't really been into comics in the last 3 years due to not having a job and s**t. There's a lot I've missed. This would be one of them.

 

[Wesley Dodds]

Doing some quick research, it sounds like the type of **** that I tire of in pop culture. It's amazing how being out of high school for a while makes you see how utterly ridiculous the idea of an important teenager really is.

Mmmm... wihout spoiling anything I really cant say much but there's so much more going on in this book than what you seem to perceive as maudlin teen melodrama (which I also dislike)

And these particular teens ARE important. Morning Glories is a school for super-freaky genius children.

And, Anubis: I really dont like to recommend things (Cos' I'm just a disembodied voice on the internet and why would anyone listen?)
but you should most definitely look into this one.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Zorro is magnificent, but his last movie (though not Diego) is pretty boring

Anyway! Not a lot of interest in poor old Modesty. Let's try...

Concrete

​

 

[greenrage36]

Never heard of em.

same here for me...for pretty much the exact same reasons as Anubis too..come to think of it...

 

[Max J Power]

Morning Glories is great so far (I've read up through both trades). My impressions of each one of the six main characters are:

-Casey: Has a lot of typical traits of a comic team leader without seeming generic. Good character.
-Zoe: Good foil for Casey, but hasn't done much else yet.
-Hunter: Eh. Seems like he's mostly there to be the "normal guy" of the bunch.
-Jun: Has the most interesting background of the six, and he's pretty badass for a kid.
-Ike: I'm really interested to see if Ike turns out to side with the villains or if he'll be the resident jerk among the good guys.
-Jade: At first, I thought Jade was going to be the one everyone else always has to save, but after the second trade, I don't think that'll be the case.

 

[Wesley Dodds]

The Shadow

 

[Breogan]

Both have a secret cave under their mansions (and here The Phantom's Skull Cave fits in as well). Zorro enters his cave via an entrance behind an old fireplace, Batman through an entrance behind an old grandfather clock.

Actually even more telling Zorro's secret entrance in the original 1922 Fairbanks' version was in fact behind a clock.

Johnston McCulley, Zorro's creator, noticed these similarities, and contemplated a lawsuit. But the world the world is big enough for both of them.

Never heard that one, where did you hear or read this?

In a book I got on Indiana Jones, George Lucas states that he also looked at Zorro for inspiration when creating his adventurous archaeologist. So that's a nice little treat too. Especially the scene in Raiders of the Lost Ark where Indy rides a horse, and jumps from that onto a moving truck is inspired by Fairbank's acrobatic exploits.

It goes further, the whole trick where he maneuvers under the moving truck to the back snags his whip and then climbs up and back up front to knock out the driver is a recreation of a Zorro stagecoach stunt from Zorro's Fighting Legion. Instead of a truck Zorro maneuvers between the horses drags underneath to the back of the stage coach, then secretly climbs his way up front and knocks out the driver. - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az5WRBCva2c&feature=player_detailpage#t=139s

The stunt was than recreated in Zorro rides again, taking place in then contemporary times where the stage coach is replaced with a truck, this was shot for shot used for Indiana Jones.

In fact all the whip work (making the whip his primary weapon), the cliff hangers were inspired by among others these Zorro serials and stunts, both Lucas and Spielberg were huge fans. The collapsing draw bridge stunt was inspired from Zorro, the mine car chase, the whole Temple of Doom is a reworking of Don Del Oro, Zorro even got into Star Wars, the trash compactor scene is inspired by a similar scene from the Zorro serials. - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCgKJdnq3nE&feature=player_detailpage#t=916s

 

[Holmberg]

Actually even more telling Zorro's secret entrance in the original 1922 Fairbanks' version was in fact behind a clock..

Even better. Just proves the point.

Never heard that one, where did you hear or read this?.

I apologize. I got stuff mixed up. I'm sitting here with Batman the complete history by Les Daniels, and there is something (on p.28) about a weird mix up here about a character named The Bat, presumably written by McCulley, and two other characters both named The Black Bat, and one of these was the cause for a mutual contemplation of a lawsuit, which was dropped, and it's all a bit murky. It wasn't McCulley though. My bad. I got 'em confused.

It goes further, the whole trick where he maneuvers under the moving truck to the back snags his whip and then climbs up and back up front to knock out the driver is a recreation of a Zorro stagecoach stunt from Zorro's Fighting Legion. Instead of a truck Zorro maneuvers between the horses drags underneath to the back of the stage coach, then secretly climbs his way up front and knocks out the driver.

The stunt was than recreated in Zorro rides again, taking place in then contemporary times where the stage coach is replaced with a truck, this was shot for shot used for Indiana Jones.

In fact all the whip work (making the whip his primary weapon), the cliff hangers were inspired by among others these Zorro serials and stunts, both Lucas and Spielberg were huge fans. The collapsing draw bridge stunt was inspired from Zorro, the mine car chase, the whole Temple of Doom is a reworking of Don Del Oro, Zorro even got into Star Wars, the trash compactor scene is inspired by a similar scene from the Zorro serials.

This is excactly the kind of stories I like. The nostalgic tone of SW and IJ have always been key elements to their appeal. They capture the sense being 8-9 years old again.

All adventure stories draw inspiration from earlier stories, and that makes it more interesting to see how they mix these ingredients to come up with a new dish. to find out about artists' influences is a bit of a hobby for me, in music, cinema, comics, and genre literature.

 

[Anubis]

The Shadow

Awesome.

 

[Wesley Dodds]

Oh, yes.

Can't wait to check out the new series.

 

[Breogan]

No doubt, I was just trying to emphasize the great points you made, not trying to be Mr.correcty correcterson.

Even better. Just proves the point.

I'm sitting here with Batman the complete history by Les Daniels.

Never had a chance to read it all, is there any specific quotes where he sites Zorro's/Fairbanks' influence?

Okay, so The Pro might have been a little obscure... time to go A-list again:

Zorro

Francavilla's take on Zorro was outstanding.

 

[KingMob]

The Shadow is awesome.

The movie was just all kinds of awful though.

 

[Wesley Dodds]

I actually ADORE the first scene The Shadow has in that movie. But yeah, after that it's all downhill.

The score's not bad, though.

 

[Breogan]

The Shadow is awesome.

Another huge influence on Batman, pretty much Zorro dropped into the time and urban setting of a Shadow Story.
Kane and Finger took freely from the best.
Also really looking forward to Dynamite's new take on the character

Not sure if any Co. is developing a new movie?
They should be!
The fedora, the red scarf and the twin handguns, visually ...striking!

 

[Holmberg]

No doubt, I was just trying to emphasize the great points you made, not trying to be Mr.correcty correcterson.


Never had a chance to read it all, is there any specific quotes where he sites Zorro's/Fairbanks' influence?

The quote would be boring by itself, but it's on p. 21. Daniel's book. In Bob Kane's autobiography Batman and Me (as I remember, from 1989) he goes into great lenghts about his influences. This part is actually quite interesting. Unfortunately, Kane is also a bit selective with the truth about other things, such as Finger's and Robinson's contribution's. Which is a shame, but not a rarity in the comic book world. However, he does contradict himself on Finger's part in Batman's creation.

Frank Miller makes a reference to Zorro in The Dark Knight Returns, and I assume that most people associated with the character know about the connection. Other influences are Dick Tracy, The Phantom, The Shadow, Doc Savage, and Sherlock Holmes.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

The Shadow is awesome

 

[Wesley Dodds]

There was talk a while ago of Sam Raimi trying to get a new Shadow movie off the ground, wasn't there?
You throw either Adrian Brody or Fassbender in there as the main man and i think you'd have something almost supernaturally awesome...

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Never heard of it