Superman & Lois Superman & Lois Original Discussion Thread

[famicommander]

As I already said vague history, the film tells that Lois had a relationship with Superman. She clearly remembers that as per the exchange with Lex. The film doesn’t tell us that she ever knew the secret or that her mind was wiped. It sort of does what Batman Forever did to the Burton films & connects what it wants to. Flawed as that concept is.

It's still super messed up that Superman had a sexual relationship with Lois Lane without telling her that he's her friend and coworker that sits around creepily watching her all day every day.

EDIT:
It reminds me of that scene in Revenge of the Nerds where the protagonist puts on the antagonist's Halloween costume, rapes the antagonist's girlfriend, and nobody says anything about it.

 

[SupermanFan]

It's still super messed up that Superman had a sexual relationship with Lois Lane without telling her that he's her friend and coworker that sits around creepily watching her all day every day.

Well it just mounts the list of problems that Singer created with his entire approach to the film. Doesn’t make him a mind altering rapist though lol

 

[famicommander]

Well it just mounts the list of problems that Singer created with his entire approach to the film. Doesn’t make him a mind altering rapist though lol

It's pretty rapey to create an entirely different identity and use it to secretly have sex with someone you know.

The mind wiping part is if you consider Superman II, as we were talking about Reeve Superman on the whole.

 

[SupermanFan]

It's pretty rapey to create an entirely different identity and use it to secretly have sex with someone you know.

The mind wiping part is if you consider Superman II, as we were talking about Reeve Superman on the whole.

Superman's Secret identity has been around for decades,

No it’s still not rape even if you consider II as it was consensual sex.

 

[famicommander]

Superman's Secret identity has been around for decades,

No it’s still not rape even if you consider II as it was consensual sex.

You really don't see it as creepy and wrong to be friends and coworkers with someone, watch and talk to them all day every day, and then also have a secret sexual relationship with her under the identity of someone she doesn't know is you?

It's pretty much exactly like the Revenge of the Nerds Halloween costume rape.

I can't recall any other continuity where Superman and Lois have a sexual relationship without Lois knowing Superman is Clark.

 

[SupermanFan]

You really don't see it as creepy and wrong to be friends and coworkers with someone, watch and talk to them all day every day, and then also have a secret sexual relationship with her under the identity of someone she doesn't know is you?

It's pretty much exactly like the Revenge of the Nerds Halloween costume rape.

I can't recall any other continuity where Superman and Lois have a sexual relationship without Lois knowing Superman is Clark.

No I don’t take it that seriously it’s just a movie. I think I you just hate it that much you’re looking for anything’s to throw at it.

Superman Doomsday she’s with Superman & he hasn’t told her he’s Clark, same as All Star Superman. What about when she was with Clark in the death of Superman animated film and she didn’t know he was Superman.

There’s also the comics with Byrnes run when she didn’t know Clark was Superman & ended up in a relationship with him before knowing. So it’s very common in Superman lore. The secret identity is part of it and has been for decades as I said.

 

[famicommander]

No I don’t take it that seriously it’s just a movie. I think I you just hate it that much you’re looking for anything’s to throw at it.

Superman Doomsday she’s with Superman & he hasn’t told her he’s Clark, same as All Star Superman. What about when she was with Clark in the death of Superman animated film and she didn’t know he was Superman.

There’s also the comics with Byrnes run when she didn’t know Clark was Superman & ended up in a relationship with him before knowing. So it’s very common in Superman lore. The secret identity is part of it and has been for decades as I said.

Being in a relationship with Clark and not knowing he's Superman is WAY different than being in a relationship with Superman and not knowing he's Clark.

This is supposed to be Superman we're talking about. Superman would never deceive a friend into sleeping with him. And that's what it would be if Superman slept with Lois without telling her he was Clark.

 

[BrollySupersj]

I will admit I'm a little iffy on the idea of making Lois and Clark parents, don't watch any of the CW shows but I did read Lois is pregnant?

I mean know it's in the comics and brings a new aspect to the characters, but eh...I was hoping when I first read the article it would be about Superman before Supergirl arrived, prequel and such. Well either way I'll be keeping a close eye on it.

And to celebrate, here have a MAFEX Hush Superman:

 

[SupermanFan]

Being in a relationship with Clark and not knowing he's Superman is WAY different than being in a relationship with Superman and not knowing he's Clark.

This is supposed to be Superman we're talking about. Superman would never deceive a friend into sleeping with him. And that's what it would be if Superman slept with Lois without telling her he was Clark.

It really isn’t any different, it’s still a lie a lie. You’re reaching now to try & justify your OTT criticisms.

 

[famicommander]

It really isn’t any different, it’s still a lie a lie. You’re reaching now to try & justify your OTT criticisms.

Not at all. I think all of my criticisms are apt and the person named "super routh" is the one reaching.

Routh's Superman is a creep. That's what it comes down to. Even stalked Lois and spied on her in her home.

 

[flickchick85]

I will admit I'm a little iffy on the idea of making Lois and Clark parents, don't watch any of the CW shows but I did read Lois is pregnant?

They went to Argo to have baby, yes. And the baby's been born now. And now some casting sides have indicated they might be aging the kid up a bit, so it appears they're basically setting up a TV a of the Superman Rebirth comics, which are certainly an excellent inspiration to draw from.

 

[vantheman77]

If they're using Super Sons, I wonder if they're doing flash forwards with them like they're doing with Arrow in its last 2 seasons.

 

[flickchick85]

I certainly hope not.

 

[famicommander]

Yeah I don't like flash forwards at all. Seems more likely they'll just age the baby during the Crisis.

 

[flickchick85]

Well I dunno about DURING Crisis, since they apparently haven't cast the older kid yet.

 

[SupermanFan]

Not at all. I think all of my criticisms are apt and the person named "super routh" is the one reaching.

Routh's Superman is a creep. That's what it comes down to. Even stalked Lois and spied on her in her home.

Lol I’m named Super Routh because of Crisis. Superman Returns is alright it’s not the best and I even agreed on the stalking part been creepy. I just said he isn' a rapist & you then kept going down different avenues to reach to make your point valid. Seeing the way you dismissed someone’s replies to your criticisms earlier & the way you ignore facts when thrown at you about other things, I’ve come to the conclusion that you think your opinions are fact. You ignore actual facts in favours of your likes & dislikes. I’m happily just going to ignore you from now on.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

That is the worst misguided opinion on Reeve Superman i have ever read.

Agreed.

Movies have and always will be subject to generational shifts in attitudes toward certain issues, such as the ones mentioned above. Even stuff that's considered perfectly acceptable by today's standards will eventually come to be looked upon less favorably by tomorrow's boys and girls. Donner's Superman isn't unique in that regard. The film is no doubt a product of a time when things like subtext and thematic weight were far less important to most audiences, especially as regards to superhero fare. And for better or worse, there's an expectation that it be be viewed from that lens. Point being, whatever your qualms w/ the material--and I acknowledge that for some those might be substantial what with cultural perceptions no longer being what they were in the late 70s and 80s--context is nevertheless important.

 

[vantheman77]

We would like to see a Kent/ Lane/ Danvers/ El family dinner - Clark Kent, Lois Lane, Jon Kent, Kara Danvers, Alex Danvers, Eliza Danvers, Lucy Lane, General Sam Lane, and Allura Zor-El.

 

[Dr.]

It really isn’t any different, it’s still a lie...

Obviously, Superman and Lois have been an “item” for 80 years. Now in the early days, this only amounted to chaste flirting. Eventually, by the 60s/70s, the duo would graduate to… serious smooching. Yet in all that time of friendship and quasi-intimacy, the duplicity of the secret identity was maintained. And comic book readers just accepted this as a trope of the mythos (indeed, it’s a rather classic trope).

That said, the notion that a sexual relationship changes things - raises the duplicity to the level of moral outrage - is an interesting argument.

Now In SII and BvS, this wasn’t an issue; the “honesty came before sex” (as it were ). (Smallville too? I don’t recall the order of things.) But in SR, the secret identity is still secret - even years after Jason’s conception. Does this have ethical implications even though the sex was consensual? As for how all this is handled in modern comics, I dunno. Experts will have to weigh in.

 

[famicommander]

Obviously, Superman and Lois have been an “item” for 80 years. Now in the early days, this only amounted to chaste flirting. Eventually, by the 60s/70s, the duo would graduate to… serious smooching. Yet in all that time of friendship and quasi-intimacy, the duplicity of the secret identity was maintained. And comic book readers just accepted this as a trope of the mythos (indeed, it’s a rather classic trope).

That said, the notion that a sexual relationship changes things - raises the duplicity to the level of moral outrage - is an interesting argument.

Now In SII and BvS, this wasn’t an issue; the “honesty came before sex” (as it were ). (Smallville too? I don’t recall the order of things.) But in SR, the secret identity is still secret - even years after Jason’s conception. Does this have ethical implications even though the sex was consensual? As for how all this is handled in modern comics, I dunno. Experts will have to weigh in.

Consent must be informed.

Ask yourself:
-Would you be okay with a close friend and coworker that you see on a daily basis using a super powered alter ego to have sex with you in secret while manipulating you with a fake nice guy act?

-Would you be okay with an ex using super powers to find out your home address, follow you home, and secretly watch your family?

I think the information Clark is withholding is necessary for Lois to make a real choice. It's not consensual if the information she uses to make a choice has been selectively fed to her to make Clark look good instead of the massive creeper that he is.

 

[famicommander]

Lol I’m named Super Routh because of Crisis. Superman Returns is alright it’s not the best and I even agreed on the stalking part been creepy. I just said he isn' a rapist & you then kept going down different avenues to reach to make your point valid. Seeing the way you dismissed someone’s replies to your criticisms earlier & the way you ignore facts when thrown at you about other things, I’ve come to the conclusion that you think your opinions are fact. You ignore actual facts in favours of your likes & dislikes. I’m happily just going to ignore you from now on.

Okay.

You can ignore me all you want but that doesn't change the fact that it's no different from the Halloween costume rape scene in Revenge of the Nerds.

Super Rapist Returns.

 

[SupermanFan]

Okay.

You can ignore me all you want but that doesn't change the fact that it's no different from the Halloween costume rape scene in Revenge of the Nerds.

Super Rapist Returns.

Lol you keep telling yourself that.

You obviously have no idea what rape actually is. You’re embarrassing yourself.

 

[famicommander]

Lol you keep telling yourself that.

You obviously have no idea what rape actually is. You’re embarrassing yourself.

Rape is sex without consent.

Lois in this case was deceived into consenting by a creepy stalker.

 

[SupermanFan]

Rape is sex without consent.

Lois in this case was deceived into consenting by a creepy stalker.

You really are reaching, Lois consents to having sex with Superman who she has sec with.

In ROTN (forgive me cause I don’t recall the names of the characters) the lady thinks she’s having sex with her boyfriend but it’s an entirely different person that she doesn’t consent to sex with.

So once again you’re wrong.

 

[famicommander]

You really are reaching, Lois consents to having sex with Superman who she has sec with.

In ROTN (forgive me cause I don’t recall the names of the characters) the lady thinks she’s having sex with her boyfriend but it’s an entirely different person that she doesn’t consent to sex with.

So once again you’re wrong.

Lois knows Clark Kent and knows she doesn't want to have sex with him. If Lois wanted to be having sex with Clark, she would be. But she's not.

So Clark watches her and hangs out with her all day pretending to be her friend, then creates an entirely different persona (one who also stalks and spies on her) and has sex with her without telling her he's Clark.

I can't believe someone is defending a Superman who tricks his friend into having sex with him, gets her pregnant, leaves the planet without telling her, then comes back and stalks and spies on her.