State Your Opinion on A Character

[TenFold]

I've started this type of thread on the Marvel side a few days ago. Now I'll start a DC one as well. I'll start with

 

[SuperFerret]

I guess this is a case of be careful what you wish for. On the surface, I'm neutral to Hawkman. When considering his history, I really don't like him.

 

[Anubis]

I like Hawkman.

But like many characters, not a lot of people can write him well.

 

[E-Man]

I like him when I'm reading J.S.A. My problem is that I really haven't seen them get into his character much. From what I've read he seems like a hard ass, but not in that traditional sense where he's just there to argue with people. Beyond that I haven't gotten into his history much, and when I ask people about where to start it's a little confusing with how his continuity is structured. Those covers from the relaunch look awesome though, and that certainly got my curiosity.

 

[Cain]

Beast Boy

should die.

 

[WompuM]

Her's the thing about Hawkman. In theory, he's a cool character, but the proof is in the pudding, as they say, and that's where Hawkman falters. Let's take a look at Hawkman, shall we? He's a guy with wings and a helmet, and a pretty cool mace. Visually, he's a pretty cool looking character, even if it makes no sense that his helmet has wings, and to be honest, I prefer the Smallville version of his chest piece instead of his bondage looking bare-chested straps look. Then, the wings. The wings are great. The harness works (despite its bondage look) and it gives the reader memories of the story of Icarus. But Hawkman has nothing to do with Icarus. He has to do with Thanagar or Egypt, or some ****. Who knows. Now, with the wings, Hawkman can fly. But how? Does he float? Does he have to flap? Can he hover? Are there big gusts of wind? I've been reading comics for years and I don't know the basics of how Hawkman flies. Furthermore, what about his bones? Are those hollow? Probably not because it doesn't match his tough-guy mantra, does it? Then we get to the mace, which honestly, is pretty badass. But a big quality of the mace is that it has rounded edges and is non-lethal. That works in a DCU sort of way, but now he's the Savage Hawkman now. So does he kill people? Have lethal weapons? And speaking of weapons, whatever happened to that fist of Isis gizmo he used in Superman/Batman Public Enemies? That was cool. Where's that at?
Now his origins. Honestly, they need to get rid of the reincarnation junk asap. It didn't work in The Mummy Returns and it doesn't work here. Have him be a cool archeologists who finds out that the Egyptians were influenced by an ancient race of aliens call Thanagarians and that both Thanagar and the species was wiped out. Carter Hall (and Hawkgirl I guess) are the only two who have access to the Nth-Tech and that's what makes their characters unique and interesting.
As for the museum in St. Roch, I wouldn't mind him working there (a la Indiana Jones' university) but having him own a museum is lame. You just don't see a museum owner being an adventurous archeologist / savage super hero.
As for his ties to the JLA/JSA, I don't see how this would work, especially with his ties to Louisiana and being off on digs. Plus, how does he even know these other heroes? He doesn't live in the same city as any of them. How would they meet/operate?
As for his political feud with Green Arrow, I think that works. Though I would never attach such a conservative attitude to a character for fear that they turn out like Ultimate Captain America.

But hey, what the **** do I know?

 

[Anubis]

Her's the thing about Hawkman. In theory, he's a cool character, but the proof is in the pudding, as they say, and that's where Hawkman falters. Let's take a look at Hawkman, shall we? He's a guy with wings and a helmet, and a pretty cool mace. Visually, he's a pretty cool looking character, even if it makes no sense that his helmet has wings, and to be honest, I prefer the Smallville version of his chest piece instead of his bondage looking bare-chested straps look. Then, the wings. The wings are great. The harness works (despite its bondage look) and it gives the reader memories of the story of Icarus. But Hawkman has nothing to do with Icarus. He has to do with Thanagar or Egypt, or some ****. Who knows. Now, with the wings, Hawkman can fly. But how? Does he float? Does he have to flap? Can he hover? Are there big gusts of wind? I've been reading comics for years and I don't know the basics of how Hawkman flies. Furthermore, what about his bones? Are those hollow? Probably not because it doesn't match his tough-guy mantra, does it?

The little medallion in the middle of the harness is made of Nth metal. One of the properties of the Nth Metal is that it enables the person holding it to fly. Physics or the mechanics of flight doesn't matter in this instance. Technically, he doesn't need the wings but, you know, they look cool.
Then we get to the mace, which honestly, is pretty badass. But a big quality of the mace is that it has rounded edges and is non-lethal. That works in a DCU sort of way, but now he's the Savage Hawkman now. So does he kill people? Have lethal weapons? And speaking of weapons, whatever happened to that fist of Isis gizmo he used in Superman/Batman Public Enemies? That was cool. Where's that at?

He has and does kill people. He's got lots of weapons. That fist thing was just one of them. No need to break it out when taking down muggers though.

Now his origins. Honestly, they need to get rid of the reincarnation junk asap. It didn't work in The Mummy Returns and it doesn't work here. Have him be a cool archeologists who finds out that the Egyptians were influenced by an ancient race of aliens call Thanagarians and that both Thanagar and the species was wiped out. Carter Hall (and Hawkgirl I guess) are the only two who have access to the Nth-Tech and that's what makes their characters unique and interesting.
As for the museum in St. Roch, I wouldn't mind him working there (a la Indiana Jones' university) but having him own a museum is lame. You just don't see a museum owner being an adventurous archeologist / savage super hero.

I'll agree with you on that. Maybe they should do away with the reincarnation angle. I liked it, but it only confuses things. Seeing as the JSA don't exist on this Earth anymore, all the cool things that went with it like him hanging out with Teth Adam and Nabu no longer have any meaning. But Keep the Thanagarians. They make for good enemies.

As for his ties to the JLA/JSA, I don't see how this would work, especially with his ties to Louisiana and being off on digs. Plus, how does he even know these other heroes? He doesn't live in the same city as any of them. How would they meet/operate?

.........You do know how that pretty much everybody from the JLA/JSA don't live in the same city and commute from as far away as Atlantis and the Moon right? Quite frankly, Louisiana is a hell of an easier commute than effin' Atlantis.

As for his political feud with Green Arrow, I think that works. Though I would never attach such a conservative attitude to a character for fear that they turn out like Ultimate Captain America.

But hey, what the **** do I know?

Well, gotta represent everybody. Can't just have a super army of Liberal, hippie, commie pinkos running around. I think F**kin' Barry Allen is a conservative too. Probably the Atom as well.

 

[TenFold]

Do yo guys think Hawkman could carry his own film?

 

[WompuM]

No way. His main power is flying. Everybody flies. The only reason he worked on Smallville was because Superman couldn't fly.

 

[TenFold]

but his mythology could come off nice on the big screen i would think

 

[Anubis]

Sure he could hold a film.

Plus he's got super strength and a healing factor. Nothing more awesome than seeing a guy with wings swoop down and carry off a van of armed thugs who just robbed a bank.

 

[WompuM]

Yeah, but what do you put in the trailer? Trailer has to have that moment, e.g. Iron Man breaking the sound barrier, GL firing a Gatling gun, Batman riding the batpod or jumping onto the white van. Hawkman, visually, is very tame, and those large visual moments are what put people into theaters. Plus, any visual with Hawkman is nothing theater goers haven't already seen with Angel in X3, or the angels from that stupid movie last year.

Would he work in a JSA movie? Sure. But there you could have audiences also seeing interesting visuals from Alan Scott, or Wesley Dodds, or Doctor Midnite, etc. Alone, Hawkman is insufficient to carry a successful film.

 

[WompuM]

Sure he could hold a film.

Plus he's got super strength and a healing factor. Nothing more awesome than seeing a guy with wings swoop down and carry off a van of armed thugs who just robbed a bank.

Does he have super strength? I didn't even know that? The Nth metal does that as well? And are the wings Nth metal too or just his harness buckle?

 

[Anubis]

Yeah, but what do you put in the trailer? Trailer has to have that moment, e.g. Iron Man breaking the sound barrier, GL firing a Gatling gun, Batman riding the batpod or jumping onto the white van. Hawkman, visually, is very tame, and those large visual moments are what put people into theaters. Plus, any visual with Hawkman is nothing theater goers haven't already seen with Angel in X3, or the angels from that stupid movie last year.

Would he work in a JSA movie? Sure. But there you could have audiences also seeing interesting visuals from Alan Scott, or Wesley Dodds, or Doctor Midnite, etc. Alone, Hawkman is insufficient to carry a successful film.

What the hell are you talkin' about?

GL was all visuals, and it bombed. Hell, First Class had Magneto pulling an effin' Submarine out of the ocean and that movie didn't bring in much either. There's plenty that can be done with a dude with wings and a big ass mace visually. But it's not about all that, it's about the story. And Hawkman's story could definitely carry a film.

 

[Anubis]

Does he have super strength? I didn't even know that? The Nth metal does that as well? And are the wings Nth metal too or just his harness buckle?

Just the little medallion. The wings are just there really. Wait, I believe he uses them to steer so, he's got some control over them.

But for the most part, everything comes from the Nth Metal.

Seen him damn near get his head cut off and it grew back.

 

[WompuM]

Yeah, I suppose you're right. Though I could also argue that much like GL or X:Men 1st Class, that Hawkman wouldn't have a strong enough villain lead to interest people. Half the reason people went to TDK was for the Joker. Same with Venom and Doc Ock in Spider-Man 3 and 2, respectively. I don't think I could name Hawkman's arch-nemesis.

 

[Anubis]

Well, it was Hath Set. Which ties in with the reincarnation angle.

The big sell I think might be the love story, which works best with the reincarnation.

Of course you could always just use the Thannagarians as the bad guys. Or Tie Hath Set in with the Thannagarians. Lots of ways to take it.

Personally, I'd keep it all. It's not as complicated as people make it out to be. Now Donna Troy! That b***h be complicated.

 

[WompuM]

Yes. Yes she is.

 

[kytrigger]

Well, it was Hath Set. Which ties in with the reincarnation angle.

The big sell I think might be the love story, which works best with the reincarnation.

Of course you could always just use the Thannagarians as the bad guys. Or Tie Hath Set in with the Thannagarians. Lots of ways to take it.

Personally, I'd keep it all. It's not as complicated as people make it out to be. Now Donna Troy! That b***h be complicated.

I agree. I actually think Hawkman and Hawkgirl's reincarnation and whole love angle could work really well as a movie. Get enough actions for guys and love story crap for women.

I don't read much Hawkman so his reincarnation history is a little confusing to me, but I'm sure it could be streamlined for a movie. Plus, Hawkman isn't a big enough name to really piss off a lot fanboys if they made minor changes to his history to suit a movie.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Hawkman is made of suck, as far as I'm concerned. There are good ideas in there, but he's portrayed as a mindless brute too often for me to have any interest in him. It never strikes me as badass or cool when heroes are brutal or occasionally kill people. It makes me think they're s***ty heroes who don't really understand the meaning of the word.

 

[Anubis]

I agree. I actually think Hawkman and Hawkgirl's reincarnation and whole love angle could work really well as a movie. Get enough actions for guys and love story crap for women.

I don't read much Hawkman so his reincarnation history is a little confusing to me, but I'm sure it could be streamlined for a movie. Plus, Hawkman isn't a big enough name to really piss off a lot fanboys if they made minor changes to his history to suit a movie.

Heh, you'd be surprised.

There's actually people that are pissed they gave Blade Powers. Shocking I know.

The only thing that's confusing about Hawkman came about as a result of COIE.

They came in and revamped the character with Hawkworld. Now, granted, Hawkworld was an awesome story, but what it should have been was an elseworlds and left it at that. They brought Katar Hol and his Hawkwoman in, and they were kinda popular for awhile, but then, as is often the case, they wanted to bring the original back. This is where it all falls apart. They killed Katar off, then combined his soul with Carter Hall and a whole lot of other stupid, confusing mumbo jumbo, and now you got the mess that is Hawkman.

It's simple really. Lose Hawkworld and just stick with Carter Hall. That's all that was ever needed.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Blade sold out to the movie hype, son! They need to get him back in that green jacket and goggles, old school style!

 

[Anubis]

His only power is that he can't get bitten by Vampires.

I mean, wtf were they thinking? You'd think him being a Vampire who can walk around in the sun would have been the FIRST thing they came up with when creating him. It's not even like it was that innovative of an idea.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Worked well enough for like 30 years. I mean, if you call Blade's pre-movie popularity "working."

 

[Anubis]