Superman vs. The Elite (DC Universe movie)

So what you're all saying is, the blood-count doesn't rise to the level of that scene in "Under the Red Hood"?
 
^Just like in real life. :o
 
This film is the best animated Superman film I've ever seen, if Man of Steel is anywhere close to this film I'll be one happy camper.

George Newbern's voice acting was top notch and he might just be my favorite Superman voice actor ever, but then again I loved him in JL/JLU. The story was very good and brought up some very interesting view points on Superman's methods, the Elite were a nice contrast to him as well.

The action was stellar and Supes did some really creatives things with his powers, I don't think he's ever used his powers that cleverly in animation. Both fights with Atomic Skull was great and the final fight with the Elite was magnificent, I'm glad they gave A. Skull who's a lesser known villain some much needed shine.

Overall I give the film a 9/10 and it just might be my favorite DC Animated Universe film of all time. :supes:
 
It's certainly the most mature DC Animated film and it packs the strongest punch emotionally.

When Atomic Skull's Skull was obliterated... I was so shocked. It just really hit home, especially with the kid encouraging it. Such a powerful story
 
Absolutely loved this movie! (So good I forgave the quirky character designs.)
This movie really helped emphasize the greatness of Superman....much like Kingdom Come (on a somewhat smaller scale). Since they are doing Dark Knight Returns in 2 parts next, maybe they will have the courage to try Kingdom Come in the same fashion soon! :woot:
 
I absolutely hated CK/Superman's animation design (It grew on me a TINY bit as the movie went on), however, overall this movie was flat-out badass, imo
 
hopefuldreamer said:
It's certainly the most mature DC Animated film and it packs the strongest punch emotionally.

When Atomic Skull's Skull was obliterated... I was so shocked. It just really hit home, especially with the kid encouraging it. Such a powerful story
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Not only that, but it also had some of the best action scenes as well as being the most emotional which is very shocking.
 
BlueLightning said:
So I just watched Superman vs The Elite. I recently had a Superman streak, I have been watching old films, and I was eager to see this story. I thought it was great, if a little longer. It was in some ways, Superman at his best. I think everyone who think Superman is a dull and irrelevant character should watch this film.

I think sometimes it gets just a little preachy, but it touches some very relevant issues about morality, taking the hard way and doing the best we can. I think the best thing about Superman is how he handles things, he struggles to do things right, and he does it right.

And you can see how frightening it can be to have a being with so much power. I didn't see that ending coming. Superman going evil was definitively terrifying. And although I could see that he was just trying to make the world understand, it came to me as some sort of commentary about doing the right thing.

The opening was funny to look at, poking fun at the character itself, and making a point about how some people view Superman. The Elite itself was almost a perfect counterpoint to the Man of Steel. And they made some very interesting points about Superman and superheros in general. The little stories in between, the reactions of the people. I had a little gut in my throat when the little kid wanted the Atomic Skull dead because of the murder of his father. There were some very mature topics, and they where handled nicely.

Although the animation seemed a little different, it kinda reminded me of old school animation. I don't think it was the best, or if it was intentional, but I liked it. It had a vibrant feel, opposed to the thematics, like a juxtaposition of Superman and the Elite itself.

I loved the voice acting, and George Newbern in Superman Evil mode was downright scary, it showed a lot of range. And I just loved that Lois knew Clark secret and that they were a couple. It was a nice dynamic. I know in the comics they were married before all of this 52 Mumbo Jumbo, and I kind of dread that they can't/won't show these kind of interaction between the two.

It is nice to see Superman as it should be. I think this film is a good exercise for the soul.

Edit: I loved the intro credits, just had to mention it :D
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I think you pretty much nailed this flick exactly as I experienced it. I can agree with the little preachy part too (well, don't forget Superman is as American as you can get, us non-Americans will think some moral/patriotic preaching stuff regarding these characters might be a bit over the top to us sometimes), but yet not too much of that here IMHO. The moral issues Supes had were really grounded, and also the driving concept of the story.

I was also quite skeptical about the animation art at first, but after a short while watching I didn't even think about it.

One of the very best DC animated flicks so far. But most of all: A really, really great Superman story (I haven't read the original story yet, I'd might add). I highly recommend it.
 
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If Batman's best animated movie is Under the Red Hood, then Superman's is definately Vs Elite. Amazing movie and actually better than the graphic novel.
This movie would have got 10/10 from me but loses a point for the animation style and voice acting from certain characters *cough* Lois *cough*. 9/10

Marvel rules live action but DC is king of the animated features
 
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spider-neil said:
If Batman's best animated movie is Under the Red Hood, then Superman's is definately Vs Elite. Amazing movie and actually better than the graphic novel.
This movie would have got 10/10 from me but loses a point for the animation style and voice acting from certain characters *cough* Lois *cough*. 9/10
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I was fine with the voice acting for Lois. Other than that I pretty much agree.

Marvel rules live action but DC is king of the animated features
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At this point that's become a very sad second place prize. :csad:
 
spider-neil said:
How so?
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Marvel's managed to set up successful film franchises for Iron Man, Captain America, Thor, and now the Avengers. What do DC & WB have in the live action department? They have Batman. Batman, Batman and... more Batman. When in doubt just throw more Batman at the general public. Last year's Green Lantern didn't do the desired numbers and there's still no guarantee that next year's Superman reboot will put Superman back where he belongs, and if it doesn't then you can say goodbye to Superman for another 850 years. The undeniably iconic Wonder Woman couldn't even get a proposed new TV show onto the air, let alone get a live action film going despite all the filmmakers & screenwriters who get attached. We don't even know if WB has the courage to follow through with the proposed live action film adaptation of the Flash. Yes, straight to DVD animation is nice but I'd much rather see DC & WB make progress with non-Batman properties in the live action arena than settle for 70+ minute animated features.
 
hopefuldreamer said:
It's certainly the most mature DC Animated film and it packs the strongest punch emotionally.

When Atomic Skull's Skull was obliterated... I was so shocked. It just really hit home, especially with the kid encouraging it. Such a powerful story
Click to expand...
This is the most emotional moment of any DCAU movie, IMO...

 
Panthro said:
I was fine with the voice acting for Lois. Other than that I pretty much agree.
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Yeah, personally I think Pauley Perrette did a great job as Lois here.

But perhaps I'm way too biased since I think she's sexy as hell and that goes for her voice as well. :woot:
 
Her voice is a bit too throaty for me.

I got what they were going for, but she took it just a bit too far, IMO.
 
Panthro said:
Marvel's managed to set up successful film franchises for Iron Man, Captain America, Thor, and now the Avengers. What do DC & WB have in the live action department? They have Batman. Batman, Batman and... more Batman. When in doubt just throw more Batman at the general public. Last year's Green Lantern didn't do the desired numbers and there's still no guarantee that next year's Superman reboot will put Superman back where he belongs, and if it doesn't then you can say goodbye to Superman for another 850 years. The undeniably iconic Wonder Woman couldn't even get a proposed new TV show onto the air, let alone get a live action film going despite all the filmmakers & screenwriters who get attached. We don't even know if WB has the courage to follow through with the proposed live action film adaptation of the Flash. Yes, straight to DVD animation is nice but I'd much rather see DC & WB make progress with non-Batman properties in the live action arena than settle for 70+ minute animated features.
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Panthro is so right here (sadly), althogh I enjoy every bit of animated DC stuff that comes out. But the latter is of course not the issue here.

Personally I feel very sad for the failed WW project, It would've been so frakking cool to see a modern Wondy kicking ass in a decent TV show..
 
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I just saw it and really enjoyed. Haven't felt this way about a DC animated film since Under the Red Hood. I found it funny/sad that a film about the hate Superman gets for his ideals feels like it didn't get much love when it came to animation, budget, and advertisement. I wonder if it was done on purpose. I'll have to check out the comic it's based on.
 
It's pretty much exactly the same.

If anything, the movie's better because it actually has additional scenes that the comic doesn't.
 
The thing about these movies is, while I enjoy (some of) them. It's really nothing you can't do in a show, like say Justice League (in the style, that is). They're fairly short. The animation quality isn't terrible, but it's not all that much better than an animated show with a decent budget either. But you can't put any of these films on the silver screen.

So really, I'd rather have a good animated show, incorporating these stories, than animated movies.
 
"SUPERMAN VS. THE ELITE" is the second of two of the "thrice a year" animated DTV's released by DC Entertainment and WB Home Video, and the 14th in total from them. I remember when I initially heard that it was an adaptation of ACTION COMICS #775 from Joe Kelly circa 2001, I thought it was a sign of the bottom of the barrel. While that was a very memorable one-shot, it was the last thing I ever thought would ever be adapted to animation especially ahead of so many other classic stories (such as KINGDOM COME). When screen shots of the animation came back, I was also less than thrilled with the character models for this one. However, I was thrilled to have George Newbern get a chance to not only reprise his role as Superman from "JL/U" again, but to be able to do so in one of these feature length DVD flicks. After all, Tim Daly has managed to do so at least four times, and while I like Daly and all, I'd thought Newbern had more than earned his shot at the title during 5 seasons of "JUSTICE LEAGUE". The fact that Joe Kelly was returning to write the script for this DTV was another good sign, and while I had read the original comic I was wondering if the narrative would overcome the animation.

Having seen it, the answer is a resounding yes.

Let's get the elephant out of the room quickly. The animation on this one wasn't quite up to snuff with many of the others. The character models were a bit exaggerated, and while it did help contrast the darker tones and mature themes, it was something I thought would have been more at home with something else. The animation itself was alright, although to be frank the average episode of "YOUNG JUSTICE" usually looks a lot better. Considering that WB is releasing these at a rate of 3 a year - even at their peak, Marvel & Lion's Gate only released 2 DTV's a year - it could be some sign of the budget catching up somewhere. By the end of the feature I was pleased enough that the character models and hum-drum animation weren't major factors to me, but they were a blemish. It is a shame as there may be some people who don't give it a chance because it doesn't look as pretty as some of those "DC UNIVERSE PRESENTS" shorts. The last time Newbern voiced Superman, it was for "SUPERMAN/SHAZAM: THE RETURN OF BLACK ADAM" and that looked far prettier than this did. Perhaps it is time WB considered shortening their DTV schedule a little so that the animation quality wouldn't suffer. It does seem like a catch-22 as there were many fans who were tiring of Phil B. seeming to design the character models in every other feature, but I feel this was too much of an extreme. Still, just as a book shouldn't be judged by it's cover, an animated feature shouldn't be judged solely by the character models. After all, I have seen MANY features where the animation was stunning but the script was a bit plain, or even poor. "JUSTICE LEAGUE: DOOM" had far better animation yet the story didn't stick with me after a viewing as "SUPERMAN VS. THE ELITE" did.

The plot of the special is essentially the same as the one-shot comic, only extended to cover over an hour's worth of material. A new team of anti-heroes called "The Elite" emerge on the scene after Superman puts away Atomic Skull, led by the cynical and violent psychic Manchester Black. While Superman is initially willing to give them a chance when they help him out during a crisis, he ultimately sees their dark, murderous method to dealing with both crime and international terrorism. The dilemma is the media seems to be on their side, with Manchester Black seeing himself as the future of superheroism, with Superman as an outdated relic. The comic in 2001 was naturally seeking to compare Superman with the sort of "extreme heroes" who had risen to popularity by the time the 90's ended and showcase why he was still relevant. In the end, Superman is challenged to a showdown with the Elite once it becomes obvious that he will not allow them to slaughter their enemies without facing justice. While even Lois Lane wonders if Superman can survive a battle against "ruthless heroes willing to kill", in the end it is Superman who reveals a little of his "dark side" and showcase why it is a very good thing that Superman stands for "truth, justice, and the American way" instead of wasting people in the streets like someone from The Authority - who The Elite seem to be a satire of. Both the comic and this DTV are a bit preachy in moments, but that isn't exactly a bad thing and if anything it's become MORE relevant after 11+ years of "the war on terror". After all, ACTION COMICS #775 came out a mere 6 months before 9/11.

George Newbern is well experienced in his role as Superman on and off for the past 11 years, to the point that he's solid at voicing the character saying the sorts of things that Superman is known for saying as well as those rare moments when Superman breaks character a bit and gets angry. An entire TV Trope has emerged from his "World Of Cardboard" speech/performance from the series finale of "JLU" and this DTV gives Newbern a similar moment where it seems Superman has had enough and is getting REALLY serious with some nasty sociopaths who have it coming. Pauley Perrette from "NCIS" voices Lois this time and she does seem to have gotten a lot of one-liners to showcase what she may be best at, and overall handles things pretty well. Robin Atkin Downes voices Manchester Black and while Black seems to deliberately speak in that arrogant and cuss-ridden manner that it seems anti-heroes written by Mark Millar, Grant Morrison and/or Warren Ellis always seem to speak in, he is perfectly engaging as the lead antagonist. Andrew Kishino voices one of the Elite, "The Hat", and that was notable to me because he kicked butt on "SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN" as Kong. The rest of the Elite are more forgettable to me; you have the "large angry black guy" and the "weird woman who flirts endlessly", but since The Elite are satires of "extreme" characters it works out fine. An extended bit which isn't in the comic involves Atomic Skull as the reoccurring villain of choice from Superman's rogues gallery, voiced by Dee Bradly Baker. In fact this is the first Superman animated piece that I can remember that didn't involve Lex Luthor, Brainiac, or Metallo in some capacity. Atomic Skull is captured early on in the film and the fact that he's one of Superman's many perennially returning rogues who destroys property and kills people every time he escapes is a key detail in the first two acts of the film. The scene where Atomic Skull kills off a U.N. representative and his son Terrance demands that Manchester Black murder him in revenge despite Superman's pleas, that's some powerful stuff. Paul Eiding really only gets one scene as Pa Kent, but it's a good one. Plus, David Kaufman reprises his role as Jimmy Olson for a cameo.

Kelly naturally gets to expand a bit on his original story from 2001 and he does a marvelous job here. While I know we're supposed to be more understanding of other cultures and not be so xenophobic, I did like that this is probably the first mass media Superman production that recited his old "truth, justice, and the American way" slogan without shame, because much like Capt. America, Superman represented an American IDEAL at best, not blind loyalty to it. That's a point that Frank Miller always missed, casting Superman as an establishment tool. Kelly capitalizes on the post-9/11 world that has merged in the 11 years after he wrote this comic and plays with it well with the sound bites from the media in relation to the Elite. The dialogue is very well written and there is a lot of fantastically bizarre sci-fi stuff, such as the giant bacteria from another dimension that serves as the Elite's home base or the strange powers that all of the Elite have. While it is a bit of an easy solution to link Manchester Black's outlook to his tragic childhood, in the end the story still challenges the audience to not give into fear and vengeance and instead to seek a higher path, because violence is always a slippery slope as The Elite demonstrate. It's wonderful when they're icing super-villains in the street but when they assassinate world leaders and make jokes about it, that's naturally a step towards becoming fascists.

I liked "ALL STAR SUPERMAN" very much, and while this piece seemed to re-use music from "SUPERMAN: DOOMSDAY" (much as "JUSTICE LEAGUE: DOOM" borrowed music from "JUSTICE LEAGUE: CO2E") and the animation was fairly generic at best, it is the story and acting which make this one something to behold. After all, "BATMAN: GOTHAM KNIGHTS" was glorious to look at but was only about sub-par in terms of writing (half the reason I still own mine is for the commentary track), so there is something to be said for the other way around. While "ALL-STAR SUPERMAN" showcased how brilliant Superman could be, this one manages to showcase that along with quite a few awesome power moments.

While the character models and hum drum animation quality are a noteworthy demerit, everything else about this feature is excellent and proves that staying power of the original one-shot story. George Newbern's performance as Superman here is among the most notable in his tenure on the role, which is saying a lot. It also is good to see "newer" villains like Manchester Black appear in alternate media now and again to avoid the routine of seeing the same 2-4 Superman villains endlessly in animation. If one wants a great Superman story and is willing to overlook some issues with the animation, this one's a keeper. It certainly is the most harrowing one since "BATMAN: UNDER THE RED HOOD". As much as everyone seems to like Tim Daly voicing Superman - and I certainly do - it's performances like this which usually have me always look forward to the next time Newbern is the man of steel.
 
Thundercrack85 said:
The thing about these movies is, while I enjoy (some of) them. It's really nothing you can't do in a show, like say Justice League (in the style, that is). They're fairly short. The animation quality isn't terrible, but it's not all that much better than an animated show with a decent budget either. But you can't put any of these films on the silver screen.

So really, I'd rather have a good animated show, incorporating these stories, than animated movies.
Click to expand...

Well, they are doing that too (the animated shows), but I think this is their opportunity to look at other properties while also featuring their most popular franchises in some classic comic book story lines of the past. I doubt that at $1 million per episode (for a 13 to 26 episode season) that they would have been willing to explore a Wonder Woman cartoon series when they could have spent $3.5 million and got a one shot DTV feature film.
 
While I don't think it should be used as an argument against the DTV movies, a DC TV series that is meant purely for comic to tv adaptations would be a genius idea, IMO.

Have each episode adapt a famous comic issue. You could spend 13 episodes on The Long Halloween, then the next 8 on Blackest Night, then the next 5 on Flashpoint, etc.

I think a concept like that could pick up, and retain, viewers pretty easily.
 
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