Comics Superman VS Hulk in WWH

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

You've read Infinite Crisis and you believe that? OOOOOOOOK!

We are not even on topic anymore.

Think about if Superman were to ever go evil he could do far more damage then Superboy Prime did.He was acting like a spoiled brat and was holding back.Superboy Prime is should be the equal [or pretty close] to Pre-1st CRISIS.With that kind of power he could have eaten this planet if he wanted.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

I'm well aware that DKR was not originally meant to be an Elseworlds title, but even in its original 'possible future' status, it's still not consistent with the characterization of either Batman or Superman (mainly because Frank Miller can't write Superman worth a damn) And it was never meant to be in continuity.

And by its very definition, a 'possible future,' whether it's DKR or Armageddon 2001, can't count as a reference point; it'd be like if I defined X-Men all by 'Days of the Future Past.'

I dont see your connection to X-Mens days of futurs past. I.M.O. it isnt that hard to get a feel for the nature of the character's in that book......I beleave it was truer to the sourse then TDKR.Continuity in comic books and DC in particular is in its own definition a parodox.I have had this kind of debate before:::Had Batman ever killed????Has he ever used a gun?????how many children has he fathered????It all changes at the wim of the publisher.Even the characterization of their hero's has fallen victom to this delema over the years ,even in book that are considered to be in continuity.
And if the characterization of these two hero's is your major point,and the way these two are written in resent day's, then Batman would beat Superman threw much planning and most likely with the help of a few others.The fact is by character,Superman is most likely to be holding back and not truly be fighting at fuul power and he has more then one weekness that Batman can exploite.
Like I said DC will never put these two in a fight with each other that is in continuity while both hero's are in control of them selfs.

 

[David Rice]

Think about if Superman were to ever go evil he could do far more damage then Superboy Prime did. He was acting like a spoiled brat and was holding back. Superboy Prime is should be the equal [or pretty close] to Pre-1st CRISIS. With that kind of power he could have eaten this planet if he wanted.

Your post makes not sense. Why are you asking me to think about Superman going bad? I was the one who brought it up. I know he could far more damage then Prime, that was my point. What I don't get is how you think a few hyped-up humans could take Superman based on that very fact.

You think Prime was holding back? How many people did he kill?

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Your post makes not sense. Why are you asking me to think about Superman going bad? I was the one who brought it up. I know he could far more damage then Prime, that was my point. What I don't get is how you think a few hyped-up humans could take Superman based on that very fact.

You think Prime was holding back? How many people did he kill?

You must be getting my point confused.You said that if I want to see what a Evil Superman could do that I should look at what SBPrime did.And I was just stating that a truly evil SM could do far more damage then Prime did.And he was deffinatley holding back some.I dont know how long you've been reading DC comic's or Superman for that mater but Prime is from the time before the first crisis.He was soppose to be the equil of of pre crisis Superman.That SM juggled planets and moved the sun.I know it sounds silly but thats how it was.No mater how man people he killed he could have ripped this planel in half with out much effort.

 

[David Rice]

You must be getting my point confused.You said that if I want to see what a Evil Superman could do that I should look at what SBPrime did.And I was just stating that a truly evil SM could do far more damage then Prime did.And he was deffinatley holding back some.I dont know how long you've been reading DC comic's or Superman for that mater but Prime is from the time before the first crisis.He was soppose to be the equil of of pre crisis Superman.That SM juggled planets and moved the sun.I know it sounds silly but thats how it was.No mater how man people he killed he could have ripped this planel in half with out much effort.

No, I'm not getting your point confused, but I think you might be. You say that some hyped-up humans could take Superman, but then you agree that if he turned evil he would do far more damage than Prime. So if he could destory the planet then he must be holding back most of the time when he fights. That is the point I'm try to get across to you. I told you look at Prime because of what he did. That is only a small taste of his power. You keep contradicting youself on this issue.

We are going in a circle here. Let be put it in black and white for you:

1. Superman is Kryptonian and has alien DNA - because of this the normal laws of earth, gravity, physics, motion, ect. do not apply to him.

2. No matter what form Superman is in, he is always holding back. Thus, if he wanted to rip his enemies apart he could. Do you really think that if it meant the life of his wife or Jimmy he would not kill? If you think he wouldn't then you sir are wrong.

3. This started about the Hulk. No matter how powerful he has become in WWH, his is still human. Even if he is hyped-up, he is still human. The Hulk could and would not beat him with just strength or speed or pure force. It could not happen. His body has limits becuase he was born here on earth. Superman has limits too, but they are far beyond the Hulk's.

This is a list of Superman greatest feets put together by Redwolf:

1) Atomizing Earth 2 as the collateral damage of hitting, and being hit by, Kal-L; that is, the planet received no hit, but was simply destroyed as a collateral effect of a single punch on the two combatants' bodies. (Superman Infinite Crisis TPB)

2) Holding a black hole in one hand; then producing sufficient static electricity (via rubbing his hands) for Green Lantern to corral into a temporary containment force; then actually throwing the black hole into another black hole. (JLA 81 or 82)

(Incidentally black holes are the collapsed remains of super-massive stars that have, at minimum, the mass of at least 30 of our Sun, according to modern science.)

3) "Shattering the boundaries of space and time" by way of his fight against Kal-L; that is, hitting each other so hard that: 1) Superman and Kal-L actually switch into the past, present and future of each other's lives; 2) Elseworld versions of themselves actually manifested in time and space. (Superman Infinite Crisis TPB)

4) Superman reverses the vibratory pattern of an entire alternate Earth; does so from high orbit; that is, not even touching the planet. (Adventures of Superman Cannibal Planet issue)

5) Superman and Kal-L, who came up equal in their fight, manhandle Superboy Prime across galaxies and force him through Krypton's Sun. Superboy Prime, it was said and shown, was strong enough to move planets as easily as someone moves "chess pieces." (Infinite Crisis)

6) Superman flies from Vega to Earth in seconds, or light years from a spaceship to the inside of a Sun Eater. He wades through Earth's assembled alien forces (J'onn, Powergirl, Kilowog, etc) in a matter of panels. One shots Despero with heat vision. And has his power depleted and is thrown through Earth and into its core and survives, as well as survives a 700 light year anti-matter explosion when power depleted. (Action Comics)

I've been reading comics for a long time. I know all about Prime, I know how powerful he is. Some of the stuff in that list I already knew and I learned a couple of new things too. After reading that list, how anyone could think that a "hyped-up human" or a group of hyped-up humans could take him is beyond me. The only people in Marvel who could "get the job done" with just force is Thor or maybe Sentry.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

No, I'm not getting your point confused, but I think you might be. You say that some hyped-up humans could take Superman, but then you agree that if he turned evil he would do far more damage than Prime. So if he could destory the planet then he must be holding back most of the time when he fights. That is the point I'm try to get across to you. I told you look at Prime because of what he did. That is only a small taste of his power. You keep contradicting youself on this issue.

We are going in a circle here. Let be put it in black and white for you:

1. Superman is Kryptonian and has alien DNA - because of this the normal laws of earth, gravity, physics, motion, ect. do not apply to him.

2. No matter what form Superman is in, he is always holding back. Thus, if he wanted to rip his enemies apart he could. Do you really think that if it meant the life of his wife or Jimmy he would not kill? If you think he wouldn't then you sir are wrong.

3. This started about the Hulk. No matter how powerful he has become in WWH, his is still human. Even if he is hyped-up, he is still human. The Hulk could and would not beat him with just strength or speed or pure force. It could not happen. His body has limits becuase he was born here on earth. Superman has limits too, but they are far beyond the Hulk's.

This is a list of Superman greatest feets put together by Redwolf:

1) Atomizing Earth 2 as the collateral damage of hitting, and being hit by, Kal-L; that is, the planet received no hit, but was simply destroyed as a collateral effect of a single punch on the two combatants' bodies. (Superman Infinite Crisis TPB)

2) Holding a black hole in one hand; then producing sufficient static electricity (via rubbing his hands) for Green Lantern to corral into a temporary containment force; then actually throwing the black hole into another black hole. (JLA 81 or 82)

(Incidentally black holes are the collapsed remains of super-massive stars that have, at minimum, the mass of at least 30 of our Sun, according to modern science.)

3) "Shattering the boundaries of space and time" by way of his fight against Kal-L; that is, hitting each other so hard that: 1) Superman and Kal-L actually switch into the past, present and future of each other's lives; 2) Elseworld versions of themselves actually manifested in time and space. (Superman Infinite Crisis TPB)

4) Superman reverses the vibratory pattern of an entire alternate Earth; does so from high orbit; that is, not even touching the planet. (Adventures of Superman Cannibal Planet issue)

5) Superman and Kal-L, who came up equal in their fight, manhandle Superboy Prime across galaxies and force him through Krypton's Sun. Superboy Prime, it was said and shown, was strong enough to move planets as easily as someone moves "chess pieces." (Infinite Crisis)

6) Superman flies from Vega to Earth in seconds, or light years from a spaceship to the inside of a Sun Eater. He wades through Earth's assembled alien forces (J'onn, Powergirl, Kilowog, etc) in a matter of panels. One shots Despero with heat vision. And has his power depleted and is thrown through Earth and into its core and survives, as well as survives a 700 light year anti-matter explosion when power depleted. (Action Comics)

I've been reading comics for a long time. I know all about Prime, I know how powerful he is. Some of the stuff in that list I already knew and I learned a couple of new things too. After reading that list, how anyone could think that a "hyped-up human" or a group of hyped-up humans could take him is beyond me. The only people in Marvel who could "get the job done" with just force is Thor or maybe Sentry.

You are getting my point confused.And I'm not trying to argue with you at all.The question was never wether Superman had the power or abilitly to defeat WW Hulk or anybody else for that mater ,but wether we had the will.I'm fully aware that he's holding back in almost every fight he has ever had Doomsday and Darkside being the only time's I think he cut's loose.I agree with you that if Superman were ever to go evil that he would most likly be unstopable.......but the question in this topic was wether Superman could beat WWHulk not if a evil Superman could beat him.
And I never said that any hyped up human could beat Superman.....I said that a agumented human could and when you asked me like who I gave you my exsample......a Captin Universe empowered Captain America would most definatley be able to do the job.Captain Univeres's power's come from the Uni-Power witch emanates from the Enigma Force and if the need it is needed can sumon the sum total of the combined powers of all cosmic entities within the Marvel Univeres.
Now getting to the point of a group takeing Superman down.It would still have to be while Supe's was holding back some I'll admit.But we were never talking about a evil Superman.....just Superman the way he is potrayed in his regular book.Remember Supe's has more then one weekness.
As for Marvel charters alone......Thor is my altime fav Marvel charter but I dont think he would beat Superman evil or not but I'm shocked that you didnt add The Silver Surfer to your list.

 

[David Rice]

You are getting my point confused.And I'm not trying to argue with you at all.The question was never wether Superman had the power or abilitly to defeat WW Hulk or anybody else for that mater ,but wether we had the will.I'm fully aware that he's holding back in almost every fight he has ever had Doomsday and Darkside being the only time's I think he cut's loose.I agree with you that if Superman were ever to go evil that he would most likly be unstopable.......but the question in this topic was wether Superman could beat WWHulk not if a evil Superman could beat him.
And I never said that any hyped up human could beat Superman.....I said that a agumented human could and when you asked me like who I gave you my exsample......a Captin Universe empowered Captain America would most definatley be able to do the job. Captain Univeres's power's come from the Uni-Power witch emanates from the Enigma Force and if the need it is needed can sumon the sum total of the combined powers of all cosmic entities within the Marvel Univeres. Now getting to the point of a group takeing Superman down.It would still have to be while Supe's was holding back some I'll admit.But we were never talking about a evil Superman.....just Superman the way he is potrayed in his regular book.Remember Supe's has more then one weekness. As for Marvel charters alone......Thor is my altime fav Marvel charter but I dont think he would beat Superman evil or not but I'm shocked that you didnt add The Silver Surfer to your list.

Hyped up... agumented... same thing. As for this Captin Universe empowered Captain America thing... what are you talking about? You can't give Captain America powers he doesn't normally have. You can't give anyone powers that they don't currently have.

And I never said he would be evil. I was just giving a example of his power with the Superboy Prime thing and the other six examples. (which you ignored completely)

Thor is a god! I'm shocked you think he couldn't.

I have no idea where the Silver Surfer is in the Marvel Universe right now, that why I didin't put him in there.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Hyped up... agumented... same thing. As for this Captin Universe empowered Captain America thing... what are you talking about? You can't give Captain America powers he doesn't normally have. You can't give anyone powers that they don't currently have.

The nature of the Captain Univers power is different.In times of great need the power is bestowed opon some one.....and it could be anyone,Spiderman, Doctor Strange, Commander Arcturus Rann of the Micronauts,a baby ,a dog Mister Fantastic Captain Mar-vel and even a Doombot have all been granted the powers of Captain Universe at one time or universe.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Thor is a god! I'm shocked you think he couldn't.

I have no idea where the Silver Surfer is in the Marvel Universe right now, that why I didin't put him in there.

Dude Thor cant beat the Hulk.....He has been able to stand toe to toe for a long time frame but he never could beat him.The Hulk alway came out on top.And I have no idea where the Silver Surfer is these days ether.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

And I never said he would be evil. I was just giving a example of his power with the Superboy Prime thing and the other six examples. (which you ignored completely)

.

I didnt ignore it at all.It just wasnt need to prove my point [or your for that mater] Like I said I know that Superman has the strenth,speed and power to beat almost every body that we could think of putting him in a fight with it just that with his holding back all the time he just doednt have the will to really win the kind of fights were talking about here.
I think that some of you guys are so acustom to others tring to push their ideas on you that you think every body is like that.To me this is just a friendly debate.

 

[newmexneon]

Superman is my favorite hero but the Hulk is pretty much unstoppable right now. He tossed aside a full powered Juggernaut, broke Doctor Stranges hands and has pretty much smashed everyone that's stood in front of him so far. Superman may have the Speed and flight over Hulk but Hulk strength is vastly superior to Superman right now.

Hulk would win in his current state.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Superman is my favorite hero but the Hulk is pretty much unstoppable right now. He tossed aside a full powered Juggernaut, broke Doctor Stranges hands and has pretty much smashed everyone that's stood in front of him so far. Superman may have the Speed and flight over Hulk but Hulk strength is vastly superior to Superman right now.

Hulk would win in his current state.

Thats only if you count the current state of Supe's strenth.....and even then its debateble.Speed alone would make a hudge difference.Superman could move a such speeds that Hulk might not be able to even land a punch.
And if you think of Super's power level's in the past....most notebly Pre-Crisis Superman....Most likly the most powerful he has ever been.....jugguling planets,Moving the Sun,Displaceing a Black hole,speeds faster then the speed of light,Not having to breath in space at all,Moving fast enough to reverse time its self.No Hulk to date would have been able to stand against that Superman.
But the current Hulk vers the curent Superman would be a good fight but the Hulk wouldnt stand much of a chance the second that Supe's figures out that he doesnt have to hold back.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

.


3. This started about the Hulk. No matter how powerful he has become in WWH, his is still human. Even if he is hyped-up, he is still human. The Hulk could and would not beat him with just strength or speed or pure force. It could not happen. His body has limits becuase he was born here on earth. Superman has limits too, but they are far beyond the Hulk's..

The being born human factor doesnt have anything to do with it.....even you thing the Sentry might have a chance at beating Superman and he's only human.What it breaks down to is power level and the will to do what has to be done to win.

 

[David Rice]

I didnt ignore it at all.It just wasnt need to prove my point [or your for that mater] Like I said I know that Superman has the strenth,speed and power to beat almost every body that we could think of putting him in a fight with it just that with his holding back all the time he just doednt have the will to really win the kind of fights were talking about here.
I think that some of you guys are so acustom to others tring to push their ideas on you that you think every body is like that. To me this is just a friendly debate.[/quote]

I think we are just misunderstanding each other.

You are right about that last line. If I came off as a dick, I didn't mean too.

 

[David Rice]

Superman is my favorite hero but the Hulk is pretty much unstoppable right now. He tossed aside a full powered Juggernaut, broke Doctor Stranges hands and has pretty much smashed everyone that's stood in front of him so far. Superman may have the Speed and flight over Hulk but Hulk strength is vastly superior to Superman right now.

Hulk would win in his current state.

Ummm, no.

 

[Omega Red]

Ok here is something I want to throw out there. Supes couldnt beat Doomsday!

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

I didnt ignore it at all.It just wasnt need to prove my point [or your for that mater] Like I said I know that Superman has the strenth,speed and power to beat almost every body that we could think of putting him in a fight with it just that with his holding back all the time he just doednt have the will to really win the kind of fights were talking about here.
I think that some of you guys are so acustom to others tring to push their ideas on you that you think every body is like that. To me this is just a friendly debate.[/quote]

I think we are just misunderstanding each other.

You are right about that last line. If I came off as a dick, I didn't mean too.

No prob mant:

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Ok here is something I want to throw out there. Supes couldnt beat Doomsday!

And...........whats your point????????? Doomsday was artificially created on Krypton in the past and was created to be the ultimate lifeform.Doomsday was forced to endure the agony of death, thousands of times only to be reborn over and over again untill he gained the ability to evolve against what killed him in his prior life.Doomsday can develop/evolve resistances to whatever injures or harms him and possesses extreme physical strength that even surpasses that of Superman under normal circumstances.He far out matches the Hulk.

 

[Omega Red]

And...........whats your point????????? Doomsday was artificially created on Krypton in the past and was created to be the ultimate lifeform.Doomsday was forced to endure the agony of death, thousands of times only to be reborn over and over again untill he gained the ability to evolve against what killed him in his prior life.Doomsday can develop/evolve resistances to whatever injures or harms him and possesses extreme physical strength that even surpasses that of Superman under normal circumstances.He far out matches the Hulk.

I know the story on Doomsday I have TPB on my shelf.

But that is my point he could not beat his greatest enemy. And you think he could go put against the strongest hero of all.

now not to sound rude. Everyone who say Supes will beat Hulk is say he would win because of his smarts but he was not smart enough to destroy Doomsday, Mother box has to do it for him.

And a big gripe I have here is most people was to put Hulk as the one word grey hulk. Sorry but he has been going for a very long time. And so has P.C superman.

So you have to weigh the fact you have for the CURRENT versions.

And with that in mind Hulk would win. HANDS DOWN

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

I know the story on Doomsday I have TPB on my shelf.

But that is my point he could not beat his greatest enemy. And you think he could go put against the strongest hero of all.

now not to sound rude. Everyone who say Supes will beat Hulk is say he would win because of his smarts but he was not smart enough to destroy Doomsday, Mother box has to do it for him.

And a big gripe I have here is most people was to put Hulk as the one word grey hulk. Sorry but he has been going for a very long time. And so has P.C superman.

So you have to weigh the fact you have for the CURRENT versions.

And with that in mind Hulk would win. HANDS DOWN

I dont think smarts has anything to do with it.Super intellect my ass.And I am sppeking about the current versions when I say I think Supe's will beat Hulk.The point I'm trying to make is that I think that Doomsday would beat the Hulk too..And even if you want to say that the Hulk has reached Superman's strenth level [witch I dont think he has but I could be wrong] thats not the only thing that the Hulk would be going up against.On the ground and in the air Superman can reach speeds approaching the speed of light.At those speeds The Hulk wont be able to land a single punch on Superman.And I think that his heat vision is capable of cutting trew the Hulks skin.So think about Supes frying the Hulks brain with his heat vision.The real issue is wether or not Superman has the bal*'s to win a fight in this fashion.And the current Superman does not.
On the other hand I could but together a group of heros and villians that together could beat Superman.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

I know the story on Doomsday I have TPB on my shelf.

But that is my point he could not beat his greatest enemy. And you think he could go put against the strongest hero of all.

now not to sound rude. Everyone who say Supes will beat Hulk is say he would win because of his smarts but he was not smart enough to destroy Doomsday, Mother box has to do it for him.

And a big gripe I have here is most people was to put Hulk as the one word grey hulk. Sorry but he has been going for a very long time. And so has P.C superman.

So you have to weigh the fact you have for the CURRENT versions.

And with that in mind Hulk would win. HANDS DOWN

What do you mean by "the one word Grey Hulk"?

 

[David Rice]

Ok here is something I want to throw out there. Supes couldnt beat Doomsday!

Ummmmm, Yes he could. He beat him the first time. It just cost him his life.

 

[David Rice]

I dont think smarts has anything to do with it.Super intellect my ass.And I am sppeking about the current versions when I say I think Supe's will beat Hulk.The point I'm trying to make is that I think that Doomsday would beat the Hulk too..And even if you want to say that the Hulk has reached Superman's strenth level [witch I dont think he has but I could be wrong] thats not the only thing that the Hulk would be going up against.On the ground and in the air Superman can reach speeds approaching the speed of light.At those speeds The Hulk wont be able to land a single punch on Superman.And I think that his heat vision is capable of cutting trew the Hulks skin.So think about Supes frying the Hulks brain with his heat vision.The real issue is wether or not Superman has the bal*'s to win a fight in this fashion.And the current Superman does not.
On the other hand I could but together a group of heros and villians that together could beat Superman.

The World War Hulk is much stronger now, faster, has super intelligence and a healing factor better then Wolverines. But I still think Superman would take him... in the right mind set that is.

 

[Omega Red]

What do you mean by "the one word Grey Hulk"?

You know what I mean. The "Hulk Smash" type of hulk. Thats the arguement I always see when this type of contest happens.

 

[Omega Red]

Ummmmm, Yes he could. He beat him the first time. It just cost him his life.

Nah that was a draw. Double KO