Fantasy Mike Flanagan's Adaptation of Stephen King's 'The Dark Tower'

[Finarfiniel]

Anyway, after just watching what has to be the worst series finale I’ve ever seen, it just makes me glad that King finished his magnum opus before someone adapted it into a TV series, otherwise the show runners might have had to wing it in later seasons and turn out something awful.

Don't even get me started on the GoT finale, I just posted my thoughts on that mess in the general thread in the GoT forum.

It does make me wonder though, if this show really does take off in a big way, ends up having 8+ seasons like GoT and actually makes it all the way through to the end of Roland's story and the last book, how the general audience would react to King's ending and the

Spoiler

re-set button/the whole Dark Tower making Roland repeat his quest over and over until he gets it right thing.

I know some readers don't like and felt cheated by the ending of the book series. I personally love it and find it entirely fitting with the nature of the rest of the series, but I can understand why some don't....

 

[Deck Rickard]

Don't even get me started on the GoT finale, I just posted my thoughts on that mess in the general thread in the GoT forum.

It does make me wonder though, if this show really does take off in a big way, ends up having 8+ seasons like GoT and actually makes it all the way through to the end of Roland's story and the last book, how the general audience would react to King's ending and the

Spoiler

re-set button/the whole Dark Tower making Roland repeat his quest over and over until he gets it right thing.

I know some readers don't like and felt cheated by the ending of the book series. I personally love it and find it entirely fitting with the nature of the rest of the series, but I can understand why some don't....

Yeah, that ending was always going to be controversial and King knew it; so much so that he more or less put a disclaimer in the book right before it. I totally dug it, but I can see why some constant readers didn’t care for it. My only issue with the ending is

Spoiler

the non-confrontation with the Crimson King and how pathetic he ultimately ends up being (though maybe that was the point).

 

[Brother Jack]

Yeah, that ending was always going to be controversial and King knew it; so much so that he more or less put a disclaimer in the book right before it. I totally dug it, but I can see why some constant readers didn’t care for it. My only issue with the ending is

Spoiler

the non-confrontation with the Crimson King and how pathetic he ultimately ends up being (though maybe that was the point).

That was the point. King has used similar tropes with some of his other villains.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I’m not deep into Wizard and Glass but does it make sense to start with the fourth book instead of the Gunslinger or the prequel book?

This was a while back, but I just wanted to say it makes sense to read the books in the order of their release. The Gunslinger is the first story for a reason. Reading Wizard and Glass first is like a giant spoiler, without context. It would be like starting to read HP with the flashback chapters of HBP and DH before, but somehow worse.

 

[Finarfiniel]

Yeah, that ending was always going to be controversial and King knew it; so much so that he more or less put a disclaimer in the book right before it. I totally dug it, but I can see why some constant readers didn’t care for it. My only issue with the ending is

Spoiler

the non-confrontation with the Crimson King and how pathetic he ultimately ends up being (though maybe that was the point).

I agree with @Brother Jack, I think that was kinda the point. I mentioned this in the IT movie thread the other day (whilst discussing King's best villains), I actually like how King handled

Spoiler

the Crimson King's eventual fate. I think it was very clever how CK ended up effectively defeating himself through his own vanity. His endless scheming to destroy the Dark Tower and therefore the multiverse was directly responsible for his own insanity (as his sanity slowly degraded along with the very reality he was trying to destroy) and in the end he was so insane that he didn't even have the mental faculties to be a real threat any longer. It's a unique way to deal with a formerly supremely powerful 'boss villain' like old Crimson and I appreciate that. It was the way that King killed off Walter/Randall/The Man in Black (e.t.c) that really bothers me, not so much that he was killed by Mordred, but more the fact that we never got the final confrontation between him and Roland that the books were seemingly building up to, it felt like a massive cop out and disappointment to me.

This was a while back, but I just wanted to say it makes sense to read the books in the order of their release. The Gunslinger is the first story for a reason. Reading Wizard and Glass first is like a giant spoiler, without context. It would be like starting to read HP with the flashback chapters of HBP and DH before, but somehow worse.

Rorschach has already read the first three books and has recently started Wizard and Glass, I think he was asking if it was a good idea to start the show from that point, not to start reading from that point.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Rorschach has already read the first three books and has recently started Wizard and Glass, I think he was asking if it was a good idea to start the show from that point, not to start reading from that point.

My mistake. As to that, I don't think it is a good idea, but I will take what I can get after that movie.

 

[Finarfiniel]

My mistake. As to that, I don't think it is a good idea, but I will take what I can get after that movie.

What movie?

 

[Finarfiniel]

According to IMDb we have our Susan. A Portuguese actress called Joana Ribeiro. I have no idea how accurate this is, but it seems to be a weird thing to make up with such a relatively unknown actress with very little English language acting credits to her name so I'm leaning towards it being true. It makes me wonder with them seemingly casting a Latin actress as Susan if they're going to go full on into the Mejis being a 'twinner' of Mexico thing that's hinted at the books. She's certainly very beautiful!

 

[Deck Rickard]

I agree with @Brother Jack, I think that was kinda the point. I mentioned this in the IT movie thread the other day (whilst discussing King's best villains), I actually like how King handled

Spoiler

the Crimson King's eventual fate. I think it was very clever how CK ended up effectively defeating himself through his own vanity. His endless scheming to destroy the Dark Tower and therefore the multiverse was directly responsible for his own insanity (as his sanity slowly degraded along with the very reality he was trying to destroy) and in the end he was so insane that he didn't even have the mental faculties to be a real threat any longer. It's a unique way to deal with a formerly supremely powerful 'boss villain' like old Crimson and I appreciate that. It was the way that King killed off Walter/Randall/The Man in Black (e.t.c) that really bothers me, not so much that he was killed by Mordred, but more the fact that we never got the final confrontation between him and Roland that the books were seemingly building up to, it felt like a massive cop out and disappointment to me.

Yeah, I agree with all of that, I do like how the CK has deteriorated due to millennia spent trying to destroy the tower. I guess I just wanted to see him do more than throw Harry Potter balls at Roland, lol. But I did like how he was defeated. And yeah, I wanted a final confrontation between Roland and Walter.

Also, glad we have our Susan! Looking forward to see how they handle the love story between Roland and her. Hopefully it doesn’t feel too much like a cheesy teen romance lol.

 

[Persona]

I was kind of hoping Susan would be black as a sort of sly nod to Susannah later but this girl certainly ain't harsh on the eyes, and does still bring an element of diversity (plus with a last name like Delgado, I guess it makes a lot of sense that they went with a Latina).

And I've weighed on this before but I actually think it was smart of them to approach the story with the back-story first. Hook 'em with attractive, young, semi-innocent Roland (and his young ka-tet) and then crush them in S2 or whatever with grizzled, old, broken Roland.

 

[Persona]

I guess Joana was in The Man Who Killed Don Quixote. And I like Terry Gilliam's work but this is now the first time I've wanted to watch The Man Who Killed Don Quixote.

 

[Finarfiniel]

Also, glad we have our Susan! Looking forward to see how they handle the love story between Roland and her. Hopefully it doesn’t feel too much like a cheesy teen romance lol.

I hope they actually lift some of King's dialogue directly from the page during the scene when Roland and Susan first meet because (as I believe you've already said in this thread), it's a wonderful piece of writing and dialogue, incredibly romantic but not cheesy in the slightest. I hope that Strike and Ribeiro have good chemistry because that will really help getting Roland and Susan's immediate and deep connection across well to the audience.

I was kind of hoping Susan would be black as a sort of sly nod to Susannah later but this girl certainly ain't harsh on the eyes, and does still bring an element of diversity (plus with a last name like Delgado, I guess it makes a lot of sense that they went with a Latina).

And I've weighed on this before but I actually think it was smart of them to approach the story with the back-story first. Hook 'em with attractive, young, semi-innocent Roland (and his young ka-tet) and then crush them in S2 or whatever with grizzled, old, broken Roland.

I really like that they've cast a Latina actress as Susan, it fits with the parallels that Wizard and Glass draws between the Mejis of Mid-World and the pre-industrial Mexico of our world in their respective culture, dress, architecture and general way of life.

And yeah, starting with Roland's back-story first definitely gives the show the strongest chance to survive long-term in my opinion. I'm glad they're doing it this way. Introducing the whole multiverse and world-hopping elements later on with older Roland (after only merely hinting at that kind of thing in the back-story) is a great way to throw a gigantic curve-ball to the general non-book reading audience later on and keep them hooked too. The ground work about the Dark Tower, the Crimson King, the Beams and all that good stuff can still be laid in the back-story (Roland learned about most of these things through his father as a boy after all) to be expanded on later.

 

[Neno_Kos]

she is beautiful.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I was kind of hoping Susan would be black as a sort of sly nod to Susannah later but this girl certainly ain't harsh on the eyes, and does still bring an element of diversity (plus with a last name like Delgado, I guess it makes a lot of sense that they went with a Latina).

And I've weighed on this before but I actually think it was smart of them to approach the story with the back-story first. Hook 'em with attractive, young, semi-innocent Roland (and his young ka-tet) and then crush them in S2 or whatever with grizzled, old, broken Roland.

So they are just going to recast the main character in the second season?

 

[Persona]

obviously I don't know but if they are trying to stick to the basic framework of the books (in chronological order, though) I would guess yes, it will be a different, older actor.

Ana Padrao is going to be playing Cordelia, Susan's aunt. Good actress, keeping with the Latina theme.

it seems pretty smart how they are putting the pieces together.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

obviously I don't know but if they are trying to stick to the basic framework of the books (in chronological order, though) I would guess yes, it will be a different, older actor.

Ana Padrao is going to be playing Cordelia, Susan's aunt. Good actress, keeping with the Latina theme.

it seems pretty smart how they are putting the pieces together.

Doesn't that feel odd to do for a successful show? Also considering how the timeline actually plays out, can they cover all that in the first season?

 

[Roose Bolton]

They could potentially keep going and adapt more of the prequel stuff from the comics, like John Farson and the Fall of Gilead in the second season and then pull a Crown and recast older for season 3 onwards.

 

[Marvolo]

Vikings also recasted numerous times to age up characters. If the material and characters are good the viewers will accept the recasting.

 

[Persona]

Doesn't that feel odd to do for a successful show? Also considering how the timeline actually plays out, can they cover all that in the first season?

Odd? I mean, it's a very odd book series.

From what I understand they are trying to sort of follow the books this time out. And the rumor is that the first season is 13 episodes. I think 13 episodes is plenty of time to cover the Gilead back-story plus the Mejis stuff. The way Stephen King wrote Wizard & Glass, he really dragged it out. That book could have been half the length, easy.

 

[Persona]

They could potentially keep going and adapt more of the prequel stuff from the comics, like John Farson and the Fall of Gilead in the second season and then pull a Crown and recast older for season 3 onwards.

Yeah, that's certainly a possibility.

I guess I have to wonder what Mazzara's intention is. If his priority is to try to get Amazon to do the whole book series narrative, his current plan is probably something like 5-6 seasons. Cover the Gilead back-story and the majority of Wizard & Glass in S1. Then I would picture S2 as probably a combo of The Gunslinger and The Drawing of the Three, maybe even dipping into the third book to the point where they get Jake again.

Last 3-4 seasons cover the rest.

Of course, if the first season is a hit, they might shift their plan to more of a 8-9 season plan. Still, I kind of doubt they'd do a whole season with more prequel stuff, unless Mazzara has plans of serious truncation for the later part of the narrative.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Odd? I mean, it's a very odd book series.

From what I understand they are trying to sort of follow the books this time out. And the rumor is that the first season is 13 episodes. I think 13 episodes is plenty of time to cover the Gilead back-story plus the Mejis stuff. The way Stephen King wrote Wizard & Glass, he really dragged it out. That book could have been half the length, easy.

What I mean is that if they did it how the books played out, I could see how they could kind of intercut it over the length of a season or even the show. Doing that would mean they start with the Roland we are going to spend the majority of the series with.

I am not saying it isn't going to work and I am definitely excited. It just feels like a weird way to handle this and it makes me wonder how much this has to do with the movie being made in the first place and thus the original intention for the show.

 

[Persona]

Big time jumps between seasons has become more of a thing recently, so maybe the producers feel emboldened that they can pull that off and it will be received well.

Or maybe they aren't thinking that far ahead and they feel like starting the show this way gives them the best chance of getting more seasons greenlit.

 

[Persona]

No idea if this has any validity but IMDB says this will come out in March 2020.

 

[Deck Rickard]

So many questions on how this could play out. They could certainly base the second and maybe the third season on young Roland and adapt the Long Road Home and Jericho Hill. I think you could probably do all that in the second season but I suppose they could stretch it out into three seasons if they want to.

Beyond that though, I think you have to let “young Roland” go and delve into the main story, which would require recasting. Because there simply isn’t enough material for them to get to 5-6 seasons of Roland as a young man. And if they try that, then they’ll end up needing to create wholly original story arcs. And while it’s possible that they could create some really fascinating new adventures for Roland, I’d much rather see the books adapted. Such a scenario would also risk this series suffering the same fate that Game of Thrones’ latter seasons did.

 

[Finarfiniel]

Yeah, that's certainly a possibility.

I guess I have to wonder what Mazzara's intention is. If his priority is to try to get Amazon to do the whole book series narrative, his current plan is probably something like 5-6 seasons. Cover the Gilead back-story and the majority of Wizard & Glass in S1. Then I would picture S2 as probably a combo of The Gunslinger and The Drawing of the Three, maybe even dipping into the third book to the point where they get Jake again.

Last 3-4 seasons cover the rest.

Of course, if the first season is a hit, they might shift their plan to more of a 8-9 season plan. Still, I kind of doubt they'd do a whole season with more prequel stuff, unless Mazzara has plans of serious truncation for the later part of the narrative.

So many questions on how this could play out. They could certainly base the second and maybe the third season on young Roland and adapt the Long Road Home and Jericho Hill. I think you could probably do all that in the second season but I suppose they could stretch it out into three seasons if they want to.

Beyond that though, I think you have to let “young Roland” go and delve into the main story, which would require recasting. Because there simply isn’t enough material for them to get to 5-6 seasons of Roland as a young man. And if they try that, then they’ll end up needing to create wholly original story arcs. And while it’s possible that they could create some really fascinating new adventures for Roland, I’d much rather see the books adapted. Such a scenario would also risk this series suffering the same fate that Game of Thrones’ latter seasons did.

I think my ideal scenario in a perfect world would be 8 seasons. Seasons 1-2 would be based around young Roland, the first season culminating in Roland, Cuthbert and Alain's battle against Farson's forces in Mejis and Susan's death, the second season culminating in the fall of Gilead and the Battle of Jericho Hill. Season 3 would then jump forward to older Roland and the events of The Gunslinger and then proceeding from that the next 6 seasons would all cover the main events of the book series. The likes of Sam Strike, Jerome Flynn and Joana Ribiero can still be kept around periodically (if possible) for flashback scenes in the latter seasons, the events of The Little Sisters of Eluria and The Wind through the Keyhole in particular could be dealt with via flashback. It's certainly going to be extremely interesting to see how Mazzara and co deal with the challenge of adapting this very unusual book series if it's indeed successful enough to get multiple seasons.

It all of a sudden occurred to me earlier today who my ideal Man in Black would be - Mads Mikkelsen! Remembering how totally creepy, intense and unsettling he was in Hannibal, he just seems like the perfect fit for Walter. Also, having Marten being played by a Finnish actor, it feels kind of fitting that Walter, another guise of the very same guy, would be played by another Nordic actor.