Superhero Cinematic Civil War - Part 56

[Sithborg]

I dunno, Morbius and his hand suckers were super creepy...

 

[kguillou]

Its a shame we’re not ever going to see Venom and Spidey come to blows. That whole symbiote storyline is just ripe with amazing potential for an incredible Spiderman movie.

 

[Mjolnir Reborn]

Its a shame we’re not ever going to see Venom and Spidey come to blows. That whole symbiote storyline is just ripe with amazing potential for an incredible Spiderman movie.

You weren't satisfied with this masterpiece? That's just greedy.

 

[kguillou]

You weren't satisfied with this masterpiece? That's just greedy.

Amazing how that fan film gif looks like it could be a Raimi movie. Sigh, its a shame Raimi never got to make a 3rd movie...

 

[Boy Scout]

They definitely should. But so far it feels like they just won't.

I’m holding out hope that they’ll do something interesting with him once he goes to college. There’ll be no excuse not to.

I watched Spider-Man animated series in 90s. there was one creepy story. I think it was called "something-something nightmare" with a six-handed Parker. Perhaps the only thing I remember from it. It was rather creepy (for a kids show) and I never saw anything like that in any of the films. Maybe one of the reasons I'm not a fan of the movies, since the biggest impression was from the animated series and it wasn't really surpassed in my eyes.I'm aware that animated Spider-Man is more interesting than live action so far.

For sure. I liked the Raimi and Webb movies, but “my” Spider-Man is the one from the 90’s cartoon. I also really loved Spectacular Spider-Man. I hope it’ll get revived one day, but I don’t think it ever will.

 

[FunkMiller]

What I find a bit strange is the fact that Spidey is Marvel’s ‘crown jewel’ ... their Batman ... and yet, the stories they are giving him seem pretty inconsequential. I could kind of understand that pre-Endgame, but after it, I would have thought Spidey would be getting the ‘big’ stories ... whereas this new movie looks like it’s a fun little jaunt off round Europe that doesn’t really showcase so much of the Spider-Man mythos? Feels more like a story for a b-lister, rather than the main guy!

 

[Sithborg]

I mean, just because he is the crown jewel, doesn't mean his stories are world threatening. City threatening, sure. But he works best as the neighborhood friendly Spider-man.

 

[Flint Marko]

Spider-man’s stories, particularly in his younger days, were rarely ever “big”. Crime bosses and crazy scientists and the like.

They got Jake Gyllenhaal to play Mysterio, fishbowl and everything. They could re-do the origin three times in the first act and they’d still have my money.

 

[1627523]

What I find a bit strange is the fact that Spidey is Marvel’s ‘crown jewel’ ... their Batman ... and yet, the stories they are giving him seem pretty inconsequential. I could kind of understand that pre-Endgame, but after it, I would have thought Spidey would be getting the ‘big’ stories ... whereas this new movie looks like it’s a fun little jaunt off round Europe that doesn’t really showcase so much of the Spider-Man mythos? Feels more like a story for a b-lister, rather than the main guy!

Totally agree. I thought I was the only one that noticed. Hes a supporting character in a universe hes supposed to be main player in. I don't know if i like it or hate it atm.

 

[flickchick85]

It makes perfect sense to me. Marvel's not about to make a character they don't have full control over a centerpiece of their universe. As long as he's partially owned by another studio, he'll always be relatively small potatoes in the MCU, imo.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

It makes perfect sense to me. Marvel's not about to make a character they don't have full control over a centerpiece of their universe. As long as he's partially owned by another studio, he'll always be relatively small potatoes in the MCU, imo.

It would be downright reckless of them.

 

[Spider-Fan]

It makes perfect sense to me. Marvel's not about to make a character they don't have full control over a centerpiece of their universe. As long as he's partially owned by another studio, he'll always be relatively small potatoes in the MCU, imo.

Honestly, Peter has always worked best for me as a smaller time hero. I was never a huge fan of the era in which he became an Avenger and such. Spider-Man has always worked best as the little guy. The guy who flirts with the world of the Avengers, but mostly occupies a tier below them. The guy who has to hold several jobs on top of being Spider-Man and struggles to balance his life. This is where Spider-Man shines. Spider-Man should never be a guy like Iron Man or Captain America or Mr. Fantastic who is coming up with the plan to destroy the ultimate evil. He's the guy who is in way over his head and cracks jokes. That's why we love him. That's also why he cannot be the center of the MCU. He doesn't fit cleanly in that space. World ending threats are not his primary focus, nor should they be.

So in a way, I think it is best we have a scenario where the studio cannot try to fit that square peg into a round hole.

 

[CB Fan]

I liked the new trailer and I like the supporting cast. I don’t like that Michelle Jones is this universes MJ but I also didn’t like what the PS4 game did with their MJ either. Gyllenhaal’s Mysterio looks great and I like how he’s seemingly been studying the Avengers. Kinda surprised marvel didn’t include Captain Britain.

 

[OutOfBoose]

Ha, I remember actually having a nightmare about that story, and I wasn't even that young (like 11 or 12) when it aired!

I was about the same age. It left the mark for sure.

 

[FunkMiller]

I mean, just because he is the crown jewel, doesn't mean his stories are world threatening. City threatening, sure. But he works best as the neighborhood friendly Spider-man.

You misunderstand me a bit. I’m not suggesting the stories need to be world threatening and huge... it’s just that it all feels a little too lightweight and silly to me. Kind of like Antman. That’s where I feel the Spider-Man MCU movies are pitched at the moment. Whereas I’d like to see deeper stories, with more weight and power behind them, given how great Spider-Man is as a character. He’s the best Marvel character, so why does it feel like he’s a little b-list at the moment?

 

[Mjolnir Reborn]

What I find a bit strange is the fact that Spidey is Marvel’s ‘crown jewel’ ... their Batman ... and yet, the stories they are giving him seem pretty inconsequential. I could kind of understand that pre-Endgame, but after it, I would have thought Spidey would be getting the ‘big’ stories ... whereas this new movie looks like it’s a fun little jaunt off round Europe that doesn’t really showcase so much of the Spider-Man mythos? Feels more like a story for a b-lister, rather than the main guy!

I'd say that Spider-Man was their crown jewel but the superhero film age has changed things and right now no one is bigger than Iron Man.

As for the stories with Spidey, I think they are trying to make different films than Sony did on their own, while still being true to the character. I personally think it works that he feels a bit lightweight as he's a high school kid in a world with everything from tormented adults to gods, but I of course like the trouble burdened Peter as well as that's what I read growing up (although the set up in the MCU makes some of those troubles illogical). I hope and think that he gets to change as the character grows up, although there's of course always the uncertainty of Sony backing out.

As for the "pre-Endgame", I think there's a good chance that the result of Endgame changes reality in a way that make people unaware of the snap. I don't expect Peter to remember that he died, and I don't expect them to make the world into something where everyone walk around actively afraid of God's judgement, or whatever they see the decimation as. I think the long lasting effects will be with the Avengers, and maybe in that the world is different somehow.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

You misunderstand me a bit. I’m not suggesting the stories need to be world threatening and huge... it’s just that it all feels a little too lightweight and silly to me. Kind of like Antman. That’s where I feel the Spider-Man MCU movies are pitched at the moment. Whereas I’d like to see deeper stories, with more weight and power behind them, given how great Spider-Man is as a character. He’s the best Marvel character, so why does it feel like he’s a little b-list at the moment?

Yeah I agree with this, the Raimi's movies only ever had City level threats for him to deal with also, but the movies always felt 'epic' and 'big' at the same time. It was the same with the Nolan Batman movies.

 

[Iceman]

Spidey can be the smaller guy but his films can still have an epic feel like SM2.

 

[kguillou]

You misunderstand me a bit. I’m not suggesting the stories need to be world threatening and huge... it’s just that it all feels a little too lightweight and silly to me. Kind of like Antman. That’s where I feel the Spider-Man MCU movies are pitched at the moment. Whereas I’d like to see deeper stories, with more weight and power behind them, given how great Spider-Man is as a character. He’s the best Marvel character, so why does it feel like he’s a little b-list at the moment?

As incredible and innovative and game changing as Marvel/Feige’s cinematic universe model is, I think this is the inherent drawback to it: their films sometimes have that episodic, inconsequential feel to them because they are pieces to a larger puzzle. And so you can’t really be allowed to go too big or ambitious with them like say Raimi did with his epic coming-of-age approach in his first two movies. Thing is, Spiderman deserves that though, his movies should be of that caliber and not disposable little side quests.

 

[Sithborg]

You misunderstand me a bit. I’m not suggesting the stories need to be world threatening and huge... it’s just that it all feels a little too lightweight and silly to me. Kind of like Antman. That’s where I feel the Spider-Man MCU movies are pitched at the moment. Whereas I’d like to see deeper stories, with more weight and power behind them, given how great Spider-Man is as a character. He’s the best Marvel character, so why does it feel like he’s a little b-list at the moment?

Welcome to the MCU.

 

[Boy Scout]

I dunno, I feel like there are ways to have your cake and eat it too. A lot of it comes down to the presentation and writing. SMH felt small because they wanted it to, not necessarily because of the shared universe model.

 

[Mjolnir Reborn]

I dunno, I feel like there are ways to have your cake and eat it too. A lot of it comes down to the presentation and writing. SMH felt small because they wanted it to, not necessarily because of the shared universe model.

I agree with you. It comes off as an intentional choice to me, not something that comes forced from shared universe limitations. Then of course personal taste with align differently with the choices that are made.

Raimi's films did a very good job with the troubled Peter Parker, but on the flip side never really nailed the fun part of Spider-Man like the following attempts did. All of them have their pros and cons, although in terms of limitations I think Raimi had a more blank slate since the others kind of had to try to do something different when they rebooted the character. TASM is pretty different from Raimi's films but was still criticized for doing the origin story again.

 

[Spider-Fan]

True the Raimi films didn't emphasize the fun factor of Spider-Man as much, but I think there is a fine balance that has never been achieved. Spider-Man needs to be a fun escape for Peter to some extent, but it also has to be something requiring tremendous sacrifice and hardship. The reason Spider-Man is heroic is because he does it despite the hardships. Not because being Spider-Man is hip and cool.

 

[Boy Scout]

I agree with you. It comes off as an intentional choice to me, not something that comes forced from shared universe limitations. Then of course personal taste with align differently with the choices that are made.

I think they even admitted it during interviews.

Raimi's films did a very good job with the troubled Peter Parker, but on the flip side never really nailed the fun part of Spider-Man like the following attempts did. All of them have their pros and cons, although in terms of limitations I think Raimi had a more blank slate since the others kind of had to try to do something different when they rebooted the character. TASM is pretty different from Raimi's films but was still criticized for doing the origin story again.

I definitely think we’d have seen a more definitive take on the mythology in the MCU if the Webb films hadn’t happened. A lot of their decisions have come across as reactionary.

 

[Zarex]

True the Raimi films didn't emphasize the fun factor of Spider-Man as much, but I think there is a fine balance that has never been achieved. Spider-Man needs to be a fun escape for Peter to some extent, but it also has to be something requiring tremendous sacrifice and hardship. The reason Spider-Man is heroic is because he does it despite the hardships. Not because being Spider-Man is hip and cool.

I thought Homecoming did a decent job with this, with Peter sacrificing the normalcy of attending the prom with his dream date in order to fight Ms. Allen's terrifying father.

I know money problems are an ongoing aspect of Peter's mythos, but having a billionaire and a healthy, fairly youthful aunt with no mortgage on Team Spidey means that part is going to continue to be less of a concern for the MCU version.