Superman & Lois Superman & Lois Original Discussion Thread

[fan4stic]

By better writing, I don’t mean that Batwoman is devoid of the standard superhero tropes and conceits. Thus, for example, there’s the typical suspicion of the hero’s true identity - followed by some subterfuge that reveals this (actually correct) suspicion to be “false.” This gimmick has occurred about a gazillion times in the comics and at least a few in the Arrowverse. I’m just saying that Batwoman handled it in a relatively interesting way. And I credit that to the writing.

Of course, you’re allowed to claim that these tropes - just by their very presence - are indicative of bad/hackneyed writing. But if you do that, you pretty much indict the entire genre - not just Batwoman.

That's the thing. I don't think I've ever seen a superhero live action tv show legit have a whole several episode story built around someone knowing and then undo it. It's usually an episode or so. Even Supergirl did away with the secret identity from love interest thing from Pilot. I also think it's more annoying given the recycling of tropes throughout the arrowverse, but I think with diminishing returns. Like the love triangle. Where I think it's the worst written love triangle I've ever seen developed at least in the arrowverse, if not DC live action shows in general. I think the 3rd point of triangle barely has a character, to the point where I question why the triangle exists at all. I think rotating another one of these shows with a triangle is annoying all by itself, but I think it's like they're not even trying with this one. Combine these things with the other issues I think the show has, like the lack of legal consequences for Jacob's wife with her messing with evidence, Kate blaming Jacob for thinking Beth was dead based on discovered bone evidence, and I think bland characters in Jacob, Sophie and Kate with them I think being weaker archetypes of characters the arrowverse shows I think have done better... It's not strong to me.

How was it done interestingly?

 

[Fran-el]

No one can deny that Brandon as Superman KC is perfect, but I think Tyler has not yet said everything, a redesign and it would also look spectacular!

 

[flickchick85]

No one can deny that Brandon as Superman KC is perfect, but I think Tyler has not yet said everything, a redesign and it would also look spectacular!
View attachment 30071

Not gonna lie, I'm perfectly happy with his current suit, but I can't deny that looks damn good.

 

[famicommander]

I'm sure we'll get several iterations of the Superman costume. Flash and Green Arrow have gotten new suits every year.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

No one can deny that Brandon as Superman KC is perfect, but I think Tyler has not yet said everything, a redesign and it would also look spectacular!
View attachment 30071

This is perfect.

 

[Herolee10]

I'm sure we'll get several iterations of the Superman costume. Flash and Green Arrow have gotten new suits every year.

It took Kara nearly 5 years before they upgraded her suit though.

 

[famicommander]

It took Kara nearly 5 years before they upgraded her suit though.

Her original suit was very, very accurate though.

 

[flickchick85]

Random note, but I'd kinda like to see Tyler grow his hair back out a bit.




He's got good hair for Supes, and he should use it!

 

[flickchick85]

It took Kara nearly 5 years before they upgraded her suit though.

Because they got it very right the first time. The new suit's not bad, but it's a downgrade, imo. And not because it has pants. It's mainly the materials, I think.

 

[Lone]

Random note, but I'd kinda like to see Tyler grow his hair back out a bit.

View attachment 30080 View attachment 30081


He's got good hair for Supes, and he should use it!

Heresy! Any Superman actor that naturally has the character’s hairstyle will have it parted the wrong way or slick it all back.

You know the rules.

 

[Fran-el]

Not gonna lie, I'm perfectly happy with his current suit, but I can't deny that looks damn good.

I have always defended the suit but I think that some changes would suit him and would be more accepted by people in general.

He's got good hair for Supes, and he should use it!

Totally agree, it looks much better.

 

[vantheman77]

Tyler could pull off several versions of Superman or Bizarro:
Injustice
Godfall
Rebirth
Evil Universe Superman (Superfriends)
Bizarro (Superfriends)

I also would like to see Superman and Lois' take on Flashpoint with a two-parter based on Project
Superman and Lois Lane & The Resistance.

 

[Dr.]

That's the thing. I don't think I've ever seen a superhero live action tv show legit have a whole several episode story built around someone knowing and then undo it. It's usually an episode or so. Even Supergirl did away with the secret identity from love interest thing from Pilot. I also think it's more annoying given the recycling of tropes throughout the arrowverse, but I think with diminishing returns.

[...]

How was it done interestingly?

Your notion that the Arrowverse/superhero formula is starting to feel a little tired has, I think, some merit. I.e., after four shows (five if you count Black Lightning), what new territory is left that Batwoman could explore? And presumably, this same liability will apply to the “Canaries” and “Clark & Lois” spinoffs. OTOH, the comics never worried about an excessive number of derivative, spinoff characters - or about reusing and repurposing storylines. So is it the case that comic book nerds just wink at this repetition while general TV audiences are not so forgiving? Maybe. I suppose it comes down to which position (nerd or general) you’re arguing from.

In terms of the secret identity thing… You say that this trope would be tolerable had it been introduced and resolved in a single episode. But I quite liked that it played out more slowly. Initially, it seemed that Sophie’s suspicion would perhaps lead her to join Luke as a second member of “Team Bat” (because, in the Arrowverse, every “solo” hero is actually an ensemble). However (and happily) that didn’t happen. Not yet anyway. Secondly, it was somewhat novel that Sophie’s reason for exposing Kate wasn’t based on malevolence or getting a news scoop. (It’s a puzzle why Silver Age Lois Lane was constantly trying to out Superman/CK. Had she succeeded, she would have effectively destroyed both personas.) Rather, Sophie’s motive was concern for Kate’s life. No more Batwoman means Kate is safe. So that’s what I mean by “interesting.” The scenario, itself, is old hat; but the approach to it was different.

As for the other items on your list, I don’t mind attempting some responses. But perhaps we should move the conversation to one of the threads in the Batwoman forum…

 

[Deck Rickard]

Heresy! Any Superman actor that naturally has the character’s hairstyle will have it parted the wrong way or slick it all back.

You know the rules.

Seriously. You could fill up an Olympic sized swimming pool with the amount of Dep hair gel they’ve used on Superman actors.

 

[Astro13Zombie]

No one can deny that Brandon as Superman KC is perfect, but I think Tyler has not yet said everything, a redesign and it would also look spectacular!
View attachment 30071

Oh my god

 

[Boom]

No one can deny that Brandon as Superman KC is perfect, but I think Tyler has not yet said everything, a redesign and it would also look spectacular!
View attachment 30071

Fire.

 

[SupermanFan]

From Kryptonsite

Is “Superman & Lois” Casting Jon Kent & Damian Wayne?

Once Crisis on Infinite Earths has passed we will surely start hearing more about Superman & Lois, the potential new CW television series starring Tyler Hoechlin and Elizabeth Tulloch in their roles as Superman (Clark Kent) and Lois Lane.

The website “Geeks WorldWide” has apparently gotten a hold of two casting breakdowns for Superman & Lois, and while at least one of those implies a major figure from current comics lore, the second could possibly be descended from a Bat. Obviously, take this with a grain of salt as it is not yet officially confirmed by the studio, but do keep in mind that The GWW is much more reliable than sites like “We Got This Covered.”

With that said…

According to the GWW report, Superman & Lois is casting “Matthew” who is described as “a 14-year old caucasian boy, who is well on his way to becoming a physical specimen. Matthew is clean cut, modest and kind-hearted, with an aw-shucks attitude that somehow doesn’t seem dated. He is also a three-sport athlete who’s already garnering attention from college and pro-scouts.”

This is clearly Jon Kent, and if that is indeed the case, this could very much be the Smallville reboot we’ve all known deep down we wanted — the son becomes the father, and the father, the son, and all that. We know from preview photos that Jon Kent is born in Crisis on Infinite Earths… a little aging up isn’t going to hurt anyone.

The GWW is also pointing out a role named “Ethan” who is also 14 and Caucasian, described as having “a young Leonardo DiCaprio quality and an inherent darkness to him. Ethan is wildly intelligent, but his mercurial temperament and social anxiety limits his interactions with people. Consequently, he spends most of his free time playing video games.”

This is a role that they suggest may be Damian Wayne, son of Bruce Wayne a.k.a. Batman, and the current Robin of comic books.

Injecting opinion here, but we can see two possibilities where “Ethan” is not Damian after all.

For one, could this outsider possibly be the character that was known for a short time as “Chris Kent” in the pre-Flashpoint comic books? Also known as Lor-Zod, he is the son of General Zod and Ursa, or at least he was in the comics. Giving Jon an adopted “brother” who is actually his cousin and also has all of the powers that he does would make for fascinating storytelling.

Another possibility, though perhaps more predictable for “Ethan” – What if that is the son of Lex Luthor, which would really give this a Smallville vibe?

In any event, we’ll surely know more as details of Superman & Lois start coming out. The series is in development for the 2020-2021 TV season on The CW. And again, credit to The GWW for the scoop, especially if it pans out.

 

[Fran-el]

From Kryptonsite

Very good but the series is called Superman and Lois who do not forget that, I want to see Superman do Superman things and face villains.

 

[SupermanFan]

Very good but the series is called Superman and Lois who do not forget that, I want to see Superman do Superman things and face villains.

He will they have to cast the main players first though.

 

[BrollySupersj]

March

Been a long time since I had been in Superman mode. Like, a ****ing long time. But I am getting kinda hyped on this. I hope it does well.

 

[Rorschach2012]

I think Hoechlin is the best modern Superman

Can’t wait for this

 

[famicommander]

Hoechlin is the best Superman period.

Reeve Superman is good for one movie, then he becomes a mind wiping rapist.

 

[SupermanFan]

That is the worst misguided opinion on Reeve Superman i have ever read.

Superman Returns takes the concept that Lois & Superman we’re together before he left. They don't literally take that he wiped her mind from Superman II. It’s all made clear when Lex says to Lois “you we’re more than friends?!”. Ridiculously or not that’s a prime example of Singers vague history.

And let’s say it doesn’t literally take the end of 2 he still isn’t a rapist because the sex wasn’t consensual.

Ironically enough In Supergirl 2x1 The Adventures of Supergirl, they also sort of use the events of Superman the Movie is vague history. They just do a much better job at making it feel like an Easter egg.

 

[famicommander]

That is the worst misguided opinion on Reeve Superman i have ever read.

Superman Returns takes the concept that Lois & Superman we’re together before he left. They don't literally take that he wiped her mind from Superman II. It’s all made clear when Lex says to Lois “you we’re more than friends?!”. Ridiculously or not that’s a prime example of Singers vague history.

Ironically enough In Supergirl 2x1 The Adventures of Supergirl, they also sort of use the events of Superman the Movie is vague history. They just do a much better job at making it feel like an Easter egg.

If Lois wasn't mindwiped, why doesn't she know Clark is Superman?

 

[SupermanFan]

If Lois wasn't mindwiped, why doesn't she know Clark is Superman?

As I already said vague history, the film tells that Lois had a relationship with Superman. She clearly remembers that as per the exchange with Lex. The film doesn’t tell us that she ever knew the secret or that her mind was wiped. It sort of does what Batman Forever did to the Burton films & connects what it wants to. Flawed as that concept is.