Superman & Lois Superman & Lois Original Discussion Thread

[SupermanFan]

First off, I never claimed that was the only reason Tyler was liked so much. I was agreeing with someone else's take on it, and added another reason to what he said. What you think about that is immaterial to me, "To be frank". The only reason I bothered to respond to you was that, again, you took it upon yourself to try to explain to me what I meant by my own statement.

Also, if you actually want to move on from having this conversation, you can take your own advice about ignoring posts.

There you got the last word happy? Let’s move on

 

[The Batman]

I don't think I'm the one concerned with getting the last word.

I want Tyler’s Superman to go out in All-Star style even if it includes sitting on the clouds.

What's wrong with sitting on the clouds? That's one of the all time coolest Superman visuals.

 

[Silvermoth]

Yeah I think that would be cool too.

I wonder if they can do the bit where some train tracks get destroyed and superman uses his spine as a replacement? That would be cool to see too

 

[vantheman77]

I hope Superman & Lois will have their own writing team apart from Supergirl's. Though I would like to see both Sterling Gates and Jay Faeber writing for Superman & Lois.

 

[flickchick85]

With Todd Helbing as showrunner, I expect more from the Flash team to make the jump. I'll be surprised if Sterling Gates doesn't join the staff.

 

[Herolee10]

In hindsight, if you guys had to choose between getting this show (Superman and Lois) on the CW versus getting a show on HBO Max with Brandon Routh's KC Superman as the lead, which one would you guys go for?

 

[flickchick85]

I'd go for this one just because I don't think KC Superman has much long-term story potential to get invested in. His supporting cast is gone. Plus I like Hoechlin in the role more than Routh.

But I'd rather have THIS show on HBO Max, certainly.

 

[SupermanFan]

With Todd Helbing as showrunner, I expect more from the Flash team to make the jump. I'll be surprised if Sterling Gates doesn't join the staff.

Me too, one or my biggest issue a with Supergirl is the writing thwy don’t know how to deal with subtlety and they damn sure don’t understand how relationships worl.

In hindsight, if you guys had to choose between getting this show (Superman and Lois) on the CW versus getting a show on HBO Max with Brandon Routh's KC Superman as the lead, which one would you guys go for?

Give me both please haha tbh I think I’d have gone for Tyler’s as I believe we’ll get more from that show with the family aspect. I’m not sure where you’d take Brandon Routh’s Superman. Tbh I think he’s gonna die anyway.

I'd go for this one just because I don't think KC Superman has much long-term story potential to get invested in. His supporting cast is gone. Plus I like Hoechlin in the role more than Routh.

But I'd rather have THIS show on HBO Max, certainly.

If it did end up on HBO Max I’m not sure how different it would really be. For me any DC show on HBO Max should be a fresh start.

 

[Dr.]

In hindsight, if you guys had to choose between getting this show (Superman and Lois) on the CW versus getting a show on HBO Max with Brandon Routh's KC Superman as the lead, which one would you guys go for?

I’m not a comic book reader. In my time on forums, however, I’ve followed the recommendation of experts on certain “must read” issues/series. And Kingdom Come was one of them. I guess it was okay (I only read it once). But one thing I found particularly striking: this was down the rabbit hole/drink the Kool-Aid material. KC had a ridiculously large ensemble of superheroes and villains - some famous, but many rather obscure. And there wasn’t much sympathy for the casual fan who wasn’t fully up to speed on these characters (their backstories, etc.) or who was expecting to be gently eased into this surreal, “elseworld-y” scenario. KC, in my opinion, was for advanced/hardcore comic book types.

So would this translate to a “mainstream” HBO-style miniseries? Maybe... Perhaps a smaller, more pared down version would work (which might have to happen anyway if certain characters - like WW, Batman and Shazam - are embargoed). But if not KC (specifically), it would be interesting to see an “event”/limited DC series on a HBO budget.

 

[WhoMani]

Honestly, I’d be quite happy if they used the Brainiac (actor) from Krypton. That version was solid, though the plot might need a bit of tweaking. It’s not as if they have to link the shows together.

Brainiac was easily the best thing from Krypton and the design of the character on that show was absolutely fantastic. I wouldn't mind if they used that actor again as his performance in the role was flawless.

With Zod been dead unless it’s a Resurrection or flashbacks I think he’s highly unlikely to appear.

Good, keep Zod dead and away from this show.

 

[Prison Mike]

In hindsight, if you guys had to choose between getting this show (Superman and Lois) on the CW versus getting a show on HBO Max with Brandon Routh's KC Superman as the lead, which one would you guys go for?

KC Superman on HBOMAX. No contest

 

[SupermanFan]

Brainiac was easily the best thing from Krypton and the design of the character on that show was absolutely fantastic. I wouldn't mind if they used that actor again as his performance in the role was flawless.


Good, keep Zod dead and away from this show.

I’d be cool with him one day but for now no Zod is the best option.

 

[Silvermoth]

Haha definitely no zod for a bit. But then again they’ve already done brainiac in supergirl.

they should have a bit when zod comes in and says something like “are you going to kill me” and superman is all like “god no who would want to see that “

 

[Dark Raven]

If Zod shows up, Superman can say "would you care to step outside?" then once he's out there Superman can shut the door on him:

 

[SupermanFan]

Haha definitely no zod for a bit. But then again they’ve already done brainiac in supergirl.

they should have a bit when zod comes in and says something like “are you going to kill me” and superman is all like “god no who would want to see that “

They did Brainiac 8 and Brainiac 5 on Supergirl but they’ve never done the one true evil Brainiac.

Superman’s already killed Zod it got mentioned in an episode of Supergirl.

 

[vantheman77]

I'd choose the show with Earth-38 Superman and Lois Lane. They're likely promoting the current comics with the Super-Family.

As for KC Superman with Brandon Routh, that would depend on him surviving Crisis or not. I wouldn't be surprised that they would make movies for KC Superman for HBO Max or DC Universe.

 

[famicommander]

Political Animals wasn’t unscripted, Queen Sugar, another Warner Horizon show, has a budget of over $3.5mil per ep, and Goyer said they spent more on Krypton than they wanted, which means potentially more than Warner Horizon had expected to when they signed on with them. And hey, they were cancelled - shocker there. The evidence is on the screen, man. The numbers we’re talking about are so comparable anyway, I don’t know why you’re finding it so hard to believe. Warner Horizon is certainly capable of spending the kind of money we’re talking about.

And btw, the company’s overall investment would still be MUCH cheaper than the Flash anyway, due to episode counts. So if Krypton cost, say, $35-40 mil per season, then the cost of 2 seasons of Krypton would be just over that of ONE season of The Flash. Yet the per-episode budgets of Krypton would still be higher.

Because it was on SyFy. Nothing that has ever been on SyFy has been close to Flash expensive, and if they were spending that sort of money on it they would have targeted a platform like AMC, TNT, CW, HBO, etc instead.

You mentioned Battlestar, but that was funded more than 50% Sky UK, who was airing the episodes first. Co-production.

There is no logical reason Warner Bros would expect a show more expensive than Flash to be successful on a network as small as SyFy. And there is no reason SyFy would expect a show like Krypton to put up numbers necessary to sustain a show that expensive.

If Krypton were really that expensive, they would never have renewed it in the first place. It pulled a 0.1 with half a million viewers for the season 1 finale, roughly 25% of the premiere.

Sometimes budget isn't the only reason a show looks better than the other. The early seasons of Agents of SHIELD are very high budget and they look like mutilated monkey ass.

 

[flickchick85]

Again, a $30-40mil investment seems on par with Warner Horizon’s other budgets so I’m not seeing your point. That is still half the cost of The Flash, the episode count being the thing that makes it look more expensive as they still get more per ep.

And you know live ratings aren’t the only factor that gets shows renewed anymore. DC was using that show to sell their new DC Universe app, so that could’ve factored into getting it another season, too.

 

[famicommander]

Again, a $30-40mil investment seems on par with Warner Horizon’s other budgets so I’m not seeing your point. That is still half the cost of The Flash, the episode count being the thing that makes it look more expensive as they still get more per ep.

And you know live ratings aren’t the only factor that gets shows renewed anymore. DC was using that show to sell their new DC Universe app, so that could’ve factored into getting it another season, too.

If the live numbers were that bad there's no reason to expect nonlinear numbers to be any better, which is why none of the other WB platforms considered picking it up when it was cancelled.

You found a single miniseries that had a similar per episode budget, but that aired on USA and there was never any expectation of a renewal.

There's no monetary reason why they would expect a show they're spending 40 million dollars to produce 10 episodes of to be sustainable if they're spending 70+ million dollars on a 23 episode season of a much more successful show on a much bigger network.

Sorry, but there's just zero logical reason why they'd put a show that expensive on SyFy. And even less of a reason why they'd renew it after it dropped to a 0.1 10 episodes in.

 

[flickchick85]

If the live numbers were that bad there's no reason to expect nonlinear numbers to be any better, which is why none of the other WB platforms considered picking it up when it was cancelled.

You found a single miniseries that had a similar per episode budget, but that aired on USA and there was never any expectation of a renewal.

There's no monetary reason why they would expect a show they're spending 40 million dollars to produce 10 episodes of to be sustainable if they're spending 70+ million dollars on a 23 episode season of a much more successful show on a much bigger network.

Sorry, but there's just zero logical reason why they'd put a show that expensive on SyFy. And even less of a reason why they'd renew it after it dropped to a 0.1 10 episodes in.

Queen Sugar is not a miniseries, its ratings fluctuate between high .1's and .2's, and that has a seasonal budget is $45.5mil. Sorry, but it seems like you just don't want to believe what's right in front of you. It looks more expensive, it's production company spends the amounts we're talking about, and Goyer has talked about how expensive it is (and $1 mil per ep for visual fx alone is a big clue). Add to that the added incentive of trying to get subs for the DCU app, and it seems perfectly obvious to me why they'd renew it with that kind of (not actually high) budget. The logic is there, you're just ignoring it.

 

[famicommander]

Queen Sugar is not a miniseries, its ratings fluctuate between high .1's and .2's, and that has a seasonal budget is $45.5mil. Sorry, but it seems like you just don't want to believe what's right in front of you. It looks more expensive, it's production company spends the amounts we're talking about, and Goyer has talked about how expensive it is (and $1 mil per ep for visual fx is a big clue). Add to that the added incentive of trying to get subs for the DCU app, and it seems perfectly obvious to me why they'd renew it with that kind of budget. The logic is there, you're just ignoring it.

If nobody was watching it they wouldn't think it would generate any subscriptions.

I refuse to believe SyFy spent more money on Krypton than any other show they ever had, then got those ratings, then chose to renew it.

Because WB had no say in whether SyFy renewed it. SyFy is an NBC network, and SyFy doesn't get any money if Krypton does well on DCU or Hulu or syndication or DVD or whatever.

SyFy's only decision with regard to renewal is whether or not enough people were watching it to justify the amount they were spending on it.

 

[flickchick85]

If nobody was watching it they wouldn't think it would generate any subscriptions.

I refuse to believe SyFy spent more money on Krypton than any other show they ever had, then got those ratings, then chose to renew it.

Because WB had no say in whether SyFy renewed it. SyFy is an NBC network, and SyFy doesn't get any money if Krypton does well on DCU or Hulu or syndication or DVD or whatever.

SyFy's only decision with regard to renewal is whether or not enough people were watching it to justify the amount they were spending on it.

Refuse to believe it all you want, it's clear we're not gonna convince each other.

 

[famicommander]

Refuse to believe it all you want, it's clear we're not gonna convince each other.

As long as you're clear on how exactly TV works.

Because, as I said, DCU/Hulu/syndication/media sales have absolutely nothing to do with SyFy's decision making process on whether to renew shows that they don't own.

WB, Sony, Fox, Disney, and CBS/Viacom shows on SyFy only generate SyFy money via viewership (from ad revenue and from carriage fees from Comcast/DirecTV/Dish/etc). SyFy and NBC Universal only get the money from streaming, syndication, and sales for shows that are produced by their own studios.

So SyFy's decision making process on Krypton had nothing to do with DC Universe. That's factual, whether or not we can come to an agreement about its budget relative to other DC shows.

 

[flickchick85]

I know how TV works, thanks. I've studied the business of television, directly from people who actually ran networks and production companies. Don't need a lesson. And my logic is sound. The numbers add up, you just don't like them. And WB can lean on these situations when they want to.

 

[famicommander]

I know how TV works, thanks. I've studied the business of television. Don't need a lesson. And my logic is sound.

This, specifically, is not sound:

"Add to that the added incentive of trying to get subs for the DCU app, and it seems perfectly obvious to me why they'd renew it with that kind of budget."

The "they" that renewed it are a different "they" than want DCU subs.