The Dark Knight TDK Casting Sides

[Agentsands77]

You do have the whole point about the "2" gimmick. I just don't think it fits Two-Face as I know him or as he's ever been portrayed in the comics. This is a far cry from THE LONG HALLOWEEN's Two-Face, whose obsession was over justice and its sides: innocence and guilt.

I wouldn't like a Two-Face who would be willing to murder innocent people for the heck of it.

 

[Anjow1060]

Yeah, i'm interested in Joker going after the people of Gotham a couple differant times during the movies, either few people or the masses and as it goes on,

1) Batman makes a bigger/better stop on Joker's plans.
2) Because of this Joker gets more and more obsessed with Bats.
3) The final showdown is a trap set by Joker for Batman because he's so interested in him and pained by his interference all the time.

 

[BmAaTn3625]

Looking at the bank robbery scene that we pretty much all agree is the Joker when he kills the bank manager, I believe that will be how the movie starts off. I think it will be the tie in from BB to TDK. At the end Gordon gives the speech about the new criminal doing a robbery double homocide. I just get the feeling that may be how the movie opens

 

[Agentsands77]

Furthermore, Anjow, I think such a crime doesn't fit with the Harvey quotes they're getting. The dinner scene with Wayne/Natasha/Dent/Gilda establishes Dent's inner conflict, and it's the same as THE LONG HALLOWEEN's Dent:

"When people just stand by and watch the scum take over - the law is already a secondary consideration."

"A Kingdom under siege always selects one man to protect his people. It his duty. His honor. And when he's victorious, power is passed onto a successor who will take up his mantle."

It's that same "do what must be done" conflict he faces from THE LONG HALLOWEEN, and the fulfilment of that angle isn't a SAW-like ferry puzzle. It's more like the steps he takes in THE LONG HALLOWEEN and DARK VICTORY or BATMAN ANNUAL #14.

In fact, I doubt we'll see much of Two-Face in THE DARK KNIGHT. Sure, we may get some scenes towards the end of the film with him, but this film seems so crowded that I think most of the Dent/Two-Face screentime will be him as Dent, establishing his character. I don't think we'll see any master plot from Two-Face until BB3.

 

[Anjow1060]

Agentsands77

Furthermore, Anjow, I think such a crime doesn't fit with the Harvey quotes they're getting. The dinner scene with Wayne/Natasha/Dent/Gilda establishes Dent's inner conflict, and it's the same as THE LONG HALLOWEEN's Dent:

"When people just stand by and watch the scum take over - the law is already a secondary consideration."

"A Kingdom under siege always selects one man to protect his people. It his duty. His honor. And when he's victorious, power is passed onto a successor who will take up his mantle."

It's that same "do what must be done" conflict he faces from THE LONG HALLOWEEN, and the fulfilment of that angle isn't a SAW-like ferry puzzle. It's more like the steps he takes in THE LONG HALLOWEEN and DARK VICTORY or BATMAN ANNUAL #14.

In fact, I doubt we'll see much of Two-Face in THE DARK KNIGHT. Sure, we may get some scenes towards the end of the film with him, but this film seems so crowded that I think most of the Dent/Two-Face screentime will be him as Dent, establishing his character. I don't think we'll see any master plot from Two-Face until BB3.

Well, I see ur point. But they could also play up a whole Harvey trying to see if other people are strong enough to "do what must be done" = in regards to them deciding if they'll take out the prisoners. And based on their judgement he'll decide if they're worthy of being protected. Idk, just a thought.

Looking at the bank robbery scene that we pretty much all agree is the Joker when he kills the bank manager, I believe that will be how the movie starts off. I think it will be the tie in from BB to TDK. At the end Gordon gives the speech about the new criminal doing a robbery double homocide. I just get the feeling that may be how the movie opens

GENIUS! Wonderfull thoughts. Right along my thoughts about the cops being crazy and the need for the national gaurd. I think that Begins has had more of an affect on TDK than we realize.

 

[Agentsands77]

Well, I see ur point. But they could also play up a whole Harvey trying to see if other people are strong enough to "do what must be done" = in regards to them deciding if they'll take out the prisoners. And based on their judgement he'll decide if they're worthy of being protected. Idk, just a thought.

But I mean, think about it from this perspective: This film is 2:30 long, and with the Joker robbing and murdering, all the Maroni stuff, the vigilante stuff, the visit to Hong Kong (whatever role that plays), and all that nonsense, we're looking at a film that's crammed with story. If anything, there's no room for Two-Face to have a huge plan like this - there's only room for him to pursue his immediate goals (which would be justice upon Salvatore Maroni).

This plan seems so epic and sadistic that I really think it could only be linked to the Joker.

GENIUS! Wonderfull thoughts. Right along my thoughts about the cops being crazy and the need for the national gaurd. I think that Begins has had more of an affect on TDK than we realize.

Well, I had thought of that before, but discarded the idea considering that the dialogue indicates the Joker has a reputation by the time that robbery occurs.

 

[Rory gets laid]

Hey, all! First-time poster, but I've been cruising for a while...


I just finally figured out that Chuckles is actually Mister J:

"...Less guys. Larger shares..." *BANG!*

Same tone, and tendency as, "It's rude to stare..." if you ask me...

Kinda reminds me of the scene where the two crooks were discussing the "giant bat" at the beginning of B'89 -- remember? "Johnny Nobbs got ripped and took a walk off the roof, a'ight...no big loss." t:

The Joker is pretending to be a random thug, talking about the guy "running the show, who thinks he can sit back and still get his share." Mista J uses this guy Grumpy as an example of just how cold and calculated he really is...leading up to, "Call it a hunch..."


What do you guys think?


Also, I think a good way to envision Nolan's/Ledger's interpretaion of the Joker would be to combine V from "V for Vendetta" with Jigsaw, and add a dash of Dr. Lecter, and a sprinkle of Tim Curry's "It" ...

 

[Agentsands77]

Chuckles being Mista J is entirely possible.

 

[Rory gets laid]

And does the prisoner in the "Stephens" scene seem a little like Crane to anyone else?


I just want to take a second to thank those who made this available to us, and esp. to the fella who reposted in word...you guys rock!

 

[JL Unlimited]

I could be wrong but I think they were casting for both Grumpy and Chuckles...so Chuckles can't be the Joker.

 

[Agentsands77]

And does the prisoner in the "Stephens" scene seem a little like Crane to anyone else?

I think it's safely the Joker. We get this description:

THE PRISONER sits, smiling, content.

That seems like it's describing the Joker right there, especially with the contentment bit. And then we get this line of dialogue where the guard says he knows the prisoner will enjoy pain. That's not descriptive of Scarecrow, but that is definitely descriptive of the Joker.

And the comment about him killing six friends of the guard indicates some widespread manslaughter, and that also seems closer to Joker than Scarecrow, considering I doubt Scarecrow will be doing any widespread murder in THE DARK KNIGHT. I suppose it's possible, but I doubt it.

 

[Ryan227]

Wow leave for 6 hours of work and you guys go nutso, LOL. I think that the Prisoner is definitely the Joker but I think Chuckles is his own character but I hope his name isn't Chuckles.....

 

[Nepenthes]

The prisoner is the Joker.

Yeah, i'm interested in Joker going after the people of Gotham a couple differant times during the movies, either few people or the masses and as it goes on,

1) Batman makes a bigger/better stop on Joker's plans.
2) Because of this Joker gets more and more obsessed with Bats.
3) The final showdown is a trap set by Joker for Batman because he's so interested in him and pained by his interference all the time.

sounds very reasonable.


lots of good insight here from everyone. what a great thread.

 

[Fenrir]

I think "Memento" is pretty good assurance.

And 'The Prestige' as well. Words can't express how much I love that movie.

 

[Katsuro]

Yeah, but think of it in terms of 2. In some comics, 2F has just the evil side and a good side. And the coin determines which one wins. So if the good side wants to kill a bunch of criminals about to escape justice from sneaking out on a Ferry, and he has the oppertunity to kill them or not, the evil side of him would see it as unfair and would want to kill some good people instead.

See, but that's the problem right there. The good side wouldn't want to do any killing. It's not about kill good guys or kill bad guys, if anything it should be kill bad guys or dont kill bad guys.

 

[kenellard]

See, but that's the problem right there. The good side wouldn't want to do any killing. It's not about kill good guys or kill bad guys, if anything it should be kill bad guys or dont kill bad guys.

oh my aching head....

 

[regwec]

Lots of great ideas here, but lets not call each other n00bs, okay? I find that really tedious.

Looking at the bank robbery scene that we pretty much all agree is the Joker when he kills the bank manager, I believe that will be how the movie starts off. I think it will be the tie in from BB to TDK. At the end Gordon gives the speech about the new criminal doing a robbery double homocide. I just get the feeling that may be how the movie opens

A good point, and I hope you're right. It would be great to have some instant payoff, followed by some more exposition.

With the "city under siege" theme, is it possibly that the Nolans are drawing on the "No Man's Land" run?

 

[Ryan227]

No Man's Land was a good run IMO. Brought a different dynamic to the batfamily but would it work without the rest of them there to help Batman?

I can see Bats doing it alone with Dent and Gordon helping but I can't see it being to the scale of No Man's Land without the help of the rest of the Batfamily. He can't be everywhere at once you know!

 

[regwec]

Which is exactly what the "Son of Batman" type character tells him...

 

[Ryan227]

Yeah good call I didn't think of that...

 

[Agentsands77]

We haven't spent any time talking about Judge scene (it's not in the .doc packet that was compiled), where the Judge finds a threatening note... it seems Nolan has taken a page from BATMAN No. 1 and a certain Judge has found himself a target of the Joker.

 

[Nepenthes]

???

can someone post this scene^

 

[Maxwell Smart]

I'll give you a condescending sentance --- with 7 posts under your belt, you are a n00b. Idc how long u've lurked or w/e, n00bes have a history of saying stupid things without reading into what's been said already and just being plain ignoramus. Is it a sucky thing? Yep. But we've all had to go through it, so suck it up. Don't go around acting like u've got the answer. Not saying I do, but still. 7 posts doesn't help ur claim, it hurts it. Nothing against you personally, just ur status my friend.

I'm disappointed in you, Anjow. Trying to bring up someone's postcount as something against them? Thats rather lame and juvenile. And wasn't it you over on BOF who was talking about how immature people are here? Don't lower yourself to that level, man.

 

[Agentsands77]

Here are the judge pages (courtesy of StorminNorman):

 

[Carmine Falcone]

Ít looks like TDK will have a more complex script. There is so much going on.