Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Out of the Shadows - Part 1

[chamber-music]

My brother said that he is going to see the film. It's a shame they screwed up Casey from what I've read but I knew they would when they cast Amell. Seems like a nice fellow but he's a lack luster actor and bland to boot.

Amell said in a recent interview that he originally became an actor because he wanted to be rich and famous.

 

[Kyle]

I didn't grow up in the 80s, but the original Eastman & Laird Mirage comis remain my favorite version. I want an adaptation of the 80s dark & gritty Daredevil-inspired TMNT, I think it would even be cool if it were set in the 80s. That's My TMNT. But I doubt we'll ever get a real 80s TMNT (not the cartoon that toned the Turtles down) adaptation because of movies like 'Out of the Shadows' that reinforce the notion that Ninja Turtles can be nothing more than a dumb kids property. That's why I appreciate the show I grew up with ('03) because it showed that a more serious, faithful TMNT could work. Sure it wasn't bloody & grim like the Mirage comics but it definitely wasn't as corny as the FW show (which I respect for bringing the Turtles into mainstream).

And you keep sayin that I have to wait 20+ years for a faithful adaptation of the comics, but that's shouldn't be how things work. We should have gotten a more-balanced TMNT from the start.

Well, that is the first time I heard you saying you want an adaptation of the comics. Usually it's "03 cartoon way better than 80s/90s cartoon! Should be what's adapted." That plus, you only stated 'read' once when you stated "seen, read or watched any other form of TMNT" - noticeable emphasis, whether intentional or not, on seen/watch. Thus, it always came off more as just wanting a 03' version adaptation and not liking that you haven't got one yet.

So, bottom line is... the comics haven't been adapted because it's (80s/90s cartoon) the version of turtles that more people know. A lot of turtles fans don't even know there ever was a comic book. Most turtle merchandise even today, especially noticeable in apparel, is geared towards the 80s/90 cartoon fans for a reason: that's where a lot of the fanbase is while I don't think many if any original comics merchandise exists. This comes down to supply and demand principals.

As per 03', as said that's where it's gotta wait for the 00's to become retro to either get the 03' film you'd want or the 03' film you wanted, got, but doesn't align. With that, it's all a waiting game everyone has played for better or worse.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Amell said in a recent interview that he originally became an actor because he wanted to be rich and famous.

That explains a lot.

 

[harryoscop]

Well, that is the first time I heard you saying you want an adaptation of the comics. Usually it's "03 cartoon way better than 80s/90s cartoon! Should be what's adapted." That plus, you only stated 'read' once when you stated "seen, read or watched any other form of TMNT" - noticeable emphasis, whether intentional or not, on seen/watch.

So, bottom line is... the comics haven't been adapted because it's the version of turtles that more people know. A lot of turtles fans don't even know there ever was a comic book. Most turtle merchandise even today, especially noticeable in apparel, is geared towards the cartoon fans for a reason: that's where the key fanbase is.

As per 03', as said that's where it's gotta wait for the 00's to become retro to either get the 03' film you'd want or the 03' film you wanted, got, but doesn't match up. With that, it's all a waiting game everyone has played for better or worse.

It shouldn't have anything to do with the fact that that's what most kids grew with in the 80s-early 90s because nobody has taken a chance with a true Mirage adaptation movie/cartoon. I bet that's what people were saying about Batman before the dark Tim Burton film, that majority fanbase is a fan of the Adam West tv series despite it not being faithful to the source. WB was originally going to go that route with 89 before Burton came on board and proved a true-to-source Batman could work. They went back to Adam West with Forever & B&R but then Nolan came and made one of the most critically acclaimed CBMs of all time. Now telk me, which Batman has the largest fanbase now? All we see nowadays is a dark, brooding Batman. See what i'm saying? somebody has to take a chance and if it's great, the core fanbase will in fact change and become familiar with the dark TMNT.

And I already got a great 03 movie in TMNT (2007) which just so happens to be my second fav Turtles film behind the 1990 movie.

 

[Kyle]

The big difference is the Batman TV show was made in the 60s and was in large part a reflection of that time period. It was huge in it's first season, but greatly diminished in returns over time. It was gone in 3 years. Starting in the 70s and especially into the 80s the comics got a lot darker which became the prime Batman source that most teenagers and young adults knew, the 60s show fell out of favor even more among the masses. Thus - why the Batman film of that time period reflected the source material that most have come to know and love since that show ended.

However with the turtles, the 80s live action films were light hearted, the 80s/90s cartoon was light hearted, the 90s live action show was light hearted, and seeing the most recent incarnation - that show is... light hearted as well. Thus, a dark Turtles would only be what the comics fans (which majority of Turtles fans have no idea exist) and 00s' cartoon fans would be familiar with, while rubbing a lot of other people the wrong way because it would be seen as just trying to be hip and edgy. It's all about supply and demand.

Yeah -- while I didn't hate the 07' film, I consider it below the 80s films, below this film, and on par with the last film. Part of it was good, but the other monsters and villain did absolutely nothing for me.

 

[harryoscop]

Hopefully we get something like this one day:

 

[Kyle]

Hopefully we get something like this one day:

If that's what we got, I and I'm sure many others would complain as well that they went absurdly dark. Similarly to how people are complaining about having darker Superman stories. Some characters and properties, you do that to it and there would be a backlash.

If that's 03' cartoon-ish, meh, but you'll get it in the future at some point if it is.

 

[harryoscop]

If that's what we got, I and I'm sure many others would complain as well that they went absurdly dark. Similarly to how people are complaining about having darker Superman stories. Some characters and properties, you do that to it and there would be a backlash.

If that's 03' cartoon-ish, meh, but you'll get it in the future at some point if it is.

Why would you complain if you knew it were being faithful to the original comics as in how the Turtles were originally meant to be portrayed? I mean, absurdly dark? That's exactly the tone, the feel that the Mirage comics had. Ugh. That's what I thought they were going for in the first movie when this trailer dropped:

 

[Kyle]

Why would you complain if you knew it were being faithful to the original comics as in how the Turtles were originally meant to be portrayed? I mean, absurdly dark? That's exactly the tone, the feel that the Mirage comics had. Ugh.

Supply and demand. The turtles that caught on with fans and has stood the test of time is the family friendly TMNT. All versions of TMNT have been light hearted, with the exception of the 03' show which was the darkest and the comics that few know about in comparison. You'd be alienating the fans who know the turtles from the 80s/90s as well as the kids today who know the turtles from the cartoons that are out now which are also light hearted. Being more serious is one thing, being absurdly dark is another and many would complain over a more 'Spawn' version of TMNT.

In the original comics, Batman went around killing people and used a gun... we all saw how that played out. According to you that should be fine by everyone because that's remaining true to the original comics as well. While we're at it lets take away flight, Lex Luthor, and Kryptonite from Superman as well because that's true to the original comics also.

 

[harryoscop]

Supply and demand. The turtles that caught on with fans and has stood the test of time is the family friendly TMNT. All versions of TMNT have been light hearted, with the exception of the 03' show which was the darkest and the comics that few know about in comparison. You'd be alienating the fans who know the turtles from the 80s/90s as well as the kids today who know the turtles from the cartoons that are out now which are also light hearted. Being more serious is one thing, being absurdly dark is another and many would complain over a more 'Spawn' version of TMNT.

In the original comics, Batman went around killing people and used a gun... we all saw how that played out. According to you that should be fine by everyone because that's remaining true to the original comics as well. While we're at it lets take away flight, Lex Luthor, and Kryptonite from Superman as well because that's true to the original comics also.

Man of Steel was darker than mainstrean Superman and still made a boatload of cash and Superman fans were pissed off about it, tho, to be fair Supes is ingrained into pop-culture. But even then, TMNT was conceived to be gritty. And Kids won't give two ****s as long as it's entertaining & PG-13, they don't care as much if it's not goofy and cartoony, they'll see it because 'Ninja Turtles' The Dark Knight trilogy is my biggest example.

And I think the current IDW comics are darker than even 03'

 

[Kyle]

Man of Steel was darker than mainstrean Superman and still made a boatload of cash and Superman fans were pissed off about it, tho, to be fair Supes is ingrained into pop-culture. But even then, TMNT was conceived to be gritty. And Kids won't give two ****s as long as it's entertaining & PG-13, they don't care as much if it's not goofy and cartoony, they'll see it because 'Ninja Turtles' The Dark Knight trilogy is my biggest example.

And I think the current IDW comics are darker than even 03'

What you showed was a more 'Spawn' version of the turtles, which would rub the majority of people the wrong way. There was no witty banter, there was no brothers having fun being brothers, it was grim dark and didn't resemble the turtles that most people know at all. As said, there's a vast difference between being more serious and being basically 'Spawn' with a turtle.

The turtles are engrained in pop culture as well, not to the Superman level but enough to seriously piss people off if you basically make 'Spawn' and instead of Spawn feature human-like turtles and call it Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. In the future, now that the 90s film is finally here - I'd be fine with a more serious version of Turtles, but would have a stroke if anyone ever made as abysmal a translation as you showed in that clip on the silver screen because it's TMNT in turtle costume only. It's fine as an alternative universe fan take, but blasphemy if a film that's absurdly dark is made. Note: difference between more serious and absurdly dark by leaps and bounds.

'The Dark Knight' trilogy reflect the popular Jeph Loeb comics of the time. What you showed represents only the old comics and 03' cartoon (?), not what fans from the past are familiar with and absolutely nothing representing the cartoon that is popular with kids today. The IDW comics are more serious, but they're nowhere near grim dark. So, no, it's a horrible example since 'The Dark Knight' reflected how the majority of fans saw Batman when those films came out whereas 'Spawn Turtles' represents absolutely nothing that is out today.

 

[TheVileOne]

So to others who have seen it

Spoiler

Was the only one trying to scan krangs toy box for cameos

I tried but it was hard to make out any recognizable shapes.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

Man of Steel was darker than mainstrean Superman and still made a boatload of cash and Superman fans were pissed off about it, tho, to be fair Supes is ingrained into pop-culture. But even then, TMNT was conceived to be gritty. And Kids won't give two ****s as long as it's entertaining & PG-13, they don't care as much if it's not goofy and cartoony, they'll see it because 'Ninja Turtles' The Dark Knight trilogy is my biggest example.

And I think the current IDW comics are darker than even 03'

Agreed.

 

[Logan0327]

Amell said in a recent interview that he originally became an actor because he wanted to be rich and famous.

does'nt everybody lol stop acting like actors are some well renowned articulate artists lol they are people paid millions to play make believe

 

[harryoscop]

What you showed was a more 'Spawn' version of the turtles, which would rub the majority of people the wrong way. There was no witty banter, there was no brothers having fun being brothers, it was grim dark and didn't resemble the turtles that most people know at all. As said, there's a vast difference between being more serious and being basically 'Spawn' with a turtle.

You didn't see the brothers having fun or any witty banter because that was Raphael saving April from what I presume was a reimagined version of the Foot. That doesn't mean those elements would be absent from a full-feature adaptation.

The turtles are engrained in pop culture as well, not to the Superman level but enough to seriously piss people off if you basically make 'Spawn' and instead of Spawn feature human-like turtles and call it Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. In the future, now that the 90s film is finally here - I'd be fine with a more serious version of Turtles, but would have a stroke if anyone ever made as abysmal a translation as you showed in that clip on the silver screen because it's TMNT in turtle costume only.

Okay, first of all, the original Mirage TMNT PREDATE Spawn by 11 years, so if anything, Spawn would be ripping off TMNT which is ridiculous because a grim dark tone is not exclusive to any specific comic property or any form of media at all. And it wouldn't be Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 'in name only', just not the version you want (whuch is what you're getting now)

'The Dark Knight' trilogy reflect the popular Jeph Loeb comics of the time. What you showed represents only the old comics and 03' cartoon (?), not what fans from the past are familiar with and absolutely nothing representing the cartoon that is popular with kids today. The IDW comics are more serious, but they're nowhere near grim dark. So, no, it's a horrible example since 'The Dark Knight' reflected how the majority of fans saw Batman when those films came out whereas 'Spawn Turtles' represents absolutely nothing that is out today.

My point still stands, kids weren't familiar with the Joseph Loeb comics at the time (or any comics), they saw the movies because they had Batman in it, just like they saw Batman v Superman & Man of Steel for the same reason. They don't care about the tone. If a grim dark TMNT film came out, people would become familiar with the original comics.

 

[Kyle]

You didn't see the brothers having fun or any witty banter because that was Raphael saving April from what I presume was a reimagined version of the Foot. That doesn't mean those elements would be absent from a full-feature adaptation.

That is significantly different from what you showed.

Okay, first of all, the original Mirage TMNT PREDATE Spawn by 11 years, so if anything, Spawn would be ripping off TMNT which is ridiculous because a grim dark tone is not exclusive to any specific comic property or any form of media at all. And it wouldn't be Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 'in name only', just not the version you want (whuch is what you're getting now)

I beyond highly doubt the original turtle comics were darker than Spawn which if I recall were very controversial when they were out. As said and either you're really off course or can't understand a difference. There's a difference between absurdly dark and being more serious. There's a huge monumental difference between 'Spawn' and 'Man of Steel.' What you showed had absolutely no light elements in it - at all - and was prefaced without stating that there would be lighter elements in it. It reminded me to a degree of Batman's introduction scene in BvS.

My point still stands, kids weren't familiar with the Joseph Loeb comics at the time, they saw the movies because they had Batman in it, just like they saw Batman v Superman & Man of Steel for the same reason. They don't care about the tone. If a grim dark TMNT film came out, people would become familiar with the original comics.

If I had a kid, and what you showed was the trailer - there would be absolutely no way that I would bring a kid to it. A teenager? Yes. But the same kid audience that usually flocks to the turtles? Not even remotely, unless it gets significantly lighter than what you showed. So, would I feel comfortable bringing a 6-9 year old who loves the new turtle cartoon to that film? Not unless it's a lot lighter than what you showed. There's being serious, and there's being absurdly dark. 'Man of Steel' would be just "serious" as would the vast majority of comic book movies.

 

[Victarion]

What you showed was a more 'Spawn' version of the turtles, which would rub the majority of people the wrong way. There was no witty banter, there was no brothers having fun being brothers, it was grim dark and didn't resemble the turtles that most people know at all. As said, there's a vast difference between being more serious and being basically 'Spawn' with a turtle.

The turtles are engrained in pop culture as well, not to the Superman level but enough to seriously piss people off if you basically make 'Spawn' and instead of Spawn feature human-like turtles and call it Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. In the future, now that the 90s film is finally here - I'd be fine with a more serious version of Turtles, but would have a stroke if anyone ever made as abysmal a translation as you showed in that clip on the silver screen because it's TMNT in turtle costume only. It's fine as an alternative universe fan take, but blasphemy if a film that's absurdly dark is made. Note: difference between more serious and absurdly dark by leaps and bounds.

'The Dark Knight' trilogy reflect the popular Jeph Loeb comics of the time. What you showed represents only the old comics and 03' cartoon (?), not what fans from the past are familiar with and absolutely nothing representing the cartoon that is popular with kids today. The IDW comics are more serious, but they're nowhere near grim dark. So, no, it's a horrible example since 'The Dark Knight' reflected how the majority of fans saw Batman when those films came out whereas 'Spawn Turtles' represents absolutely nothing that is out today.

No, the original Eastman and Laird Turtles had better plots and stuff than Spawn. This is coming from someone whose childhood comics were exclusively Spawn. I've got a copy of IDW's reissue of the first volume of the original Eastman and Laird TMNT comics (coffee table sized books, but its nice to have the stories in one place); nothing here really jumps out as grimdark.

Can you specify what strikes you as grimdark in the old comics? They're in black and white, but really they're silly as hell.

 

[Kyle]

No, the original Eastman and Laird Turtles had better plots and stuff than Spawn. This is coming from someone whose childhood comics were exclusively Spawn. I've got a copy of IDW's reissue of the first volume of the original Eastman and Laird TMNT comics (coffee table sized books, but its nice to have the stories in one place); nothing here really jumps out as grimdark.

Can you specify what strikes you as grimdark in the old comics? They're in black and white, but really they're silly as hell.

Exactly. Serious, but not grim dark. From what I know, it was largely a satire of the heroic properties that were out at that time.

I wasn't talking about the comics at all. I was talking about the clip the member posted of a fan vid that basically presented Raphael at the end as a lurking phantom that scared April for several moments then stalked away. That in combination with how it was shot didn't bring Turtles to mind at all, but rather going absurdly dark with it like the apocalyptic fan Power Rangers video.

 

[Victarion]

Lol that's hilarious. I really liked the situation presented in the 90's movie where most of the Foot Clan grunts were just runaways.

So who is the main villain in this one? I thought it was Krang, but someone mentioned a General?

 

[Kyle]

Lol that's hilarious. I really liked the situation presented in the 90's movie where most of the Foot Clan grunts were just runaways.

So who is the main villain in this one? I thought it was Krang, but someone mentioned a General?

That was, and is still, awesome to me. It's my favorite TMNT film. The second is kind of like the second TMNT film, if they were allowed to use Bebop and Rocksteady instead of the replacements they went with (due to copyright I think...).

As for villain...

Spoiler

The main villain is Shredder with Krang in it early on then towards the end with hints of Krang coming back.

 

[harryoscop]

That is significantly different from what you showed.



I beyond highly doubt the original turtle comics were darker than Spawn which if I recall were very controversial when they were out. As said and either you're really off course or can't understand a difference. There's a difference between absurdly dark and being more serious. There's a huge monumental difference between 'Spawn' and 'Man of Steel.' What you showed had absolutely no light elements in it - at all - and was prefaced without stating that there would be lighter elements in it.

To be fair, I haven't read any Spawn comics but I have heard about how dark they are. Splinter turned out to be a kind-of a-hole because he raised the Turtles soley to take revenge on Shredder for him killing Hamato Yoshi in his home. The original comic was a tale of revenge, and Leo actually cut off Shredder's head and the Turtles actually used their weapons (although they tried not to kill them, Leo wouldn't have a problem cutting off an arm if neccasary). Casey Jones was sociopathic who brutally killed criminals (something him and Raph butted heads over) and the Foot were extremely violent. (like the clip) Obviously, a lot of that stuff would have to be toned for the movie but I'd like the spirit to remain intact. And yeah, the Turtles were still fun but definitely more serious Ninjas, particularly Leo. "We are Ninjas, we strike hard then fade away into the night." Love that line from Leo in the first issue.

If I had a kid, and what you showed was the trailer - there would be absolutely no way that I would bring a kid to it. A teenager? Yes. But the same kid audience that usually flocks to the turtles? Not even remotely, unless it gets significantly lighter than what you showed. So, would I feel comfortable bringing a 6-9 year old who loves the new turtle cartoon to that film? Not unless it's a lot lighter than what you showed. There's being serious, and there's being absurdly dark. 'Man of Steel' would be just "serious" as would the vast majority of comic book movies.

But that's just one scene to establish the rough nature of the movie. I guess would I'm saying is a 'Man of Steel' serious tone is what I would go for.

 

[Victarion]

Any hints at the Triceratons? I love that arc in the old comics.

 

[Kyle]

The original comic was a tale of revenge, and Leo actually cut off Shredder's head and the Turtles actually used their weapons (although they tried not to kill them, Leo wouldn't have a problem cutting off an arm if neccasary). Casey Jones was sociopathic who brutally killed criminals

That? No freaking way. As an adult seeing the new films become that? Would be blasphemy to me. However, now in the future a more serious take that is significantly toned down from decapitating, arm cutting, murderous turtles would be okay. Despite the original comics having that, I'd still say it was designed more as a satire of the very dark nature comics were taking on at the time. This was the time of 'The Dark Knight Returns,' 'The Death of Superman,' 'The Watchmen,' 'Sin City,' and a lot of other Alan Moore and Frank Miller comics. Maybe that's lost in translation sometimes when not taking into account when those comics came out, but I doubt they were meant to be taken as very serious and dark rather than as a comical satire reflecting how dark comic books have become at that time. Out of context, it's dark - in context and looking at that time, it's a funny commentary (basically what Deadpool was to today's modern comic book movies). Whereas Spawn, at least to my knowledge, isn't even remotely satirical.

Any hints at the Triceratons? I love that arc in the old comics.

Spoiler

No. But there are hints of Dimension X becoming involved which might also include alternate dimensions and planetary travel with it.

 

[harryoscop]

A more serious version of TMNT's tone (2007) would be suited for a PG-13 film. Or even BvS's tone.

 

[Kyle]

A more serious version of TMNT's tone (2007) would be suited for a PG-13 film. Or even BvS's tone.

BvS is way too dark for turtles and would need a seriously better villain than the 2007 film (that's where it severely fell apart for me). The only reason BvS is as dark as it was is because they purposefully set out to make the darkest superhero film they possibly could so Justice League would look leaps and bounds lighter by comparison (from interviews). If a serious route is taken in the future it should only be as serious as all of the other superhero films that are out today, that means - yes - I'd accept Nolan level. BvS was as dark as it was due to the story and due to their intents with it (making it as dark as they possibly could). A live action adaptation of the comics, I'm sure would be more akin to Deadpool (albeit R, both serve the same satirical purpose and drive).