Stop Complaining Please! Is Anybody Else Sick of It?!

[javon]

yup....I'm not sure about the hate part...unless someone got a little personal....

 

[Goddessreicho]

This is one of the best threads ever! Reading these posts put a smile on my face.

 

[javon]

Me too!

 

[Retroman]

THAT'S what I was looking for. Thanks Retroman.

Your welcome.

 

[Hack and Slash]

people flaming each other asses always makes my day

 

[ntcrawler]

Is this your attempt at fan-art? Or are you just trying to be cute?

You're the one beating the dead horse...CONSTANTLY.

And?

I peak in to this forum to get a chuckle because I find it hard to believe some fans are still whining about the same thing over and over again.

Obviously you do. It's time to step off that peak and put your feet back on solid ground. And after you do, wake up to reality. Because this is reality. New people keep showing up and bringing up the same topics. Last time I checked there is no law against this.

I get it already, X3 didn't meet your expectation or your vision of how you think the characters should be interpreted.

Again, you single me out like I'm the only one. I still don't think you have a grasp on reality. You just like to single me out because you have no one else to pick on at the moment. That or maybe I am getting my points across and making myself visible.

It's three months after the release and people are posting the exact same OPINIONS over and over again as if they were fact. They may be your REASONS but they're still just your opinions.

The fact that more and more people keep showing up after seeing the movie at a later date and coming to the same conclusion should send a message. And obviously one of those messages is that it's not just ME who feels this way. There were plenty of those who felt like me before I came to these boards, and there are plenty more who will come after ME. Does that frighten you?

You may be of the opinion that the earth is really flat but that doesn't make it a fact.

No, I believe the Earth is round and that is a fact which I had the opportunity to verify for myself. What's your opinion?

It doesn't matter how many times you post it or how eloquently you try and explain yourself.

But it does make me more than just a pointless whiner or supporter who declares something as being absolute without backing it up now, doesn't it? And it doesn't matter how many times you try to rebutt me. You and people like you are not going to discourage me.

I've explained my OPINION before and I've backed it with my REASONS why I enjoyed this film.

Good for you

The second post in this thread has ntcrawler quoting IMDB reviews to back his opinion as if it's the common opinion of a majority of people who see the film.

No, I used it to illustrate a few points. I did not declare my opinion at that point. And actually alot of what I posted is being supported by others and what they posted already to this thread, so it may be just a bit more common than you're willing to believe. Complaints such as the movie having bad pacing, bad editing, being incoherent, little or no char development or depth is quite a common opinion and reflected not only across this but also on the XVerse and Xmenfilms boards.

It's not so, in my very last post, I did the same. I've used two real facts in my occasional trips to this forum. One, Ebert and Roeper praised this film and that they are America's preeminent critics. Most people consider their reviews to be "smart" and most acknowledge them as the top critics in the world.

No, you used the term "smart critics" in general, implying that in your opinion that if critics like the film, they are smart, and if they don't? Well your feelings on them are also painfully obvious.

Two, the fact that the box office numbers are stellar indicate that X3
pleased quite a few people.

Absolute box office alone does not make a movie to be successful. Theweepeople has already posted exhaustive explanations refutting this flawed claim. Especially since the hype and advertising was designed to get as many people to see the movie ONCE, and used false advertising, promising things that were not in the movie or essentially showing the movie in the trailers.

The very definition of anal-retentive whining is meticulously stating your point over and over again as to draw out some sort of pleasure.

Like you do over and over again with everything you post?

It may seem ironic that I'm taking the time to write this to counter that thought but so be it.

I feel truly honored that you're taking time from your busy life and schedule to write to us.

I've defined the overall attitude of hating this movie based on fanboy expectations as "anal retentive fanboy idiot" behavior. The anal retentive and fanboy aspects are obviously a given.

As is your superiority complex. I don't even have to try to counter this statement. It's self-implicating on its own. You're truly showing the world your best colors.

The only question is can pointlessly howling at the moon and constantly critiquing a successful film be considered idiotic?

Only if that's your only purpose in life.

Expressing your opinion and your disappointment and then moving on is normal. Fanatically *****ing day in and day out months after release is abnormal.

So is talking down to people like you are the voice of reason or hold the moral high ground. Your words obviously don't support either. Instead, I see you bashing those who don't share your views, and considering them to be inferior to your superior intellect and tastes.

Again, what you see here is reality. If you can't deal with it, then go sit in a corner and rock back and forth in self denial. Because reality isn't going to change its ways for your sake or to make you happy. I know what reality is. Now it's your turn to face up to it as well.

I'll leave with another fact. Borderline irrational whining only accomplishes one thing at this point. It makes the powers that be tune out the fanboy community altogether.

Your hypothesis is incorrect since it's been established that with regards to this franchise FOX has not been very friendly or accomodating to the fan community in the first place. The fact that they act the way they only proves that they tuned out the fan community almost from the moment that X3 was officially declared to be in production by FOX's managers.

 

[BMM]

You're the one beating the dead horse...CONSTANTLY. I peak in to this forum to get a chuckle because I find it hard to believe some fans are still whining about the same thing over and over again. I get it already, X3 didn't meet your expectation or your vision of how you think the characters should be interpreted.



It's three months after the release and people are posting the exact same OPINIONS over and over again as if they were fact. They may be your REASONS but they're still just your opinions. You may be of the opinion that the earth is really flat but that doesn't make it a fact. It doesn't matter how many times you post it or how eloquently you try and explain yourself. I've explained my OPINION before and I've backed it with my REASONS why I enjoyed this film.

The second post in this thread has ntcrawler quoting IMDB reviews to back his opinion as if it's the common opinion of a majority of people who see the film. It's not so, in my very last post, I did the same. I've used two real facts in my occasional trips to this forum. One, Ebert and Roeper praised this film and that they are America's preeminent critics. Most people consider their reviews to be "smart" and most acknowledge them as the top critics in the world. Two, the fact that the box office numbers are stellar indicate that X3 pleased quite a few people.

The very definition of anal-retentive whining is meticulously stating your point over and over again as to draw out some sort of pleasure. That appears to be the only reason to hop from web site to web site trying to bash a film that the average movie fan enjoyed on one level or another. It may seem ironic that I'm taking the time to write this to counter that thought but so be it. I've defined the overall attitude of hating this movie based on fanboy expectations as "anal retentive fanboy idiot" behavior. The anal retentive and fanboy aspects are obviously a given. The only question is can pointlessly howling at the moon and constantly critiquing a successful film be considered idiotic? Expressing your opinion and your disappointment and then moving on is normal. Fanatically *****ing day in and day out months after release is abnormal.

I'll leave with another fact. Borderline irrational whining only accomplishes one thing at this point. It makes the powers that be tune out the fanboy community altogether. I'm sure X3's inevitable massive DVD sales will be rationaled away by the fanboys that hate Fox but it's really getting harder and harder to take some fans seriously.

I don't know why it's so surprising to you that the same topics be mulled over again and again. For a month you continued to make negative threads such as these after each of your previous ones had been closed:

7-28-2005 - Batman Fans Are The Most Delusional On Earth - BB Extremely FLAWED


8-7-05 - Batman Begins: Plot Holes that spell OVERRATED


8-9-2005 Why do any remotely negative BB threads get closed immediately?



Six months later you are clearly still bitter about it, making passive aggressive jabs at Batman fans with statements like these in threads that you began that were yet again closed.

Batman Begins, while a step up from the previous Bat gwano, was decent at best . . .

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=215842

and now, a full year later, you still attempt to make negative comments such as this . . . in your own thread that you have to periodically bump.

Are you talking about the same movie that has absolutely crapped on Batman Begins box office numbers? That movie?

and then you further antagonize posters, as though their opinions are lesser than your's . . . another post yet again regarding Batman Begins as being one of the best superhero films of all time . . . and you continue to maintain the same negative attitude.

Keep telling yourself that. Maybe one day even you will believe your own BS.

Living in ignorance does seem to suit many here.

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=240956&page=6



not to mention passive agressive posts such as this yet again calling into question Brandon Routh's sexuality . . . a topic that has long since been dead and beaten for almost 2 years (http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9514720&postcount=30), in an attempt to rile up fanboys, begging responses such as "Seriously Brandon just come out of the closet already, and save yourself the embarrassment!"

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9514720#post9514720



We all make negative posts.

 

[ntcrawler]

Exactly. Everyone will have a certaint opinion about the movie, good or bad. Theirs nothing wrong with that. Especially for poeople who have been following the comics and shows and X-men period for some years now.

Those people are the ones being accused of being anally-retentive idiotic fanboys.

That kind of judgement is uncalled for and unfair. I haven't come across comic fans accusing the general public of being ignorant, foolish or idiotic for daring to like the film. I certainly don't hate people for liking the film.

 

[Mike059jig]

those threads posted are hilarious..LMAO

 

[oneteen]

Now that I think about it, this WHOLE THREAD is a big complaint about complainers.

 

[ntcrawler]

I don't know what it's so surprising to you that the same topics be mulled over again and again. For a month you continued to make negative threads such as these after each of your previous ones had been closed:

7-28-2005 - Batman Fans Are The Most Delusional On Earth - BB Extremely FLAWED

8-7-05 - Batman Begins: Plot Holes that spell OVERRATED

8-9-2005 Why do any remotely negative BB threads get closed immediately?

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=215842

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showthread.php?t=240956&page=6

(http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9514720&postcount=30

Oh wow, so the skeletons in the closet come out, eh. Shame on him!

 

[Goddessreicho]

Those people are the ones being accused of being anally-retentive idiotic fanboys.

That kind of judgement is uncalled for and unfair. I haven't come across comic fans accusing the general public of being ignorant, foolish or idiotic for daring to like the film. I certainly don't hate people for liking the film.

I am very glad you said this Ntcrawler. It compliments how I feel about this film. As a follower of the comics, and a vocal member of a particular shunted fanbase, I have plenty of reasons to not like this film, but I do try to make the best of it, seeing as how it is all that I have on screen. Not that many people feel the way that I do, I don't hate them. But it can easily stop people from sleeping at night and boggle their mind on the porcelin god.

I definitly don't hate the general public for liking this film. In the end they are the ones that deterimine what color the bottom line will be. Bit**, whine, complain, and vent about Fox all you want but at the end of the day, they serve their material to the general public. If they tried to please fan groups they would still end up angering other fans (no two fans are alike). I saw joke on Conan desribing the President as a "Cable Prez". He shoots for 28%. That would desribe what fans want perfectly.

In a situation like this, there is no middle ground.

 

[CapBeerCino]

Ratner: I don't think it's a shot. I don't think it's something like Spike Lee with the shot of the guy floating down the street. (laughter) I think it's more of an energy. If you watch the other movies and you watch this movie, I think this movie has a pace that's my kind of ADD frenetic... I get bored very easily so... next scene, next scene, next scene, keep it moving, keep it moving, keep it moving... I mean, did you fall asleep at all in the film or no? A few times?

Hu??? Hu?! That makes him proud? The pace is the worst shortcoming! Who let this guy do anything else other than jessica simpson's roller skating video and WHY?

 

[thegameq]

This is not intended as a bash, nor am I talking down to you or anyone else. Consider it more of an explanation.........

The Phoenix Saga is one of the most well know and beloved stories in comicdom. Factor in the character driven nature of the X-men and you have an incredible, stunning, heart rending, fantastic tale....

At the end of X2, the hint at the Phoenix Saga was obvious. Singer I believe even went so far as to say he was setting up the Phoenix Saga for X3 & X4, LOTR/Peter Jackson style. Now I don't know what the audience reaction to the end of X2 was where you live, but in my theatre, the obvious elation at the prospect of a live action version of the Phoenix Saga bought to life on the big screen had the theatre in a near uproar.

Understanding a fans expectations:

Obviously many were dissappointed in X1. Besides the obvious deviation from the comics, short running time, etc. Many gave the film a great deal of slack (yours truly included;I am no fan of Singer's vision, but his X2 was entertaining) because it was after all the first movie, which for all intent and purpose was a litmus test of sorts for these types of films at the time. Most had already surmised after the first film that X2 wasn't going to be like the comicbook at all sadly, yet held out hope. The opening scenes and the school invasion scenes in X2 bought many comicbook fans closer to their realized dream. The end of X2 took many X-fans over the edge and gave them hope beyond hope....while they knew it wasn't going to be the comicbook X-men X2 gave them hope... just the thought of the Phoenix Saga.....imaginations seem to have literally ran wild causing, no doubt some unreasonably high expectations, yet (to be expected) high expectations nonetheless. This is the Phoenix Saga afterall....

Between then and now........

Raimi and Columbia gives us the Spider-man films and blows the "can't do it like the comicbook" excuse into oblivion. Perhaps somewhat even worse, Peter Jackson redefines the fantasy film with his LOTR trilogy, proving that artistic integrity, fantasy, acting, drama, appeal, profitability and critical acclaim can coexist without stooping to the low heights most people are used to from fantasy films (popcorn flick). Nolan and WB's Batman Begins (despite some debate over Nolan's vision) doesn't help. The bar has been raised BIG TIME.....

The now..........

Singer leaves for SR. Fox goofs by not locking Singer in for X3. Singer given the chance to recreate (of sorts) one of his childhood naturally leaves to do his dream projectLet the politics begin....

Enter Brett Ratner who is by fact or opinion not exactly an A-list director. I know, neither was Singer at the time, but Ratner's resume is nothing to brag about--AT ALL. He is tapped by Fox to come in under unfavorable circumstances to get the job done. GET THE JOB DONE, not make a great movie. To add insult to injury, the much beloved Phoenix Saga is all but reduced to a simple side story. Citing the cost of f/x among other reasons, Fox and the writers claim their intentions was never to do the Phoenix Saga. The boardroom takes over and X3 gets driven by the suits rather than the creative process. Instead of focusing on making a fillm worthy of the Phoenix Saga, the focus becomes to beat WB/SR to the box office.

Instead of the Phoenix Saga, fans get what they feared and loathed. A somewhat shallow popcorn flick.

In short....

The fans are the reason why comicbook films exist in the first place. Whether you agree with that or not makes no difference because it is fact not opinion. Popularity driven by the fans is the only reason these films are green-lighted at all. Now we all know there will never be a "verbatim" translation to the big screen from the comicbooks--but to get it close enough or as close as possible is what most fans ask for. X2 was able to do that somewhat despite Singer's obvious and at times blatant deviation from the comics. Thus the reason his vision is often given a free pass of sorts. For the Phoenix Saga fans wanted and expected more on a much grander level befitting the Phoenix Saga.

The following can be applied to any comicbook ( or novel/story adaptation in its own way)...

You have 40yrs. of comics. You have (x)years of loyal fans mixed in during that time. Fans that have grown with the characters over the years. You announce you're doing a movie based on said extremely popular comic or a particular story from said extremely popular comic. The expectations are high naturally.

View the situation from a fans standpoint. Better yet, take something you cherish deeply and deface it. Have someone belittle it. would it feel good? Would you get over it so easily? Would you be upset? Would you vent if given the chance to or bottle it up?

I know the negativity can seem overwhelming, but how do you expect the fans to feel?

 

[weatherwitch]

*snicker* Seriously? *snicker* An entire thread of this s#*t? Wow *busts out laughing* Mwuahahahahaahahahahahahahaahhahahahaahahahahahahahahahaha. *wipes eyes* Ok, I'm good.

 

[Goddessreicho]

*waves exuberantly at WW* you missed the good stuff. I think I may certain someone cry...*cough*

 

[ntcrawler]

Hu??? Hu?! That makes him proud? The pace is the worst shortcoming! Who let this guy do anything else other than jessica simpson's roller skating video and WHY?

I agree. This kind of director should be limited to doing films which are action only. Such as movies involving lots of chase scenes or constant adrenaline-pumping fighting and shootouts.

Let me requote the guy:

"I think this movie has a pace that's my kind of ADD frenetic... I get bored very easily so... next scene, next scene, next scene, keep it moving, keep it moving, keep it moving"

this is fine and works for certain movies, especially if the tone of the movie is supposed to be fast. Like the movie SPEED for example.

But when you have a movie that's supposed to have scenes that are supposed to be slow and tender, such as a ROMANTIC scene (Alkali Lake, Bobby and Rogue, Bobby and Kitty, characters opening up to each other), then is exactly what you DON'T want to do. When a character is in tears, opens up, and kisses someone, you want them to have enough time for them to SAVOR that kiss. You can still interrupt it and make a sudden change. In Spiderman 2 during that scene in the cafe when Mary Jane and Peter's moment is rudely interrupted by Doc Oc throwing a car (and thus ruins the mood), it at least had plenty of time to breathe and develop beforehand, long enough to let you feel the impact of the moment.

If he gets bored easily, then it's clear that he's not working on a project he truly loves or appreciates. A true artist never gets tired of or gets bored with his work.

 

[weatherwitch]

*waves exuberantly at WW* you missed the good stuff. I think I may certain someone cry...*cough*

*waves* Awww... that's a shame.

 

[X-Maniac]

Well, I like X3... even though it's flawed. All three X-movies have been flawed in several ways. (For instance, X2 set up the wonderful idea of fathers passing on the mutant gene, then failed to give it the ironic pay-off of Stryker being ultimately responsible for his mutant son, not Xavier or anything else).

Other superhero/comicbook movies are also flawed - Batman Begins has a microwave weapon that only affects water for example - and I must confess I was ABSOLUTELY STAGGERED that SR was as flawed as it was, given the financial/creative freedom (and time) given to the director - and I also found it less enjoyable than X3 even if disregarding its flaws.

I wouldn't say I was a fanboy or a hater - otherwise i wouldn't have the SR novelisation and The Art of SR book.

For me, SR had vast plotholes and 'WTF?' moments that undermined most of the story, and a far too sombre tone. I thought X3 had fewer 'holes' and a lot more entertainment.

X3 has more flow from X2 than Singer's SR has from Superman 1 and 2 with its 'vague history' and ignored plot points (the kiss etc). Too much vague - which was also a flaw in Singer's X1 and X2 (Jean's Phoenix story and Storm's motivational backstory being particular victims of vagueness).

If we're talking X3, I liked it, despite the lack of subtlety and breathing space in places, despite the truncation of the Phoenix story, despite the lack of detailing that would explain things like how the Brotherhood got to SF, how Angel got there etc...

If we're talking X3 vs X1 and X2, it's hard for me to choose. I like and dislike parts of all three movies.

If we're talking X3 vs SR, I prefer X3. If we're talking Singer vs Ratner, it's hard to say as Ratner came in at the last minute and had a relatively small involvement in development of the movie. Each director has strengths and weaknesses. They could each learn something from each other. Singer could learn to be less vague, less sombre and to have more interpersonal conflict/action; Ratner could learn to apply more attention to the details that connect the story and let emotions and subtleties breathe a little longer (with a bit more dialogue perhaps) before moving on to the next scene.

 

[javon]

Those people are the ones being accused of being anally-retentive idiotic fanboys.

That kind of judgement is uncalled for and unfair. I haven't come across comic fans accusing the general public of being ignorant, foolish or idiotic for daring to like the film. I certainly don't hate people for liking the film.

me neither. The film was a little in bopth, 50/50. It was good, but moreover, it could have been better. Everything just went by too fast to grasp. I was like "What the heck is going on?". And Storm...I expected so much from her as well as various other characters.

 

[javon]

If we're talking X3 vs SR, I prefer X3. If we're talking Singer vs Ratner, it's hard to say as Ratner came in at the last minute and had a relatively small involvement in development of the movie. Each director has strengths and weaknesses. They could each learn something from each other. Singer could learn to be less vague, less sombre and to have more interpersonal conflict/action; Ratner could learn to apply more attention to the details that connect the story and let emotions and subtleties breathe a little longer (with a bit more dialogue perhaps) before moving on to the next scene.

Agreed.

 

[X-Maniac]

me neither. The film was a little in bopth, 50/50. It was good, but moreover, it could have been better. Everything just went by too fast to grasp. I was like "What the heck is going on?". And Storm...I expected so much from her as well as various other characters.

I also expected a lot from Storm. We still got no backstory/origin, despite the balcony scene being a perfect place for it to be part of dialogue.

And, although we finally saw flying... she only used lightning and fog. No rainstorm, no tidal wave, no waterspout, no subtle stuff like sensing/altering air pressure/temperature...

 

[javon]

I also expected a lot from Storm. We still got no backstory/origin, despite the balcony scene being a perfect place for it to be part of dialogue.

And, although we finally saw flying... she only used lightning and fog. No rainstorm, no tidal wave, no waterspout, no subtle stuff like sensing/altering air pressure/temperature...

I know. And that got so cought up with showing everything in the trailers, tv spots, and the 7-minute opreview that their was nothing surprising about her. I was so angry, well with her being my favoritecharacter in all of comic book history.

 

[BMM]

I also expected a lot from Storm. We still got no backstory/origin, despite the balcony scene being a perfect place for it to be part of dialogue.

And, although we finally saw flying... she only used lightning and fog. No rainstorm, no tidal wave, no waterspout, no subtle stuff like sensing/altering air pressure/temperature...

Agreed.

 

[javon]

I concure.