Superman Returns Superman Returns Appreciation Thread

[Gothamsknight]

This movie is fascinating in weird ways with a lot not being good but also with some bright spots. Routh was fantastic, the plane sequence was great and the score was awesome, but at the same time, the idea of continuing the Reeves continuity so many years later made no sense to me especially when you take into account the quality drop after Superman II. The result is a weird movie with only a few redeeming qualities. It's definitely not the worst Superman film though.

 

[Pittman4Two]

Just thinking back now, I was soaking up every piece of hype in anticipation of this. I made my own CD of the soundtrack off Napster and even saved all the trailers.

The problem was that everyone compared this to the Donner films and Routh to Reeve. I’m as guilty as everyone else. I wanted this to be the best Superman yet especially with the technology available.

it just showed us all one thing, you can’t try to compete with the original.

 

[STARMAN]

I often said I enjoyed the three hour behind the scenes making of Requiem of Krypton more than the movie itself. It takes you from the very beginning including the original pitch they delivered to WB through pre-production, casting, screen tests and filming.

It's always a mistake in my mind to try to recreate something. Which is one of problems. It comes off as a forced and not organic and usually not as enjoyable.

 

[Doc Bat Spider]

This is interesting....

 

[SupermanFan]

I think that guy is telling fibs, the Brainiac part looks like it’s from the game. Pretty sure the Routh with the open shirt is from the comic and the Doomsday art I’m pretty sure is from Superman Lives.

 

[Captain Tired]

IIRC, didn't Singer want Jude Law to star as Zod in a follow-up to Returns?

 

[SupermanFan]

IIRC, didn't Singer want Jude Law to star as Zod in a follow-up to Returns?

The original rumour was that he wanted Law for Zod in Returns but he turned it down so Singer abandoned the idea of using Zod in Returns. This may be mentioned in Superman vs Hollywood actually. I’ll dig it out and have a read later.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Law would have been a good Zod actually. And I believe he was going to kill the kid in the proposed sequel.

 

[STARMAN]

The original rumour was that he wanted Law for Zod in Returns but he turned it down so Singer abandoned the idea of using Zod in Returns. This may be mentioned in Superman vs Hollywood actually. I’ll dig it out and have a read later.

It is mentioned in Superman vs Hollywood page 286. Although I've never seen it actually discussed by any of the individuals on video. Law has mentioned screen testing for Superman for Brett Ratner.

As for the sequel, Singer kept mentioning he would go the Wrath of Khan route. He mentioned that several times in the immediate aftermath to the reception of SR. Years later, after MOS debuted, they asked him about his intensions and he mentioned various ideas being thrown out there, including Darkseid. The Jude Law as Zod rumor reappeared in August of 2006 by an unreliable source which was ironically discussed negatively on this forum as another Donner rehash.

 

[SupermanFan]

It is mentioned in Superman vs Hollywood page 286. Although I've never seen it actually discussed by any of the individuals on video. Law has mentioned screen testing for Superman for Brett Ratner.

As for the sequel, Singer kept mentioning he would go the Wrath of Khan route. He mentioned that several times in the immediate aftermath to the reception of SR. Years later, after MOS debuted, they asked him about his intensions and he mentioned various ideas being thrown out there, including Darkseid. The Jude Law as Zod rumor reappeared in August of 2006 by an unreliable source which was ironically discussed negatively on this forum as another Donner rehash.

Would be good if someone asked Jude Law about it see if he can verify if there was ever any contact.

 

[STARMAN]

I'm a little skeptical. Perhaps the idea of Zod was thrown around when discussing ideas for the treatment in July 2004 and quickly discarded. I doubt he ever made it into the script. I've read some early versions of the script and he's not there. There's also a first draft of the script where Lex builds a mini FOS with the crystal only to have Clark melt it. That was quickly changed to the trainset sequence. Nothing in the early versions leads to Zod. So at most it was a general idea and not a firm storyline for him.

As for sequel storylines, I get the sense nothing was finally determined. Both Singer and the screenwriters have said various things. As time goes on their ideas have seemingly gotten bigger. This happens sometimes. When you're off a project you start embellishing your vision and making it bigger and bigger. There's no doubt there would have been a physical foe and more action but perhaps not at the large scale they spoke of. There are always budgetary constraints.

A few of the specific storylines that have popped up seemed to be fan fiction that always spreads across the internet and are probably untrue.

 

[Herofan]

I think something interesting is that the film doesn't really have much of a second act, the first act is just re-introducing characters & relationships and setting things up and then very quickly it goes straight to Lex's plot fully happening, I think that's also the case with Singer's first X-Men (going from Wolverine getting to and learning about the mansion, then very little before it's the third act of Rogue getting kidnapped and having to be rescued, unless her getting kidnapped is considered the very short second act) and some '90s kids movies (Casper, Space Jam) but it's worst with SR in part from its so much longer length.

I read Louise Simonson's junior novelization of the film and it's interesting that she put just two big changes, one that, IIRC, for a lot of the 5 years of Superman missing he was in suspended animation or otherwise unconscious, he didn't know that he would be in that state for so long, and two it avoids that Jason had super-powers and was Superman's kid, that apparently was too much for her.

 

[STARMAN]

I never read the junior novel. But I can understand the reasoning behind Simonson's changes. The first one excuses Superman being gone for 5 years and takes the blame off of him. The second change is even bigger and negates the most controversial aspect of the film.

The first act pretty much writes itself because as you say it reintroduces everything and there is not much momentum or a sense or urgency. The film feels like it goes through the paces, never reaching the height of the airplane sequence. The script is the biggest culprit. I find it weak throughout. Even early drafts waste time on such mundane things as Martha playing scrabble with Ben. They also struggle giving much for Superman to say, at times resorting to regurgitating old dialogue. That's one of the worst things you can do as it is a direct reminder of Reeve and how his performance is the original and this is a copycat.

 

[AverageMan]

I've learned to accept this film for what it is over the years - a fair attempt at a Superman movie that could have been much, much better.
Mis casting aside, my biggest gripes are the overall connection to the Donner films, not just in story but right down to the little things - Kitty answering 'Get Out' to Lex trying to homage Miss Teschmacher but the delivery is just sooo flat.
And the pointless use of CG Superman - in the flying montage at the end. It's really annoyingly obvious that its not BR and takes me out of the scene everytime!
Having said that, the stand out moments that everybody has mentioned - Routh himself, the plane rescue, the score still hold up today.

 

[SupermanFan]

I'm a little skeptical. Perhaps the idea of Zod was thrown around when discussing ideas for the treatment in July 2004 and quickly discarded. I doubt he ever made it into the script. I've read some early versions of the script and he's not there. There's also a first draft of the script where Lex builds a mini FOS with the crystal only to have Clark melt it. That was quickly changed to the trainset sequence. Nothing in the early versions leads to Zod. So at most it was a general idea and not a firm storyline for him.

As for sequel storylines, I get the sense nothing was finally determined. Both Singer and the screenwriters have said various things. As time goes on their ideas have seemingly gotten bigger. This happens sometimes. When you're off a project you start embellishing your vision and making it bigger and bigger. There's no doubt there would have been a physical foe and more action but perhaps not at the large scale they spoke of. There are always budgetary constraints.

A few of the specific storylines that have popped up seemed to be fan fiction that always spreads across the internet and are probably untrue.

I’m pretty sure what I read said when Law turned him down he decided against putting Zod in the script. Honestly I could see something like that been true.

The writers last ditch attempt at stating on the sequel they made to WB was Darkseid apparently. Other than Singers pitch with the weird version of Brainiac who possessed Jason I don’t know if there were any other laid out pitches beyond them saying to WB what if we were to do... insert villain.