Stephen King's Epic "The Dark Tower" - Part 2

Frankly, I don't understand why they didn't start small and just adapted the Gunslinger novel as the first film.Its a self contained , smaller story which introduces the mythology and opens the door to sequels.

You can't try to shoehorn in several decades of myths and several books into one film ,which is based on a title with very little GA recognition.
 
Frankly, I don't understand why they didn't start small and just adapted the Gunslinger novel as the first film.Its a self contained , smaller story which introduces the mythology and opens the door to sequels.

You can't try to shoehorn in several decades of myths and several books into one film ,which is based on a title with very little GA recognition.

Realistically, it should never have been a movie. A series on HBO, Netflix or Amazon would have been a far better route.
 
This is what happens when you try to cram eight books worth of lore into one movie.

They really should have made The Gunslinger.

We don't need to see Algul Siento, The Dixie Pig or bloody Pimli Prentiss for a looooong ****ing time. This movie should have been a simple but effective introduction into The Dark Tower, not a bloody greatest hits.



Tom Rothman is basically movie cancer, so your description of him as a dark blotch is very accurate.

Agree with all of this. Start with The Gunslinger, keep it low budget and introduce the world, and then go from there.

It's so simple only Sony/Rothman could have messed it up.
 
They could have even introduced some more elements from the fall of Gilead if they were so worried about back story, all while still being fairly faithful to the first book.
 
As someone whose never read the books I've liked what I've seen so far.

For someone whose a fan of the books can you explain what looks so bad and what's off about it? I'm interested to hear that perspective.

Also is it right that the film is a sequel to the books and that the series will continue the story after the film?
 
They could have even introduced some more elements from the fall of Gilead if they were so worried about back story, all while still being fairly faithful to the first book.

It appears they did.

Frankly, I don't understand why they didn't start small and just adapted the Gunslinger novel as the first film.Its a self contained , smaller story which introduces the mythology and opens the door to sequels.

You can't try to shoehorn in several decades of myths and several books into
one film ,which is based on a title with very little GA recognition.

And this is going to be the narrative, that they've tried to put too much into a single film, but unless I'm missing major contributions from Susannah, Eddie, a talking train, an Emerald City and countless other things, this is clearly not all the books being shoved into one movie. They've taken elements from a few books, which was always the plan for this first film.

And let's be honest here, aside from the sequences that bring Jake to Midworld, which fits in fairly organically, the things that they've apparently "shoved in" with regard to mythology seems to be the fairly typical "end of the world, beam in the sky" scenario and some henchmen.

Those kinds of story elements shouldn't be that difficult to "shove in" to pretty much any story with a dash of adventure in it, nor should they be all that hard to follow for general audiences.

Think about it. If audiences can't follow those things, how would they somehow be able to follow the relevant events of The Gunslinger, which is a smaller story, but arguably one of the more meandering books.

I doubt the creators were unaware that they could adapt The Gunslinger, but the choice was obviously made to try to be a bit less esoteric with the first entry. That may have been the wrong choice, but I don't think the issue here is that they didn't simplify the story enough. Quite the opposite.
 
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For someone whose a fan of the books can you explain what looks so bad and what's off about it? I'm interested to hear that perspective.

The main issue that the film is packaged as a sci-fi fantasy action movie. The Dark Tower is resolutely none of these things. It's actually an extremely difficult series of books to characterise, which is one of its main appeals. The heaviest influence from the get go is Sergio Leone's spaghetti westerns. Roland is directly influenced by Eastwood's The Man With No Name, both visually, and in terms of his characterisation, to a certain extent.

There's a captivating surrealist element to the story that is totally missing from this movie, apparently. The Gunslinger essentially ends with Roland talking with The Man In Black, who shows him hints at the true nature of the universe, along with a warning to The Gunslinger that pursuit of The Dark Tower will bring him nothing but trouble and pain. 'Death... but not for you Gunslinger'.

Without a doubt, The Gunslinger, and The Dark Tower in general is an extremely hard series to film. It features things that sound ridiculous when spoken about out of context - killer lobsters / doors standing against nothing on an empty beach / sexual demons in stone rings / a psychotic pink train / beams of energy guarded by big robot animals wearing revolving satellite dishes on their heads ... and so on. But the brilliance of the story (the first part of it anyway) is that it all makes sense within the confines of the universe, and none of it seems silly in context.

The film makers have quite clearly been terrified of the surrealist elements of the story, and have dropped them all in favour of tired genre tropes and cliches. Roland is NOT a hero in The Gunslinger. Walter is NOT a straight villain. The quest for the tower is NOT a noble one. Nobody is black and white. Everyone is a shade of grey. It isn't straight forward. In fact, some times it can be frustratingly obtuse. But that's part of its appeal. It's flawed, but it's never, ever boring or unoriginal. Unlike this film, from the looks of things.

This movie appears to take a complex, surreal, multi-genre, meditative epic about obsession, entropy, and existence itself.... and turns it into a good vs bad guy sci-fi movie about saving the world :whatever:
 
Honestly, the only way you could probably do Dark Tower justice is a long form animated series.
 
Honestly, the only way you could probably do Dark Tower justice is a long form animated series.

I think live action long form is fine. There's nothing in it visually that's too hard with clever use of practical and CG effects. The main issues are casting it right, and allowing the story to breathe properly and not rush it. ...and make the necessary changes away from King's self indulgent meta narrative stuff too.
 
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It appears they did.

It doesn't look like it, not if they're including Low-Men, at least one Taheen, the Dixie Pig and the house on Dutch Hill. Sticking closer to the book would have given the audience fewer elements to deal with, and it's not like including them appears to have worked out. A travelogue with bits of the fall (to explain why Roland is pursuing Walter/Flagg) between Brown, the way station/Jake, and the slow mutants may have been more optimal.
 
It doesn't look like it, not if they're including Low-Men, at least one Taheen, the Dixie Pig and the house on Dutch Hill. Sticking closer to the book would have given the audience fewer elements to deal with, and it's not like including them appears to have worked out. A travelogue with bits of the fall (to explain why Roland is pursuing Walter/Flagg) between Brown, the way station/Jake, and the slow mutants may have been more optimal.

I'm saying it looks like they included Gilead stuff.
 
You know what, looking at some of the various box office predictions that have come out that put this movie's opening BO haul at about early to mid-twenties, and judging from the lacklustre promotional campaign and negative social media, I'm actually going to make a prediction of my own for opening weekend that should surprise no-one who's read the books:

I think The Dark Tower will make 19 million dollars this weekend.

EDIT: it appears Sony are also predicted a 19 million opening.

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Are these reviewers verified or just randos?
 
So I guess that tweet was some veiled sarcasm?

It just seems TV is the better format for stories like this. Why? With TV, you can get high production values comparable to films now, AND you can get more experimental than you can do with a big movie. With TV the way it is now, with streaming, tablet viewing, mobile viewing, etc., you aren't worrying about theatrical money or opening weekends. It doesn't have to hit a $100 million threshold. It's a lot less risky, and you have to worry less about focus group test scores and appealing to as wide an audience as possible. You can do a lot crazier and experimental and unconventional narrative material and fans will still eat it up. Case in point Twin Peaks and all the general weirdness Lynch and Frost have done with it this season and gone even further and crazier with it than fans anticipated. It's even more experimental than the original series ever was on network TV. And Twin Peaks essentially pioneered doing crazy, experimental and unconventional material for TV.

I haven't read these books, but from the way fans of the books have described them, Dark Tower is in no way conventional or traditional with a lot of its storytelling, and it has a lot of weird, surrealist concepts that don't really translate to a mainstream movie franchise. And again, with TV now, you can experiment with weirdness and the surreal and you can do it with decent budgets and production values that weren't applicable in the 90s and even the aughts.
 
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I never read the books either, but I thought the trailer seemed interesting. They had my attention from the moment they started playing Ennio Morricone's locket theme from For a Few Dollars More hoping it would be a sci-fi/western love letter to Sergio Leone. Those are some of my favorite films. But I gather the final film here looks to be a disaster based on looking through this thread.
 
I never read the books either, but I thought the trailer seemed interesting. They had my attention from the moment they started playing Ennio Morricone's locket theme from For a Few Dollars More hoping it would be a sci-fi/western love letter to Sergio Leone. Those are some of my favorite films. But I gather the final film here looks to be a disaster based on looking through this thread.
This is exactly what it should have been. The basis for Roland was clearly Eastwood from the Dollars trilogy.
 
And this is going to be the narrative, that they've tried to put too much into a single film, but unless I'm missing major contributions from Susannah, Eddie, a talking train, an Emerald City and countless other things, this is clearly not all the books being shoved into one movie. They've taken elements from a few books, which was always the plan for this first film.

And let's be honest here, aside from the sequences that bring Jake to Midworld, which fits in fairly organically, the things that they've apparently "shoved in" with regard to mythology seems to be the fairly typical "end of the world, beam in the sky" scenario and some henchmen.

Those kinds of story elements shouldn't be that difficult to "shove in" to pretty much any story with a dash of adventure in it, nor should they be all that hard to follow for general audiences.

Think about it. If audiences can't follow those things, how would they somehow be able to follow the relevant events of The Gunslinger, which is a smaller story, but arguably one of the more meandering books.

I doubt the creators were unaware that they could adapt The Gunslinger, but the choice was obviously made to try to be a bit less esoteric with the first entry. That may have been the wrong choice, but I don't think the issue here is that they didn't simplify the story enough. Quite the opposite.
In your attempts to be super literal, you are clearly avoiding the point. They decided to play scattershot with the narrative, picking and choosing stuff from the first 3 books to play with. This is why it is a narrative mess in theory. It jumps around, without telling an actual story. And that is before we get into them seemingly changing the motives of the Man in Black.

And the Gunslinger is incredibly easy to adapt in well under 2 hours, without skimping on the action. We live in a world where Westworld has just started and is already becoming a big deal. And that meanderings like crazy. And lets not even get into the meandering LotR that worked so damn well. The Gunslinger does not need to meander at all, and this is just an excuse of why they have decided on their disastrous approach. Just like the defense of The Fantastic Four, which did the same thing in abandoning the source material, leading to a disaster.
 
In your attempts to be super literal, you are clearly avoiding the point. They decided to play scattershot with the narrative, picking and choosing stuff from the first 3 books to play with. This is why it is a narrative mess in theory. It jumps around, without telling an actual story. And that is before we get into them seemingly changing the motives of the Man in Black.

Darth, sometimes words and their meaning, and contexts, matter.

it's a disingenous, hyperbolic statement to make.

If the argument is "They tried to shove all the elements from all the books into one film", then that argument is factually inaccurate. They have clearly not attempted to do that, and they flat out TOLD us what their approach was going to be before this ever got off the ground. They were going to draw from several of the books...not all of them.

Is your argument that it is a narrative mess because it isn't faithful?

Because general audiences likely don't know how faithful it is. People who have never read the books don't know that. And I seriously doubt their test audience was made up of all Dark Tower diehards, or we wouldn't have ended up with the "Slam Evil" marketing campaign. So if it was a narrative mess in test screenings, the reason it was a narrative mess doesn't neccessarily have to do with the fidelity to the source material.

If they played scattershot with the narrative, at least based on the trailer, they nontheless seem to have picked some of the broadest stuff possible. The types of concepts that should fit into pretty much any "adventure" or "fantasy" narrative. Why wouldn't they? A world ending threat? Henchmen? That's as generic as it gets, and not especially difficult to fit conceptually into a number of types of narratives.

And the Gunslinger is incredibly easy to adapt in well under 2 hours, without skimping on the action. We live in a world where Westworld has just started and is already becoming a big deal. And that meanderings like crazy.

I don't know about "incredibly easy".

Yes, Westworld meanders a bit. Which you can do in an episodic, television format, because the story elements are meant to be viewed within the larger season narrative when assessing the structure of the story.

That doesn't really fly in a film. When a film meanders, it gets called unfocused, incoherent, etc...people ***** about pacing, and so on.

And lets not even get into the meandering LotR that worked so damn well.
The Gunslinger does not need to meander at all

Eh, LOTR meanders a whole lot less than the books. They very much streamlined it when they adapted it.

Unless you're going to adapt it faithfully, in which case, compared to most stories, it very much does kind of need to meander. A bunch of fairly random stuff just kind of happens in The Gunslinger, and in subsequent books. Deus Ex Machina stuff, random stuff that Roland just knows about that wasn't really set up...kids showing up out of nowhere, does that random stuff have a meaning within the plot? Yes. It's still random. Tonally jarring in places. From a narrative standpoint it is, dare I say it, kind of a mess.

and this is just an excuse of why they have decided on their disastrous approach. Just like the defense of The Fantastic Four, which did the same thing in abandoning the source material, leading to a disaster.

I have never excused anything here.

I am simply talking about the possible reasons this film shaped up as it did, and the process of its adaption.
 
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Just got back from a screening. This film definitely forgot the face of its father.

Feel free to ask questions.
 

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