Suicide: Is it right or wrong?

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Yeah, what about living for attention.

 

[guitarsingerguy]

My father comitted suicide, and I think it was both a blessing and a curse.

 

[TKing]

^That's tragic. I'm so sorry. Unless he had a fatal condition, and that was the best way to go.

 

[guitarsingerguy]

^That's tragic. I'm so sorry. Unless he had a fatal condition, and that was the best way to go.

It's alright. It was so long ago it's almost ancient history. However, no, he did not have some fatal condition. If he hadn't killed himself, then I would have eventually done it, but at the same time, he was my dad. That's what I mean by the whole blessing and curse.

 

[The Punisher]

Suicide in Japan is considered honorable.

 

[raybia]

I was just wondering what you guys thought about suicide. Do you agree with it? In some cases, is it acceptable? Or should we just be grateful for what we have and remember that there are people less fortunate than us?

Personally, I think if someone is so convinced that the only option left is to take their own life, I think they should have the right to make up their own mind. As long as it doesn't involve other people, eg. walking in front of a bus, mentally scarring that bus driver for the rest of his/her life.

Anyways, I'm really interested to hear your views.

Certainly we all have the freedom to do it. How can anyone stop you if you really want to do it.

However, its wrong. All problems are eventually solve without a person killing themselves. If it was really that bad, I think I would just take a $5000 or more cash advance on my credit cards and book a one way ticket to Costa Rica without telling anybody.

Cannot get any worse but theres a good chance it could get better.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

If it was really that bad, I think I would just take a $5000 or more cash advance on my credit cards and book a one way ticket to Costa Rica without telling anybody.

Cannot get any worse but theres a good chance it could get better.

You,...are aware that there are people who have no money, are homeless, have not a single friend in the entire world, were sexually abused by their parents, have lost their limbs to diabetes, are blind, starving, addicted to crack and unable to score any, have hideous, painful skin diseases and tumors, etc.

I, fail to see how a trip Costa Rica would alleviate any of their problems, even if they COULD go.

 

[raybia]

You,...are aware that there are people who have no money, are homeless, have not a single friend in the entire world, were sexually abused by their parents, have lost their limbs to diabetes, are blind, starving, addicted to crack and unable to score any, have hideous, painful skin diseases and tumors, etc.

I, fail to see how a trip Costa Rica would alleviate any of their problems, even if they COULD go.

Yes I am. I was saying what I would do if ever driven to the point of seriously committing suicide.

I would rather run from my problems (if only temporarily) than killing myself.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

Yeah, but you're saying that it's morally wrong, and that there is ALWAYS a solution to the problems.

Well, you're only thinking of your own circumstance, and assuming that there WOULD be a solution to your problems in the future.

It's a lot easier for someone to say "It's wrong. There's always a better option." when they assume everyone's life is as good as theirs is and that they will never come upon insurmountable problems.

 

[Sandman138]

My father comitted suicide, and I think it was both a blessing and a curse.

Same. Did it when I was six or seven. I can't even remember what year, but I remember waking up and finding out that he was dead like it was yesterday.

 

[raybia]

Yeah, but you're saying that it's morally wrong, and that there is ALWAYS a solution to the problems.

Well, you're only thinking of your own circumstance, and assuming that there WOULD be a solution to your problems in the future.

It's a lot easier for someone to say "It's wrong. There's always a better option." when they assume everyone's life is as good as theirs is and that they will never come upon insurmountable problems.

Well, my life is actually pretty difficult at the moment and I have had some good times in life, great times, and some pretty ****ty times too.

When I look at life on a global perspective, I'm certainly been blessed and even my bad times could have been even worse but I cannot advocate suicide as a way of coping with life. Its a cope out instead. How can you know if life can get better if you don't give it a chance.

Now the big question is...Is there exceptions? I'll say yes because I believe there are somethings worse than death...like oppression and persecution and there just don't see a way to escape it and mere existence is pure hell.

 

[mister Lennon]

Suicide is wrong, just for cowards.

 

[Wilhelm-Scream]

All right.
It's these people that look at a 98 year old woman, who looks like a corpse already, and cancer has spread so far throughout her body that pain killers can't even work anymore, and she literally moans all day long, begging to die, and they say that she's going to Hell if a loved one helps her end it.

They will go to Hell long before she will.

 

[chosen1]

Can someone tell me why my posts are getting deleted????????????????????

 

[raybia]

All right.
It's these people that look at a 98 year old woman, who looks like a corpse already, and cancer has spread so far throughout her body that pain killers can't even work anymore, and she literally moans all day long, begging to die, and they say that she's going to Hell if a loved one helps her end it.

They will go to Hell long before she will.

Even if suicide is wrong doesn't mean she or anyone would go to hell because they did it. As far as sins are concerned I can think of alot more things that are worse.

Wihelm, sounds like that person is already in hell, I think I would risk it.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Yes I am. I was saying what I would do if ever driven to the point of seriously committing suicide.

I would rather run from my problems (if only temporarily) than killing myself.

I think you fail to see the overarching problem. To prove suicide is wrong, you have to prove living has some intrinsic value to it. That by living you are in fact doing the "right" thing.

So unless you believe suicide is a one way non stop ticket to hell, and those who choose life [can] choose heaven, then you'd have to show in some other way how life has value.

Someone who is an invalid in a wheelchair with no chance of recovery arguably is neither benefitting himself or society by living. Actually you could even go further to say his dead body would serve as a specimen for research and better serves us dead than alive.

If you kill for attention, only to be forgotten, then truly since death is a certainty living for the same reason is equally as bad. Therefore attention grabbing, and not suicide (or choosing life) is the morally wrong thing.

For a "my life sucks" suicide. Let's look at it this way. Let's say someone works for a company where they are no good at their job, don't get along with fellow staff, and just feel overwhelmed. If they were to quit that job, rather than wait for their behavior to get them fired, would we look down on that decision. It's possible that in some cases their quiting actually benefits the greater good. Sure we'll have to replace that person, but perhaps his replacement will fulfill his spot much better than he did.

I'd say "I know some of this sounds insensitive", but I am fairly certain at this point I am close to rejecting society as a whole.

 

[raybia]

I think you fail to see the overarching problem. To prove suicide is wrong, you have to prove living has some intrinsic value to it. That by living you are in fact doing the "right" thing.

So unless you believe suicide is a one way non stop ticket to hell, and those who choose life [can] choose heaven, then you'd have to show in some other way how life has value.

Someone who is an invalid in a wheelchair with no chance of recovery arguably is neither benefitting himself or society by living. Actually you could even go further to say his dead body would serve as a specimen for research and better serves us dead than alive.

If you kill for attention, only to be forgotten, then truly since death is a certainty living for the same reason is equally as bad. Therefore attention grabbing, and not suicide (or choosing life) is the morally wrong thing.

For a "my life sucks" suicide. Let's look at it this way. Let's say someone works for a company where they are no good at their job, don't get along with fellow staff, and just feel overwhelmed. If they were to quit that job, rather than wait for their behavior to get them fired, would we look down on that decision. It's possible that in some cases their quiting actually benefits the greater good. Sure we'll have to replace that person, but perhaps his replacement will fulfill his spot much better than he did.

I'd say "I know some of this sounds insensitive", but I am fairly certain at this point I am close to rejecting society as a whole.

I don't believe suicide is a one way ticket to hell. I think the way a person lives dicates whether they are in heaven or hell...in this lifetime.

As far as life having intrinsic value, there are countless examples of that if one would only observe. Life can be wonderful if you are willing to work for it by living right.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

I don't believe suicide is a one way ticket to hell. I think the way a person lives dicates whether they are in heaven or hell...in this lifetime.

As far as life having intrinsic value, there are countless examples of that if one would only observe. Life can be wonderful if you are willing to work for it by living right.

You should put that on a hallmark card, however other than sounding nice, I'd say it's fairly moot.

Everyone says life has value, however proving life has value is a totally different matter. Other than us occupying a finite and infinitimally small space and time, in the scheme of things humans seem to not matter at this point.

We don't alter the future in any great degree, we don't control the forces that control us. Scientifically we are small, insignificant creatures on an insignificant planet rotating a insignificant and small star. Scientifically we are also said to be the result of accidents and chance.

So empirically there is no way for me to prove human's individual value. However, if there was it stands to reason that some among us would have little or no value, and thus their existence would be a burden not a value for society and humanity.

 

[Ben Urich]

I'm torn. Yeah, suicide is cowardly and selfish, but I also believe that a person's life belongs only to them and they have a right to end it if they choose.
So I don't know

 

[raybia]

You should put that on a hallmark card, however other than sounding nice, I'd say it's fairly moot.

Everyone says life has value, however proving life has value is a totally different matter. Other than us occupying a finite and infinitimally small space and time, in the scheme of things humans seem to not matter at this point.


Well, my rational mind tells me that life has value but you have to be willing and able to observe and understand life in action. Yes there is the dark side of life but there is also the light side that is bright and full of hope and promise. Your scope of human life is too limited. Its much more grand that what you give it.


We don't alter the future in any great degree, we don't control the forces that control us. Scientifically we are small, insignificant creatures on an insignificant planet rotating a insignificant and small star. Scientifically we are also said to be the result of accidents and chance.

Are you serious? The future has been affected going back to the first man. Individually, it may seem that many of us are insignificant just like a worker ant in a hive but we all make a contribution to community life. Collectively is where our significance becomes apparent. Mankind, while still not perfect and a long way to go, is evolving. We are no longer by and large an uncivilized race, we have become civilized with more people and Governments respecting and helping to meet the needs of the human beings.

When I look at the perfection of the Universe and the order within it, I know its not the result of an accident and chance.

So empirically there is no way for me to prove human's individual value. However, if there was it stands to reason that some among us would have little or no value, and thus their existence would be a burden not a value for society and humanity.

You don't have to prove it to anyone. You just need to have a theory that that human life has value and then search for evidence among people, within the Earth, and the entire Creation, but also don't forget to search within yourself for evidence as well.

Human life not only has purpose but we have a grand purpose and a special destiny, whether you believe it or not. However we as a human race have to cultivate the great potential we as humans have in order to fulfil this.

I hope you can learn of the value and purpose of life. If you cannot find what it is, then I would suggest you come up with one for yourself.

With your current outlook on life, anyone would have an miserable existence.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

You don't have to prove it to anyone.

Yeah actually you do.

You just need to have a theory that that human life has value and then search for evidence among people

First off you don't start off with a theory. Piss poor reasoning. Means you've already made up your mind.

within the Earth, and the entire Creation, but also don't forget to search within yourself for evidence as well.

Okay let me start a list...

Human life not only has purpose but we have a grand purpose and a special destiny, whether you believe it or not.

*cough*prove it*cough*

However we as a human race have to cultivate the great potential we as humans have in order to fulfil this.

We cannot even stop our own deaths or control our own fates. Everything we build will one day be gone and no legacy left behind. Such is out fate, no matter what we do.

We record all this information, almost as diversion, however our mark on this universe is as small and unimportant as a passing cloud of dust.

I hope you can learn of the value and purpose of life.

We assign our own value to life, however it's a construct. Perhaps to keep us from going insane and killing ourselves. It simply protects our base instinct, which is to procreate.

If you cannot find what it is, then I would suggest you come up with one for yourself.

But is that actual value or simply perceived value. Because to prove suicide is wrong you'd have to show actual value for that person to live, not precieved. If you have to decieve a person into living then his life is truly not worth anything at all.

With your current outlook on life, anyone would have an miserable existence.

No actually I am fairly happy, because I understand my fate and I don't try to run from it. I don't need religion or tacked on meaning to my life.

Besides it not my outlook on life, nor did I claim it was, however I was pointing out that your outlook is severely flawed. Every life is sacred only to you. However when faced with the burden of proof on that claim, you cannot show me anything. Except your standard empassioned speech about this and that.

Show me something concrete, show me something that humans do that will live on FOREVER and you'll successfully prove that anyone who committs suicide is a fool, until then what you say is meaningless.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

Are you serious? The future has been affected going back to the first man. Individually, it may seem that many of us are insignificant just like a worker ant in a hive but we all make a contribution to community life. Collectively is where our significance becomes apparent.

Uhhhh...no. We've affected no future. We are not avoiding any fate that was not dealt to us years before our existence. Therefore the only future we've affected is an insignificant drop in the bucket. When the Universe ends everything we've made is gone forever and ever.

That is fact. You can deny it up and down, but it's true.

Mankind, while still not perfect and a long way to go, is evolving. We are no longer by and large an uncivilized race, we have become civilized with more people and Governments respecting and helping to meet the needs of the human beings.

Okay and what does that do for the Universe exactly Actually all our urbanization and civilization seems to actually be killing us off faster by using up more resources than we would have under natural selection, wow we are winners.

When I look at the perfection of the Universe and the order within it, I know its not the result of an accident and chance.

The Universe is actually extremely chaotic. I'm not sure if you've heard of entropy, but it's that one law of science that seems completely apparent to anyone who studies science. Things tend towards decay and chaos. The Universe is far from perfect. Black holes, dark matter, super novas, dead galaxies, clusters, and nebulas ought to indicate this much to anyone.

 

[Bill]

I don't know. My worst day living has got to be better than my best day dead. But if you want to do it, then that's your choice. I don't think it's an issue of "right" or "wrong". If you're (not you, but anybody) really contemplating it, get help. It's out there.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

I don't know. My worst day living has got to be better than my best day dead. But if you want to do it, then that's your choice. I don't think it's an issue of "right" or "wrong". If you're (not you, but anybody) really contemplating it, get help. It's out there.

In essence that's how I view suicide. Ultimately it's your choice. I wouldn't. I cannot really give you a strong reason as to why, just don't want to. However for those who committ suicide, it's not necessarily cowardly or brave, only situation.

 

[SoulManX]

Lyrics to the song 'Suicide is Painless'

Through early morning fog I see
visions of the things to be
the pains that are withheld for me
I realize and I can see...
[REFRAIN]:
that suicide is painless
It brings on many changes
and I can take or leave it if I please.
I try to find a way to make
all our little joys relate
without that ever-present hate
but now I know that it's too late, and...
[REFRAIN]
The game of life is hard to play
I'm gonna lose it anyway
The losing card I'll someday lay
so this is all I have to say.
[REFRAIN]
The only way to win is cheat
And lay it down before I'm beat
and to another give my seat
for that's the only painless feat.
[REFRAIN]
The sword of time will pierce our skins
It doesn't hurt when it begins
But as it works its way on in
The pain grows stronger...watch it grin, but...
[REFRAIN]
A brave man once requested me
to answer questions that are key
is it to be or not to be
and I replied 'oh why ask me?'
[REFRAIN]
'Cause suicide is painless
it brings on many changes
and I can take or leave it if I please.
...and you can do the same thing if you please.
​