Superman vs. The Elite (DC Universe movie)

[dnno1]

While I don't think it should be used as an argument against the DTV movies, a DC TV series that is meant purely for comic to tv adaptations would be a genius idea, IMO.

Have each episode adapt a famous comic issue. You could spend 13 episodes on The Long Halloween, then the next 8 on Blackest Night, then the next 5 on Flashpoint, etc.

I think a concept like that could pick up, and retain, viewers pretty easily.

You are saying to run the series based on story arcs. You still have a judgement call to make base on your budget. You've not proposed a story arch for "The Long Halloween" that will cost around $13 million vs. a 75 minute DTV that would cost $3.5 million to $5 million. You've also got to sell that to the suits to get it green-lit. As it turns out, we are getting "Flashpoint" as the next DTV after "The Dark Knight Returns", so I guess that judgement has been made.

 

[BlueLightning]

Good read Dread! I enjoy very much reading your reviews.

 

[Dread]

Good read Dread! I enjoy very much reading your reviews.

Thanks.

 

[spider-neil]

Great review, Dread.



Amazing movie, DC. but c'mon, isn't it time to give Flash some love?

 

[Micromind]

Since the next animated DTV movie is Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns in two parts, and then the next DTV could be Superman as the MOS is coming out in June 2013, so other DC heroes like Flash will get a chance after that.

It is a long wait.

 

[dnno1]

From what I understand, the cat was let out of the bag that "Flashpoint" would be one of the next ones out next year. I would presume that part 2 of "The Dark Knight Returns" will come out next year as well. There might be another film in the works that hasn't been mentioned. Maybe we will find out at ComiCon.

 

[biggles2000uk]

Since the next animated DTV movie is Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns in two parts, and then the next DTV could be Superman as the MOS is coming out in June 2013, so other DC heroes like Flash will get a chance after that.

It is a long wait.

thought flashpoint was confirmed as the next film?

 

[CConn]

You are saying to run the series based on story arcs. You still have a judgement call to make base on your budget. You've not proposed a story arch for "The Long Halloween" that will cost around $13 million vs. a 75 minute DTV that would cost $3.5 million to $5 million.

But you don't look at it like that. You don't go to WB and say, "hey, instead of making a 5 million dollar movie, I want to make a 13 million dollar one.

No, you pitch it like a TV series like any other TV series. Compare it to Justice League Unlimited or The Batman - "the suits" already know they'll be paying a million dollars an episode, it's not a big deal. They happily green light new shows every couple of years to keep their properties viable and keep CartoonNetwork's rating's up. You'd just need to convince them that the viewers would be open to that kind of long running story arcs, and that it could maintain its ratings.

You've also got to sell that to the suits to get it green-lit.

I'll also have to put on shoes before I to to meet with "the suits". Are there any other painfully obvious facts you'd like to point out?

As it turns out, we are getting "Flashpoint" as the next DTV after "The Dark Knight Returns", so I guess that judgement has been made.

I'm aware, I was just using it as an example.

 

[craigdbfan]

I saw this last night and really loved it. Poignant theme with marvelous voice acting from George Newbern and the rest of the cast.

The animation didn't bother me because it was sort of a trade off. Sure the designs were a bit simple and the detailing wasn't all that impressive most of the time but the movement and the level of spectacle they were able to achieve because of that was well worth it.

This was one of the best portrayal of Superman that we've had in a while when it came to both powers and his personal philosophy being unwavering in the face of adversity.

 

[Lencho01]

I'm probably part of the handful of people who like Newbern more than Daly.

I agree about the use of his powers in this one. I really enjoyed the scene with him the jets.

I hope MOS treats his character and powers similar to this film.

 

[Batgort]

i think the animation style paid homage to some of the older comic styles of the 80s and 90s, which i was okay with. Having grown up with Timmverse, it is very hard not to see his influence in animation unless they veer very far off course (e.g. Batman Gotham knight). But, I'm generally okay with that and enjoy it all the same. It felt like a S:TAS movie, meaning good ole superman story telling, but with a lighter animation and a darker theme and ending. The juxtaposition of that i think visually followed the ultimate storyline and spectacle at the end.

 

[BigThor]

I'm probably part of the handful of people who like Newbern more than Daly.

I agree about the use of his powers in this one. I really enjoyed the scene with him the jets.

I hope MOS treats his character and powers similar to this film.

You can count me in as being in that category as well.

 

[Nathan]

Not a fan of the art as well, but as for the story, this is easily one of the best Animated Movies DC has put out.

 

[Lencho01]

You can count me in as being in that category as well.

Cool. One thing I noticed is that when Newbern voices Superman, it's more like a more polite/idealistic version while Daly tends to voice a more no nonsense/less idealistic version of Superman.

 

[Panthro]

Cool. One thing I noticed is that when Newbern voices Superman, it's more like a more polite/idealistic version while Daly tends to voice a more no nonsense/less idealistic version of Superman.

You know, I'd never really thought of that before, although now that you bring it up that could be because Newbern's voice is a little softer than Daly's. Not that sounding a little softer in pitch stops Newbern from sounding scary as Hell when he pretends to go insane.

 

[Lencho01]

You know, I'd never really thought of that before, although now that you bring it up that could be because Newbern's voice is a little softer than Daly's. Not that sounding a little softer in pitch stops Newbern from sounding scary as Hell when he pretends to go insane.

Yeah, I just thought it was interesting when looking back at the different versions they've both voiced over the years. Daly tends to get a more authoritative Superman who sometimes has an attitude. Newbern did get a little bit of that when Superman dealt with Luthor, Darkseid, or Brainiac.

 

[Panthro]

Yeah, I just thought it was interesting when looking back at the different versions they've both voiced over the years. Daly tends to get a more authoritative Superman who sometimes has an attitude. Newbern did get a little bit of that when Superman dealt with Luthor, Darkseid, or Brainiac.

And this is why we need Tim Daly and George Newbern to play the Earth-1 Superman and Earth-2 Superman some day. The combined awesomeness would be mind-blowing!

Another funny thing I noticed - back in the DCAU Tim Daly was the solo Superman while George Newbern was the Ensemble Justice League Superman. This past year, Tim Daly finally got to play Superman in an Ensemble Justice League adventure with "Justice League: DOOM" and George Newbern finally got a solo Superman story to himself. Just an observation.

 

[CConn]

People talk about the most boringest things when they talk about Superman.

The JL: Doom thread had like 8 pages of talking about Superman's relative powerset in all of his various appearances, and now we're imagining Superman voice actor orgy movies.

 

[Lencho01]

It doesn't sound like a bad idea to me. If Spider-Man and Batman can have shows and/or video games with at least two versions together, I see no problems with Superman doing it.

 

[Blue Hero]

Well, I watched Superman vs The Elite. Wow, what a ride. I've been anticipating this movie for a long time, having waiting since S:TAS and JL to see a Superman in animation that emphasized his humanity, relationship with Lois, moral code etc., in the sorta' John Byrne-esque way I love. As things got closer, it looked like it might be the ultimate Superman story for me.

Well, was it? Read on.

Spoiler

THE GOOD

THE CHARACTERS: I love Superman, Lois and all the gang, and always thought that The Elite were cool characters. The story took the characters that I love and let them be themselves and used them in cool ways. I was always partial to Superman and Lois being partners in crime-fighting, and now we get to see that in animation. I've always liked seeing Superman confront people who were cynical of his worldview, and we got that. Pa Kent was a alive and able to advise Clark, as he should be. As I said, it was the characters as I like them doing the things I like seeing them do. That's what made me excited about the movie, and that was worth buying it for.

THE DIALOGUE: Seeing these characters interact wouldn't be half as fun, however, if they weren't written well. But the dialogue here was, without question, superb. From Clark and Lois conversation at the beginning, to the Senator's saying he's "a big fan" of Superman, to the tangent about "psychic blocks" was brilliant, subtle and hilarious. I laughed out loud many times, but never so I was taken out of the dark story.

THE STORY: Superman, at his core, is a character based on morality. The point of Batman is that he's a normal man who does so much. The point of Superman is an extraordinary man who does so little. He could reshape and fix the world. He could become Darkside on steroids. But he would probably be a really good dictator that we wouldn't actually mind having and who really would create a just society. He could even just become a multimillionaire with a new woman in bed every night. But he doesn't do any of that. Instead, he just lives like an ordinary citizen and lets people do what they want, unless they try to hurt someone else, in which case he preforms an legal citizen's arrest. In fact, what he does is exactly what is described as the role of government the American constitution--let people alone unless they don't let other people alone. This is why I think the phrase, "The American Way" is still valid.

This is a great story because it gets at this point of the character. All the best stories do this. They take what makes this character this character and challenge it, push it, make the character really decide if they are that character or not. That story did this. That is why it rocks.

THE VOICES: I'm am one of those who loves George Newbern's Superman voice. The reason people like Kevin's voice for Batman is it is so human while being just over-the-top enough to be obviously distinctive and branded in your memory, and that's what George does with Superman. His Superman is subtle and gentle while seeming boy-scoutish and powerful. Lois and Manchester were incredibly worthy of starring opposite him as well, what with her subtle but snarky/raspy voice contrasting with her hubby, and Manchester being over-the-top clownish and expressive but still empathetic.

THE BAD

THE ANIMATION: It's beating a dead horse to say you're not crazy about the animation--but I'm actually okay with the style. I just wasn't happy it was so sloppy in some places. There were several places where--Superman, more than anyone else--looked incredibly off-model. But the movie was good enough to compensate for that.

THE PACING: I remember Geoff Johns saying that Richard Donner had told him to move the landing of Zod's son in Last Son to earlier in the story because that was "THE story". As much as I'm usually the "slow-beginning" king, I think they should have had Superman's conflict with The Elite get much more intense earlier on. The Elite as the bad guys are the selling-point of the story but took too long to get there. They could have had Superman have an initial fight with them that he lost before the final one at the end which I think would've been really effective. Now, I haven't read the original comic, so I'm not sure how it was handled in that. All I can say is how it came off in the movie.

MESSAGE MISSTEPS: This is where things get dicey. A moral message that alludes to modern politics in a 71 minute animated movie has to by necessity be simultaneously both complex and simplistic. There is simply not enough time get at all the nuances. Still, you are obligated to not give a send a wrong moral message or impression about the state of the modern world. I think they did that a couple times. The metaphors for Israel and Palestine were portrayed as equally villainous--forgivable, since they were loose metaphors--if they had not described the Israel stand-in as "building settlements" on the other state's land--a vary particular claim in the Israeli-Palistinian conflict that is false. They are building on land they won in a war a ways back. Regardless how you feel about it, those are two very different things.

Second, they described Superman's moral code two ways and portrayed them as the same thing: A) Don't place yourself above the law. B) Don't kill ever in any circumstances. The first is clearly true and absolutely what Superman stands for. The second was brought out in Manchester's cryptic remark to Superman that the US kills people "all the time". Now, it's one thing to say that people shouldn't make themselves a law unto themselves, but when you start saying that governments should never kill you are saying something entirely different. Is the movie saying we should have no military? No death penalty? No drone strikes on terrorists? It doesn't say. They probably were talking about the particular terror policies of the past 10+ years. But regardless, those are complex policy applications that we can all debate while still believing in what Superman stands for. They made it seem that believing in Superman's moral code was the same thing as believing in their political policies.

(As an aside, they made a distracting partisan jab that conservatives--I.E. the Oreilly talk show host stand-in--would totally be in favor of The Elite because they supported Bush's terror policies. That, I think is deceptive, because American conservatives typically trust domestic %##-kickers more than multinational %##-kickers--E.G., America over the UN. They would probably be more like they portrayed if Superman did that to terrorists than a British dude--and certainly they'd be miffed if anyone did that to Israel. Not necessarily more flattering of conservatives, but more accurate of their mindset.)

THE VIOLENCE: The story necessitated violence, and some gore was to be expected, but I think they crossed the line a couple times in what I like in my movies. I think particularly the bleeding out of the eyes didn't sit well with me. But that's just me.

So, all-in-all, not a perfect Superman movie, but as darn near close as I've ever gotten, and a really great addition to my collection. Well done DC/WB.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Let me start of my review by saying a couple of things:

1.) I have never read Action Comics #775 and frankly have no real intention of tracking it down... so source material means little to me here.

2.) I don't paticularly care for politics. I keep myself updated to a degree but with no overbearing interest or allegiances of any kind.

3.) This is perhaps the first DC DVD that I wasn't all that excited about. The story sounded interesting but everything else got a shoulder shrug from me. (Except the return of Newbern. I was quite happy about that).



So I stuck it in the Blu-ray player yesterday, with no real expectation and... I was pleasantly surprised. More than pleasantly surprised actually.

Story: As I said the story sounded interesting, but I was worried that it was going to get a little preachy and allegorical but Kelley managed to keep it at a respectable level. He clearly understands the characters and explored their dynamics pretty well for the runtime. Manchester Black was a great villian (Charismatic but despicable at the same time) and the other three were fun visual fodder.

I really like how he handled Superman (this is the way he should be handled in the 21st Century). He had a strengh to him throughout the story and I believed strongly in his conflict. I was on his side the whole way through. A great thought-provoking and surprisingly touching tale.

Voice-acting: This movie was lacking the great Andrea Romano (thank God shes back for TDKR) with the voice director duties being performed by Dawn Hershey. While I've never heard of her she did a pretty good job filling out the cast. This was George Newbern's BEST performance as the Man of Steel since he started the gig over 10 years ago. He finally got to sink his teeth into something a little more meaty. It's funny to think the was merely thought of as the sub-standard replacement for Tim Daly back in 2001... he's come a long way and deserves ALOT of praise.

Pauley Perrette has a great spunky Margot Kidder-ish voice for Lois and it was nice to hear something alone those lines. She doesn't get to do alot and is very much the 'worried wife' for most of the piece. As good and I guess as serviceable as she was I kept thinking, ''Man I would really like to hear Dana Delany again!''.

Robin Atkin Downes did a great job and at times threatened to steal the movie but he was a little inconsistent with the accent so that docked him a few points. Everyone else was fine... like, Fred Tatasciore was a good Perry but I wouldn't clamor for him to return any time soon.

Animation: This is the movies biggest downfall. Not neccesarily because its overly bad but because I feel many won't give the movie a chance because of how it looks. These are not my favorite character designs and frankly they don't always work in motion. I don't know what they were going for but I don't think it worked 100%. The animation itself was fluid and dynamic enough... but certainly not the best WB/DC have produced. Overall I was satisfied with the look (And I actually liked it more than Doom. Go figure)

Music: A quick shout out to Robert J Kral. He did a great job with this movie and it was nice to hear the Doomsday motifs/themes again. I always get the feeling the composers on these things are ridiculously rushed and he always manages to produce great stuff.

I also enjoyed the funky opening titles and the Superman Adventure cartoon. t:

I honestly think that, despite it flaws, this is the best animated Superman movie from this DVD line. It's compelling, thought-provoking, emotional and action packed.

The guys involved really pulled off what I think will be an under-appreciated gem of a movie here and one of the best in the DC Comics Premiere Movie line.

8/10

 

[Micromind]

When I saw the trailers, I was severely unimpressed with animation for this movie, but to my surprise I did not found that distracting or ugly as the movie progressed, it sort of grows as the movie progresses.

It helps the movie to create a different space for itself, if that makes any sense.

 

[CConn]

No, it does.

I think it gives the movie a more classic, '50s feel that is a good visual contrast to the whole story of the film.

 

[BigThor]

No, it does.

I think it gives the movie a more classic, '50s feel that is a good visual contrast to the whole story of the film.

Agreed

 

[spider-neil]

When the writing is strong and powerful then I don't mind the art style at all.
Spectaular Spider-man looked very cartoon but the writing was excellent.