Superman in Comparison to "those other guys"

[TheIntellectual]

I'll admit it, I'm a superhero fanboy. I'm utterly infatuated with the enduring mythos and allegories that go with the genre.

These last few years have been amazing for us comic book fans. Batman Begins was jaw droppingly powerful, Bryan Singer proved that the X-men is more than just a 60s metaphor, and Sam Raimi explored pop psychology with a poignant romance in Spider-Man.

Spider-Man 2 is the best superhero film ever made. It's unpredictable, wildly witty (the elevator scene is classic), and Tobe Maguire and Kirsten Dunst went from memorable in Spider-man 1 to unforgettable in this second installment. Say what you will about the somewhat flimsy CGI or odd pacing, but we empathized with Peter Parker. We cared about him. And when Mary Jane appeared on his door-step, I left the theater exhilarated and inspired.

Superman Returns premiered yesterday, and tonight I finally got a chance to see it. It is, in no short order, a wasted opportunity. It's positively mediocre. It's willing to take ballsy steps like adding a young kid to the plot, while simultaneously remaking Superman (1978) scene-by-scene with worse chemistry and admittedly incredible special effects.

Oh, and did I mention the obvious "He's JESUS!" allusions at the end? It's more pretentious than anything before it. Remember that scene in Spider-Man 2 where Peter collapses after saving the train full of people, and one of the guys notes "Christ, he's just a kid?". It was a tasteful homage to self-sacrifice.Those moments are what Superman Returns lacks. It's like the film is constantly struggling to find it's rhythm. When it should go for the over-dramatic jugular, we get nothing more than subtle signs of what could have been.

Take for instance, the central romance between Clark and Lois. Don't fault the actors, they're actually fairly good when they're not expected to generate chemistry on-screen with each other. The best romance scenes are those where the characters are separated from one another. It's an apt metaphor for the entire film. This film holds you at arm's length from start to finish; we never really understand what Superman is doing or feeling at a given moment. Is he trying to win Lois back out of loneliness, habit, or some odd sense of fate?

Remember those scenes in Spider-Man 2 where MJ and Peter just TORE into one another due to hurt feelings and other responsibilities? Imagine if instead of talking to one another, they just glanced at each other from across the room replete with awkward stares and gestures. That's Superman Returns in a nutshell. At times it reaches the greatness it aspires to, but more often than not, it's a tease.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I disagree with you.

On the first point, I don't believe that Spiderman 2 is the greatest superhero film ever. In my mind, that goes to X2.

Spiderman 2 was really just a longer Spiderman, there was not too much different about it. I often confuse the 2 in my mind because they are so alike. Both are excellent movies, I love them, but they just don't do enough for me.

Second, and the more important part, is I didn't get those feelings from Superman Returns at all.

Lois is conflicted, and it shows. She loves Superman because of her history with him. But he's been gone, and she's moved on with her life. Now it's Richard that she loves. But then Superman comes back. And with him come her old emotions. I felt the sense of struggle between her emotions throughout the entire film. It's not a lack of focus, but rather capturing real human emotion. I could never feel too certain about who she was going to pick... was she going to dump Richard for Superman? Was she going to tell Superman that she's moved on? I could never tell. And in a person in her position, she probably has the kind of emotions where SHE can't tell either.

There was much motivation for Superman to do what he did. In regards to Lois, he loved her. In regards to saving the world, well, he's Superman, that's what he does. I think the things that they did with his father captured where his motivation comes from.

Plus there's a measure of personal conflict with Lex Lugor. First, he's got the rivalry with him. Plus, it was his fault really that Lugor was let out of prison. And last, Lugor stole the crystals from where Superman went for
guidance from his father.

I dunno, I think that Bryan Singer did an amazing job with the movie. I liked it a lot. And I don't even really care for Superman at all. The character has never really interested me. But the movie kept me interested, and had me caring.

But to each his own.

 

[skruloos]

Plus there's a measure of personal conflict with Lex Lugor. First, he's got the rivalry with him. Plus, it was his fault really that Lugor was let out of prison. And last, Lugor stole the crystals from where Superman went for
guidance from his father.

So did Superman fight an old WCW wrestler in this movie? Wasn't aware Lex Luger even made an appearance.

 

[skruloos]

Take for instance, the central romance between Clark and Lois. Don't fault the actors, they're actually fairly good when they're not expected to generate chemistry on-screen with each other. The best romance scenes are those where the characters are separated from one another. It's an apt metaphor for the entire film. This film holds you at arm's length from start to finish; we never really understand what Superman is doing or feeling at a given moment. Is he trying to win Lois back out of loneliness, habit, or some odd sense of fate?

Remember those scenes in Spider-Man 2 where MJ and Peter just TORE into one another due to hurt feelings and other responsibilities? Imagine if instead of talking to one another, they just glanced at each other from across the room replete with awkward stares and gestures. That's Superman Returns in a nutshell. At times it reaches the greatness it aspires to, but more often than not, it's a tease.

And here's the main reason why I love the romance story in Superman Returns much more than Spider-man 2. The story between MJ and Peter was too melodramatic for me. It was almost like an adolescent love where everyone was wearing their hearts on their sleeve and emotions were always on the surface. There wasn't any dramatic tension to me because it was played too obviously.

But then again, that's how everything is played out in the Spider-man films. Everything is over-the-top from the action, the comedy, and the emotional relationships. It seems like a cartoon. Mind you, this isn't a bad thing. Hell, Spider-man 2 is number 5 on my Desert Island Top 5 Superhero movies list. But when I watch a film I don't want to see a Saturday morning cartoon.

Superman was a much more mature love story and it goes with the themes of lost love, moving on, and starting a family. It's subtle and under the surface as most of it is played with subtext. What one person says often doesn't correlate with what their eyes say. Their is longing, pain, and anger without having to yell it at one another. I don't need to here Superman tell Lois why he wants to be with her or that he hurts because she's with Lois. That would be expository dialogue and the golden rule of film is to show, not to tell. And Singer does this in every interaction the characters have.

I don't find the movie held me at arm's length at all concerning the love story. I just felt that Singer and company did not feel the need to shove it in my face and have it play out like a daytime soap opera. It doesn't try to talk down to the audience by explaining every little detail and just trusts the universal themes of love and longing.

But hey, it's not for everyone. I happen to appreciate films that are much more grounded in emotional reality.

 

[Tron5000]

I think that last line may qualify as a burn...

 

[miba2007]

My favourite Super-hero films are Daredevil & Superman Returns.

 

[Kane]

SR's romance I felt was handled in an elegant, regal, timeless way... like those classic 1940s films.

I didnt mind the romance stuff in Spiderman 2 either but alot of it reeked of Al Gough and Miles Millar. Smallville-ness.

 

[skruloos]

I think that last line may qualify as a burn...

Not meant as such. As I stated in my post, there is a place for both kinds of films. I just happen to prefer one over the other which is why I happen to rate Superman Returns above Spider-man 2.

 

[Lone]

I'll admit it, I'm a superhero fanboy. I'm utterly infatuated with the enduring mythos and allegories that go with the genre.

These last few years have been amazing for us comic book fans. Batman Begins was jaw droppingly powerful, Bryan Singer proved that the X-men is more than just a 60s metaphor, and Sam Raimi explored pop psychology with a poignant romance in Spider-Man.

Spider-Man 2 is the best superhero film ever made. It's unpredictable, wildly witty (the elevator scene is classic), and Tobe Maguire and Kirsten Dunst went from memorable in Spider-man 1 to unforgettable in this second installment. Say what you will about the somewhat flimsy CGI or odd pacing, but we empathized with Peter Parker. We cared about him. And when Mary Jane appeared on his door-step, I left the theater exhilarated and inspired.

Superman Returns premiered yesterday, and tonight I finally got a chance to see it. It is, in no short order, a wasted opportunity. It's positively mediocre. It's willing to take ballsy steps like adding a young kid to the plot, while simultaneously remaking Superman (1978) scene-by-scene with worse chemistry and admittedly incredible special effects.

Oh, and did I mention the obvious "He's JESUS!" allusions at the end? It's more pretentious than anything before it. Remember that scene in Spider-Man 2 where Peter collapses after saving the train full of people, and one of the guys notes "Christ, he's just a kid?". It was a tasteful homage to self-sacrifice.Those moments are what Superman Returns lacks. It's like the film is constantly struggling to find it's rhythm. When it should go for the over-dramatic jugular, we get nothing more than subtle signs of what could have been.

Take for instance, the central romance between Clark and Lois. Don't fault the actors, they're actually fairly good when they're not expected to generate chemistry on-screen with each other. The best romance scenes are those where the characters are separated from one another. It's an apt metaphor for the entire film. This film holds you at arm's length from start to finish; we never really understand what Superman is doing or feeling at a given moment. Is he trying to win Lois back out of loneliness, habit, or some odd sense of fate?

Remember those scenes in Spider-Man 2 where MJ and Peter just TORE into one another due to hurt feelings and other responsibilities? Imagine if instead of talking to one another, they just glanced at each other from across the room replete with awkward stares and gestures. That's Superman Returns in a nutshell. At times it reaches the greatness it aspires to, but more often than not, it's a tease.

I can't help but chuckle at that your "review".

It seems like you don't understand the film or the character and because you don't "get it" doesn't mean it's mediocre.

*looks at your username*

Ironic.

 

[Kane]

*looks at your username*

Ironic.

lol nice.

 

[sf2]

SPIDERMAN 1 & 2 SUCK!

i thought peter parker was such an intelligent student that dr. oct & mr. goblin had praised him several times. but no, he didn't get any scholarship (even tough he was an orphan and his uncle had passed away), his aunt couldn't pay for the house morgage, he couldn't make use of his talents but to deliver pizza. No pathetic enough, he lived in the squater, he couldn't cope up his school works (talented?), let's get him more pathetic, he killed his best friend's father, he indirectly killed his uncle and he couldn't get the girl he want!!!

what a pathetic life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

let all of us cry for spiderman!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ya, that's the so called the best superhero movie, so that you pathetic geeks can feel as him... and believe one day your pathetic life can turn into a superhero tale... lol.

 

[Tron5000]

Holy shnike that was rough...

 

[SatEL]

I'll admit it, I'm a superhero fanboy. I'm utterly infatuated with the enduring mythos and allegories that go with the genre.

These last few years have been amazing for us comic book fans. Batman Begins was jaw droppingly powerful, Bryan Singer proved that the X-men is more than just a 60s metaphor, and Sam Raimi explored pop psychology with a poignant romance in Spider-Man.

Spider-Man 2 is the best superhero film ever made. It's unpredictable, wildly witty (the elevator scene is classic), and Tobe Maguire and Kirsten Dunst went from memorable in Spider-man 1 to unforgettable in this second installment. Say what you will about the somewhat flimsy CGI or odd pacing, but we empathized with Peter Parker. We cared about him. And when Mary Jane appeared on his door-step, I left the theater exhilarated and inspired.

Superman Returns premiered yesterday, and tonight I finally got a chance to see it. It is, in no short order, a wasted opportunity. It's positively mediocre. It's willing to take ballsy steps like adding a young kid to the plot, while simultaneously remaking Superman (1978) scene-by-scene with worse chemistry and admittedly incredible special effects.

Oh, and did I mention the obvious "He's JESUS!" allusions at the end? It's more pretentious than anything before it. Remember that scene in Spider-Man 2 where Peter collapses after saving the train full of people, and one of the guys notes "Christ, he's just a kid?". It was a tasteful homage to self-sacrifice.Those moments are what Superman Returns lacks. It's like the film is constantly struggling to find it's rhythm. When it should go for the over-dramatic jugular, we get nothing more than subtle signs of what could have been.

Take for instance, the central romance between Clark and Lois. Don't fault the actors, they're actually fairly good when they're not expected to generate chemistry on-screen with each other. The best romance scenes are those where the characters are separated from one another. It's an apt metaphor for the entire film. This film holds you at arm's length from start to finish; we never really understand what Superman is doing or feeling at a given moment. Is he trying to win Lois back out of loneliness, habit, or some odd sense of fate?

Remember those scenes in Spider-Man 2 where MJ and Peter just TORE into one another due to hurt feelings and other responsibilities? Imagine if instead of talking to one another, they just glanced at each other from across the room replete with awkward stares and gestures. That's Superman Returns in a nutshell. At times it reaches the greatness it aspires to, but more often than not, it's a tease.

Well first before i start i would just like to say that what you have stated is your opinion and its respected.






































What film where you watching if it was the same film as me i am trully shocked that you can rank spiderman2 above Superman returns the only thing about spiderman2 that might give superman returns a run for its money is the action. Storywise SR leaves spiderman2 in the dirt besides its well known that superman the movie is the best superhero movie and spiderman2 took certain aspects of superman2 .



Oh and you would think that now that a superman film is back spiderman films can stop copying supes shirtrip since the whole homage excuse isnt needed anymore but judging from the spiderman3 teaser the copying continues.

 

[Lone]

Well first before i start i would just like to say that what you have stated is your opinion and its respected.






































What film where you watching if it was the same film as me i am trully shocked that you can rank spiderman2 above Superman returns the only thing about spiderman2 that might give superman returns a run for its money is the action. Storywise SR leaves spiderman2 in the dirt besides its well known that superman the movie is the best superhero movie and spiderman2 took certain aspects of superman2 .



Oh and you would think that now that a superman film is back spiderman films can stop copying supes shirtrip since the whole homage excuse isnt needed anymore but judging from from the spiderman3 teaser the copying continues.

They should come up with something original...instead of a shirt rip, why not do a mask pull-down...

 

[Hunter Rider]

WOW this thread is almost to perfect

Poster 1-"SR was poor i liked Spidey 2 a lot more,here are my reasons"

*In rushes all the SR fanboy's*

Multiple posters tear at Spidey and ******iate SR........


Mix and repeat for typical fan induced BS.............To the guy that started the thread,you should have just posted your review in the main thread that way you may have been less flamed although i feel you probably achieved what you wanted with this thread

 

[Tron5000]

WOW this thread is almost to perfect

Poster 1-"SR was poor i liked Spidey 2 a lot more,here are my reasons"

*In rushes all the SR fanboy's*

Multiple posters tear at Spidey and ******iate SR........


Mix and repeat for typical fan induced BS.............To the guy that started the thread,you should have just posted your review in the main thread that way you may have been less flamed although i feel you probably achieved what you wanted with this thread

A concise breakdown of everything that has occurred in this thread. Welcome to the SR boards. Spidey vs Supes all day, every day.

 

[skruloos]

WOW this thread is almost to perfect

Poster 1-"SR was poor i liked Spidey 2 a lot more,here are my reasons"

*In rushes all the SR fanboy's*

Multiple posters tear at Spidey and ******iate SR........


Mix and repeat for typical fan induced BS.............To the guy that started the thread,you should have just posted your review in the main thread that way you may have been less flamed although i feel you probably achieved what you wanted with this thread

That's funny that you say that. I think that you're ignoring the other posters who have actually made points about why they felt that the handling of the love story was better in SR than Spider-man. I thought that's what a discussion entailed. Or are you merely grouping everyone together as a generic "SR fanboy" stereotype?

 

[Hunter Rider]

That's funny that you say that. I think that you're ignoring the other posters who have actually made points about why they felt that the handling of the love story was better in SR than Spider-man. I thought that's what a discussion entailed. Or are you merely grouping everyone together as a generic "SR fanboy" stereotype?

I read the posts,it's the same "my film did this better than yours" crap from last year only with SR replacing BB and mixed in with a ton of snide remarks

 

[Hunter Rider]

A concise breakdown of everything that has occurred in this thread. Welcome to the SR boards. Spidey vs Supes all day, every day.

Yep,it's the ever present fanboy BS that plagues these boards

 

[SatEL]

WOW this thread is almost to perfect

Poster 1-"SR was poor i liked Spidey 2 a lot more,here are my reasons"

*In rushes all the SR fanboy's*

Multiple posters tear at Spidey and ******iate SR........


Mix and repeat for typical fan induced BS.............To the guy that started the thread,you should have just posted your review in the main thread that way you may have been less flamed although i feel you probably achieved what you wanted with this thread

Well judging from your avatar its clearly obvious why your here and i can only guess that the thread starter is a spidey fanboy but its clearly obvious this is what will happen if you post something like this is a superman forum.An example is Imagine a kid opening a website for his dad saying my dads the greatest and posts pics of his dad and then some other punk goes ahead and posts pics of thier dad on this kids dads site and says my dads better dont you think the kid has a right to flare up since its his dads site, And besides if the same thing happened on the spidey forum those fanboys would flame the person out of existance either way its 50/50.

 

[skruloos]

I read the posts,it's the same "my film did this better than yours" crap from last year only with SR replacing BB and mixed in with a ton of snide remarks

But wasn't that what the original poster was doing? He was saying that his film (Spider-man) did better than "our" film (Superman Returns)? Both Nell2ThaIzzay and I both addressed points that the original poster brought up and gave well thought out reasons to explain why SR happened to work better for us than what was shown in both Spider-man films.

 

[Mentok]

I didnt think much of Spidey 2.

 

[Mentok]

Well judging from your avatar its clearly obvious why your here

HUNTER is one of the best posters around. Thats why HUNTER is here.

 

[Tron5000]

HUNTER is one of the best posters around. Thats why HUNTER is here.

And he ain't playin' no favorites of Spidey over Supes. Believe it.

 

[skruloos]

I didnt think much of Spidey 2.

I loved Spider-man 2. A lot actually. But for some reason, it's not a movie that I could watch multiple times. I watched it once in the theater and 2 times on DVD all the way through. Otherwise, I just watch snippets of it.

I don't think it's a bad film by any means. I just happen to prefer the overall presentation of Superman Returns.