Comics Superman VS Hulk in WWH

[Deadpool876]

Superman would win because of his Super Speed which Hulk lacks. The problem with this is many writers overlook this power, most likely on purpose, because if Supes used his speed regularly he would beat pretty much everyone, and that would be just boring.

Damn right!

 

[Redwolf]

Although I think Supes will win too, I chuckled at this 'coz I don't remember the boyscout used his super speed when he fought super-strong beings. Why is that? I can't recall him going super-fast punching or super-fast-dodging from strikes from a big fight with a super-strong villain. Maybe he's always holding back but that would be stupid, for not using super-speed. Maybe the writers want the fight to be dramatic or they want the villain to have a fighting chance.

I also don't recall Supes used super-speed in his epic battle against Doomsday. Maybe he did, someone refresh my memory.

Anyway, Supes vs. Hulk will be a damn great fight and I think in the end Supes will prevail!

The entire battle with Doomsday back in the early 90's happened at superspeed. In the Doomsday Rex storyline Superman became intangable by vibrating his molecules so fast Doomsdays fist when through Superman not even harming Supes.

Also Read the Our Worlds at War trade paperbacks, Superman battles the Imperiex probes at superspeed punching, dodging etc. There are plenty of battles with Superman using his super speed.

 

[Redwolf]

Okay once and for all, Hulk even WWH cannot defeat Superman. Lets see what the Hulk is up against in battle with Superman....

Superman's speed..able to move at 99% the speed of light within earth's atmosphere. He's been shown faster in outer space.

Superman's heat vision is as hot as the core of a star!!

Superman's strength...under normal power levels he can push the moon. The greatest strength/lifting feat by Hulk was bracing part of a large mountain. What the Hulk braces was 150 tons of mass. The moon is far heavier than part of a large mountain.

Superman's strength is so powerful that..

(Superman and Kal-L hit each other once and destroyed Earth 2) or "shattering the boundaries of space and time" with strength alone (again, against Kal-L) -- hitting so hard that Elseworld versions of himself appear (Superman IC TPB).

Imperiex, at the conclusion of the Our Worlds at War story arc, had absorbed suffcient power to destroy the universe (and chain react the destruction of the multiverse). Imperiex, as Our Worlds at War Secret Files and Origins showed, was God's cosmic agent of universal creation and destruction -- Imperiex was the Big Bang, essentially.

(OT: Brainiac had this power trapped inside himself; Imperiex chose the sundipped Superman to break Imperiex out of Brainiac's cell. Later, Superman outmuscled the Imperiex-powered B-13. That should tell you just how powerful sundipped Superman was in that arc -- Superman was powerful enough to break a cell that a Big Bang level force could not; Superman was powerful enough to outmuscle B-13/Imperiex's "full counter thrusters!")

Imperiex's Probes were not as powerful as Imperiex himself. Nevertheless, an entire army of "solar converted" Daxamites could not put a single dent into a Probe. Only Superman, Doomsday and Zod managed to destroy Probes with their bare hands -- the rest had to use magical artifacts (Wonder Woman's shield and lasso, the Trident of Poseidon) or advanced tech (B-13 based nuclear tanks).

Initially, Superman needed intensive training and a power boost to so much as hang with a Probe in a fight -- a Probe who very casually threw Mongul across the galaxy.

Superman's invunerability is up there aswell.

Recent Superman in May's Action Comics, flies from Vega to Earth in seconds, or light years from a spaceship to the inside of a Sun Eater. He wades through Earth's assembled alien forces (J'onn, Powergirl, Kilowog, etc) in a matter of panels. One shots Despero with heat vision. And has his power depleted and is thrown through Earth and into its core and survives, as well as survives a 700 light year anti-matter explosion when power depleted.

What is World War Hulk going to do against recent Superman, when recent Superman is depicted as that powerful? In my opinion, nothing but lose.

On average, Superman simply operates on a much higher scale than Marvel characters, including Hulk -- especially recently.

Also, Superman's greatest asset over the Hulk, super intelligence. After Superman gets his powers back from being powerless for that one year after the Infinite Crisis, his intelligence has increased. Everything in his brain has been accelerated and amped up.

The greatest feat Hulk has done is destroying an asteroid twice the size of earth.

As a high end feat, this is very impressive for the Hulk. However, it does not compare to Superman's high end feats, such as:

1) Atomizing Earth 2 as the collateral damage of hitting, and being hit by, Kal-L; that is, the planet received no hit, but was simply destroyed as a collateral effect of a single punch on the two combatants' bodies. (Superman Infinite Crisis TPB)

2) Holding a black hole in one hand; then producing sufficient static electricity (via rubbing his hands) for Green Lantern to corral into a temporary containment force; then actually throwing the black hole into another black hole. (JLA 81 or 82)

(Incidentally black holes are the collapsed remains of super-massive stars that have, at minimum, the mass of at least 30 of our Sun, according to modern science.)

3) "Shattering the boundaries of space and time" by way of his fight against Kal-L; that is, hitting each other so hard that: 1) Superman and Kal-L actually switch into the past, present and future of each other's lives; 2) Elseworld versions of themselves actually manifested in time and space. (Superman Infinite Crisis TPB)

4) Superman reverses the vibratory pattern of an entire alternate Earth; does so from high orbit; that is, not even touching the planet. (Adventures of Superman Cannibal Planet issue)

5) Superman and Kal-L, who came up equal in their fight, manhandle Superboy Prime across galaxies and force him through Krypton's Sun. Superboy Prime, it was said and shown, was strong enough to move planets as easily as someone moves "chess pieces." (Infinite Crisis)

Superman splitting "a small Saturnian moon" in Lex 2000; or nearly knocking the Moon out of orbit merely by pounding on it (as one would pound on a table) while sick from Kryptonite poisoning (Til Death Do Us Part TPB).

When Superman and Flash last raced, Flash explained that, were Superman stopped dead in his tracks, it would destroy everything between the Flash's city and Moscow. That's a far larger tract of land than the Rockies -- it's an immense chunk of the planet.

Superman broke through a dome powerful enough to contain a nuclear blast with a stray backhand when he fought the Eradicator.

Superman also punched Bizarro through the planet, from Metropolis to China, in one hit.

 

[Metropolis_Man]

It'd be a helluva battle. I think Supes would come out on top though. Unless they blasted Hulk full of kyrptonite instead of gamma radiation, then Superman would be nothing but pulp.

 

[David Rice]

Okay once and for all, Hulk even WWH cannot defeat Superman. Lets see what the Hulk is up against in battle with Superman....

Superman's speed..able to move at 99% the speed of light within earth's atmosphere. He's been shown faster in outer space.

Superman's heat vision is as hot as the core of a star!!

Superman's strength...under normal power levels he can push the moon. The greatest strength/lifting feat by Hulk was bracing part of a large mountain. What the Hulk braces was 150 tons of mass. The moon is far heavier than part of a large mountain.

Superman's strength is so powerful that..

(Superman and Kal-L hit each other once and destroyed Earth 2) or "shattering the boundaries of space and time" with strength alone (again, against Kal-L) -- hitting so hard that Elseworld versions of himself appear (Superman IC TPB).

Imperiex, at the conclusion of the Our Worlds at War story arc, had absorbed suffcient power to destroy the universe (and chain react the destruction of the multiverse). Imperiex, as Our Worlds at War Secret Files and Origins showed, was God's cosmic agent of universal creation and destruction -- Imperiex was the Big Bang, essentially.

(OT: Brainiac had this power trapped inside himself; Imperiex chose the sundipped Superman to break Imperiex out of Brainiac's cell. Later, Superman outmuscled the Imperiex-powered B-13. That should tell you just how powerful sundipped Superman was in that arc -- Superman was powerful enough to break a cell that a Big Bang level force could not; Superman was powerful enough to outmuscle B-13/Imperiex's "full counter thrusters!")

Imperiex's Probes were not as powerful as Imperiex himself. Nevertheless, an entire army of "solar converted" Daxamites could not put a single dent into a Probe. Only Superman, Doomsday and Zod managed to destroy Probes with their bare hands -- the rest had to use magical artifacts (Wonder Woman's shield and lasso, the Trident of Poseidon) or advanced tech (B-13 based nuclear tanks).

Initially, Superman needed intensive training and a power boost to so much as hang with a Probe in a fight -- a Probe who very casually threw Mongul across the galaxy.

Superman's invunerability is up there aswell.

Recent Superman in May's Action Comics, flies from Vega to Earth in seconds, or light years from a spaceship to the inside of a Sun Eater. He wades through Earth's assembled alien forces (J'onn, Powergirl, Kilowog, etc) in a matter of panels. One shots Despero with heat vision. And has his power depleted and is thrown through Earth and into its core and survives, as well as survives a 700 light year anti-matter explosion when power depleted.

What is World War Hulk going to do against recent Superman, when recent Superman is depicted as that powerful? In my opinion, nothing but lose.

On average, Superman simply operates on a much higher scale than Marvel characters, including Hulk -- especially recently.

Also, Superman's greatest asset over the Hulk, super intelligence. After Superman gets his powers back from being powerless for that one year after the Infinite Crisis, his intelligence has increased. Everything in his brain has been accelerated and amped up.

The greatest feat Hulk has done is destroying an asteroid twice the size of earth.

As a high end feat, this is very impressive for the Hulk. However, it does not compare to Superman's high end feats, such as:

1) Atomizing Earth 2 as the collateral damage of hitting, and being hit by, Kal-L; that is, the planet received no hit, but was simply destroyed as a collateral effect of a single punch on the two combatants' bodies. (Superman Infinite Crisis TPB)

2) Holding a black hole in one hand; then producing sufficient static electricity (via rubbing his hands) for Green Lantern to corral into a temporary containment force; then actually throwing the black hole into another black hole. (JLA 81 or 82)

(Incidentally black holes are the collapsed remains of super-massive stars that have, at minimum, the mass of at least 30 of our Sun, according to modern science.)

3) "Shattering the boundaries of space and time" by way of his fight against Kal-L; that is, hitting each other so hard that: 1) Superman and Kal-L actually switch into the past, present and future of each other's lives; 2) Elseworld versions of themselves actually manifested in time and space. (Superman Infinite Crisis TPB)

4) Superman reverses the vibratory pattern of an entire alternate Earth; does so from high orbit; that is, not even touching the planet. (Adventures of Superman Cannibal Planet issue)

5) Superman and Kal-L, who came up equal in their fight, manhandle Superboy Prime across galaxies and force him through Krypton's Sun. Superboy Prime, it was said and shown, was strong enough to move planets as easily as someone moves "chess pieces." (Infinite Crisis)

Superman splitting "a small Saturnian moon" in Lex 2000; or nearly knocking the Moon out of orbit merely by pounding on it (as one would pound on a table) while sick from Kryptonite poisoning (Til Death Do Us Part TPB).

When Superman and Flash last raced, Flash explained that, were Superman stopped dead in his tracks, it would destroy everything between the Flash's city and Moscow. That's a far larger tract of land than the Rockies -- it's an immense chunk of the planet.

Superman broke through a dome powerful enough to contain a nuclear blast with a stray backhand when he fought the Eradicator.

Superman also punched Bizarro through the planet, from Metropolis to China, in one hit.

This debate is now over!

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

At a convention back in the late 80's I asked Stan "THE MAN" Lee this same question and he answered that if it was just a strength issue that it would be the Hulk.Because the way he wrote it....The Hulk had no limits to his strenght.The mader he got the stronger he got.....but since Superman had so many other powers most likely be Superman.

 

[David Rice]

At a convention back in the late 80's I asked Stan "THE MAN" Lee this same question and he answered that if it was just a strength issue that it would be the Hulk. Because the way he wrote it....The Hulk had no limits to his strenght.The mader he got the stronger he got.....but since Superman had so many other powers most likely be Superman.

Of course he would say the Hulk. Everyone seems to forget that Hulk is still only human.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Of course he would say the Hulk. Everyone seems to forget that Hulk is still only human.

Being human has nothing to do with it.I firmly beleave that given the right amount of planning and time that ether Batman of Lex could beet Superman.As long as they dont let their ego's get in the way.And as long as Superman isnt in the control of someone else.

 

[David Rice]

Being human has nothing to do with it.I firmly beleave that given the right amount of planning and time that ether Batman of Lex could beet Superman. As long as they dont let their ego's get in the way.And as long as Superman isnt in the control of someone else.

What are we talking about?

We are taling about the Hulk, not Batman or Lex Luthor... of course they could beat Superman, Batman has already done it.

I'm talking about strength, speed, ect. There is no way a human could beat Superman with strength or any other pure force without Kryptonite. It's like Spiderman trying to fight Thor.

 

[Andy C.]

What are we talking about?

We are taling about the Hulk, not Batman or Lex Luthor... of course they could beat Superman, Batman has already done it.

I'm talking about strength, speed, ect. There is no way a human could beat Superman with strength or any other pure force without Kryptonite. It's like Spiderman trying to fight Thor.

When exactly in continuity did Batman ever beat Superman? DKR is an Elseworld, the fight in Hush ended in a draw, and the one in Sacrifice ended with Batman half-dead.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

What are we talking about?

We are taling about the Hulk, not Batman or Lex Luthor... of course they could beat Superman, Batman has already done it.

I'm talking about strength, speed, ect. There is no way a human could beat Superman with strength or any other pure force without Kryptonite. It's like Spiderman trying to fight Thor.

What I'm sayin is that you keep sayin that no human gould beat him and I'm just pointing out that a human could indeed do it.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

When exactly in continuity did Batman ever beat Superman? DKR is an Elseworld, the fight in Hush ended in a draw, and the one in Sacrifice ended with Batman half-dead.

When it come to these kind of fights you cant be a slave to continuity.As it stands DC would not put Bat's in a fight with Sup's in a story that didnt take place outside of continuity or didnt at least have one or the other of these guys not in their right minds.

 

[David Rice]

What I'm sayin is that you keep sayin that no human gould beat him and I'm just pointing out that a human could indeed do it.

No, I didn't say that. Did you even read my post?

And by the way being human has everything to do with it. Do you want to see what he could and would do to someone if he was evil? Go read some of stories about Superboy Prime.

 

[David Rice]

When exactly in continuity did Batman ever beat Superman? DKR is an Elseworld, the fight in Hush ended in a draw, and the one in Sacrifice ended with Batman half-dead.

Hush ended in a draw? I think not Sir, go read it again.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

No, I didn't say that. Did you even read my post?

And by the way being human has everything to do with it. Do you want to see what he could and would do to someone if he was evil? Go read some of stories about Superboy Prime.

Your right I did miss read your post....when you said [Everyone seems to forget that Hulk is still only human] I thought you were trying to say that nobody human could beat him.
But I dont get your meaning about being human having every thing to do with it and Superboy Prime.Althou I'm sure that he could kill many.....I could think of a few agumented humans that would beat him.

 

[David Rice]

Your right I did miss read your post....when you said [Everyone seems to forget that Hulk is still only human] I thought you were trying to say that nobody human could beat him. But I dont get your meaning about being human having every thing to do with it and Superboy Prime. Althou I'm sure that he could kill many.....I could think of a few agumented humans that would beat him.

Not that post, this one:

I'm talking about strength, speed, ect. There is no way a human could beat Superman with strength or any other pure force without Kryptonite. It's like Spiderman trying to fight Thor.

How can a mortal beat a god? How can a human (without a plan or some Kryptonite) beat Superman?

Most of the time Superman is holding back when he fights enemies. He's being the "boy scout".

agumented humans? Such as?

Go read Infinite Crisis, then you'll get it. If you want to know just how powerful Superman is then you might even try reading post #28 in this thread.

 

[Andy C.]

When it come to these kind of fights you cant be a slave to continuity.As it stands DC would not put Bat's in a fight with Sup's in a story that didnt take place outside of continuity or didnt at least have one or the other of these guys not in their right minds.

Slave to continuity or not, you've got to have some sort of standard as to what counts and what doesn't; otherwise, you might as well throw in fan-fics.

Hush ended in a draw? I think not Sir, go read it again.

I did read it. Several times. Batman gets in a few pot-shots with the K-ring, then spends pretty much the entire rest of the fight stalling for time so Catwoman could chuck Lois off of a building right before Supes would have crushed him. So yeah, Batman gets points for getting Clark to break Ivy's brainwashing and therefore ending the fight, but I'd hardly call that 'defeating' Superman.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Not that post, this one:

I'm talking about strength, speed, ect. There is no way a human could beat Superman with strength or any other pure force without Kryptonite. It's like Spiderman trying to fight Thor.

How can a mortal beat a god? How can a human (without a plan or some Kryptonite) beat Superman?

Most of the time Superman is holding back when he fights enemies. He's being the "boy scout".

agumented humans? Such as?

Go read Infinite Crisis, then you'll get it. If you want to know just how powerful Superman is then you might even try reading post #28 in this thread.

I've read Infinite Crisis and its not on point.And Superman is not a god, he is a mortal from a different planet.As for agumented human's....since we are talking about crossing universes in this topic...I could see a Captin Universe impowered Captain America could do the job.
And I could see a team of not so powerfull heros could gang up and get the job done as well.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Slave to continuity or not, you've got to have some sort of standard as to what counts and what doesn't; otherwise, you might as well throw in fan-fics.

My standard is wether or not it ever made it to print by DC comics.And the fact is that it has.In more then one story Batman has beaten Superman but I'll admit Superman was holding back a bit each time or was weekend by some other issue.

 

[Andy C.]

My standard is wether or not it ever made it to print by DC comics.And the fact is that it has.In more then one story Batman has beaten Superman but I'll admit Superman was holding back a bit each time or was weekend by some other issue.

By that standard, however, I could also say that Batman is a Green Lantern (In Darkest Knight) and a vampire (Batman and Dracula) and set in the early 1900s (Gotham by Gaslight). Or that Superman grew up in the Soviet Union (Red Son) and an Amish village (JLA: The Nail), and is immune to Kryptonite (Kingdom Come).

The Elseworld stories can't count because they intentionally tweak defining features of the characters. That's the whole point of them: telling how (x) might happen if (y) was different. And using them as a reference point for the mainline universe doesn't really make sense.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

By that standard, however, I could also say that Batman is a Green Lantern (In Darkest Knight) and a vampire (Batman and Dracula) and set in the early 1900s (Gotham by Gaslight). Or that Superman grew up in the Soviet Union (Red Son) and an Amish village (JLA: The Nail), and is immune to Kryptonite (Kingdom Come).

The Elseworld stories can't count because they intentionally tweak defining features of the characters. That's the whole point of them: telling how (x) might happen if (y) was different. And using them as a reference point for the mainline universe doesn't really make sense.

First of all to be 100% correct THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS when written was not a Elseworlds book but has been added to the line up as a way of appeasing the fan's..It was not even written to be a alternate version of Batman.It was written to be a posible future for the Batman but not the deffinitive one.It dosnt fit into the catogories you have listed with those other titals.But the point I was trying to make is that Batman has beat Superman in a other story that had no connection to any elseworls story....but I'm not sure if its in continuity any more.The DC cross over story was called Armageddon 2001 and to make a long story short Waverider traveled into the past looking for the hero that would become the bad guy Monarch of the future.He went to each Hero of the DCU and looked into their posible future's to see if it was he who became Monarch.When he got to Superman he saw a future in witch Superman had become very recless and apperied to had killed some U.S. Sailors
in a ship he sunk.Batman was then sent by the Presz to deal with Superman and Batman kills him.I know it was ment a a posible future and since that future didnt happen yet most of you guys will say that it dosnt count or its not in continuity but at the time it was in continuity and was ment to take place in a posible future.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

By that standard, however, I could also say that Batman is a Green Lantern (In Darkest Knight) and a vampire (Batman and Dracula) and set in the early 1900s (Gotham by Gaslight). Or that Superman grew up in the Soviet Union (Red Son) and an Amish village (JLA: The Nail), and is immune to Kryptonite (Kingdom Come).

The Elseworld stories can't count because they intentionally tweak defining features of the characters. That's the whole point of them: telling how (x) might happen if (y) was different. And using them as a reference point for the mainline universe doesn't really make sense.

Further more all these exsamples [save for Kingdom Come] were ment to take place Batman outside the norm.They were ment to be different takes on the story of Batman.Unlike KC and TDKR witch can easly fit into the mainstream univers as a possible future with out causing to much confusion to continuity issue's.

 

[David Rice]

I've read Infinite Crisis and its not on point.And Superman is not a god, he is a mortal from a different planet.As for agumented human's....since we are talking about crossing universes in this topic...I could see a Captin Universe impowered Captain America could do the job.
And I could see a team of not so powerfull heros could gang up and get the job done as well.

You've read Infinite Crisis and you believe that? OOOOOOOOK!

We are not even on topic anymore.

 

[David Rice]

I did read it. Several times. Batman gets in a few pot-shots with the K-ring, then spends pretty much the entire rest of the fight stalling for time so Catwoman could chuck Lois off of a building right before Supes would have crushed him. So yeah, Batman gets points for getting Clark to break Ivy's brainwashing and therefore ending the fight, but I'd hardly call that 'defeating' Superman.

Alright, that's a pretty fair assessment. I guess a better word would be out-smarted.

 

[Andy C.]

First of all to be 100% correct THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS when written was not a Elseworlds book but has been added to the line up as a way of appeasing the fan's..It was not even written to be a alternate version of Batman.It was written to be a posible future for the Batman but not the deffinitive one.It dosnt fit into the catogories you have listed with those other titals.But the point I was trying to make is that Batman has beat Superman in a other story that had no connection to any elseworls story....but I'm not sure if its in continuity any more.The DC cross over story was called Armageddon 2001 and to make a long story short Waverider traveled into the past looking for the hero that would become the bad guy Monarch of the future.He went to each Hero of the DCU and looked into their posible future's to see if it was he who became Monarch.When he got to Superman he saw a future in witch Superman had become very recless and apperied to had killed some U.S. Sailors
in a ship he sunk.Batman was then sent by the Presz to deal with Superman and Batman kills him.I know it was ment a a posible future and since that future didnt happen yet most of you guys will say that it dosnt count or its not in continuity but at the time it was in continuity and was ment to take place in a posible future.

I'm well aware that DKR was not originally meant to be an Elseworlds title, but even in its original 'possible future' status, it's still not consistent with the characterization of either Batman or Superman (mainly because Frank Miller can't write Superman worth a damn) And it was never meant to be in continuity.

And by its very definition, a 'possible future,' whether it's DKR or Armageddon 2001, can't count as a reference point; it'd be like if I defined X-Men all by 'Days of the Future Past.'