Terminator Salvation: Review Central

[Warhammer]

This just came to me. And it might seem overly complex but... maybe Skynet wants to keep Kyle alive so that IT can send him back to 1984 to protect Sarah Connor.

Skynet knows that Judgment Day will always happen, and it also knows that without the Kyle and T-800 face-off at Cyberdyne factory, Skynet will never be (or never found). So ensuring both its existence and victory in the future, the only thing Skynet figured could work is luring and killing Connor in 2018 and keeping Kyle alive until 2029.

Here's the thing. If John Connor is killed in 2018, then he is not important and not the leader of the Resistance nor defeats Skynet. That means that if Kyle Reese somehow happens to have to be sent back to 2029, why will he need to protect Sarah Connor in 1984 since John Connor didn't make a difference in the future? What will be the excuse for Reese protecting Sarah Connor? Kate Connor or anyone else telling Reese to lie about how great John Connor used to be does not benefit the Resistance of the future in anyway.

Of course, the big issue is that since John Connor is dead, who knows if the Resistance will win the war, let alone conveniently by 2029.

 

[Carnotaur3]

Here's the thing. If John Connor is killed in 2018, then he is not important and not the leader of the Resistance nor defeats Skynet. That means that if Kyle Reese somehow happens to have to be sent back to 2029, why will he need to protect Sarah Connor in 1984 since John Connor didn't make a difference in the future? What will be the excuse for Reese protecting Sarah Connor? Kate Connor or anyone else telling Reese to lie about how great John Connor used to be does not benefit the Resistance of the future in anyway.

Of course, the big issue is that since John Connor is dead, who knows if the Resistance will win the war, let alone conveniently by 2029.

It's not supposed to benefit Connor or the Resistance. It's supposed to benefit Skynet. Without Skynet being found in that factory in 1984, it will cease to exist. And in order to ensure that existence, Kyle must be sent back on a mission. I don't know what Skynet would have told Kyle. What ultimatum or trivial issue it would have presented him in order for him to do it. Maybe Skynet would have told him that Connor was important, and that he was supposed to defeat them. And maybe Kyle, wanting so bad for Skynet to be defeated, tried to do the right thing and protect Sarah Connor.

But if Skynet doesn't know Kyle is John's father, then Connor will never be because Kyle will not receive the picture and develop the love/obsession with her.

 

[Grievous]

this movie made me think of Spider-man 3 but with a better final fight. It was mostly action with a plot that didn't explain much and jumped from location without a warning. I give it a 5 only for good action. Honest I see this movie as a popcorn flick to watch with family or friends, nothing more.

Spoiler

me and my brother was talking about this after the movie. Why didn't the T-800 just ripe the mini-gun off the T-600 and kill everyone then to just break him in half.

Won't lie it was not that great of a movie.

 

[DACMAN]

This just came to me. And it might seem overly complex but... maybe Skynet wants to keep Kyle alive so that IT can send him back to 1984 to protect Sarah Connor.

Skynet knows that Judgment Day will always happen, and it also knows that without the Kyle and T-800 face-off at Cyberdyne factory, Skynet will never be (or never found). So ensuring both its existence and victory in the future, the only thing Skynet figured could work is luring and killing Connor in 2018 and keeping Kyle alive until 2029.

What does Reese have to do with Cyberdyne getting the parts of the first T-800? Why would they need Reese for that? Just send one back. Actually, with Reese out of the way they can simply send the T-800 to Miles Dyson's door.

You guys are really grasping at staws to justify bad writting.

 

[nathaniel]

Just watched this, Sam Worthington made this movie for me! , He stole the show, I can't believe I found Bale boring, annoying and flat, and I used to love him

Bale CAN be great at times but i stand by my claims made yonks ago that he has been on largely autopilot since American Psycho which was OSCAR WORTHY stuff imo.

He is stuck in brooding shouting mode far to often for my liking these days COME ON BALE do a romantic comedy, a comedy or something that takes you out of that bubble it will do you a world of good.

 

[Eric Brooks]

COME ON BALE do a romantic comedy, a comedy or something that takes you out of that bubble it will do you a world of good.

no, no, no

this is definitley something Bale should NOT do

 

[Carnotaur3]

What does Reese have to do with Cyberdyne getting the parts of the first T-800? Why would they need Reese for that? Just send one back. Actually, with Reese out of the way they can simply send the T-800 to Miles Dyson's door.

You guys are really grasping at staws to justify bad writting.

Because if it weren't for Reese being there there would be no stand-off between the T-800 and Kyle Reese. No stand-off means the T-800 did not get destroyed. And if it did not get destroyed then it would not have been found and researched by Cyberdyne. I don't see how this is a hard concept to understand. I said it right in the quote you made.

 

[DACMAN]

Because if it weren't for Reese being there there would be no stand-off between the T-800 and Kyle Reese. No stand-off means the T-800 did not get destroyed. And if it did not get destroyed then it would not have been found and researched by Cyberdyne. I don't see how this is a hard concept to understand. I said it right in the quote you made.

And I said that they could just send it straight to Cyberdyne now right in the quote you made. They obviously know everything about what happened in the past according to you. So why not just send whatever they need straight to Miles Dyson, or Cyberdyne? Why go through the trouble of having Reese destroy it the exact same way and hoping Cyberdyne finds it? Reese out of the way, send it with a bow attached in a big pretty box. Reese isn't needed for that to work at all.

The point is none of this makes any sense. The war was over in the first Terminator. Reese says the war was over, the main computer of Skynet had been smashed and sending a T-800 back in time to kill John Connor was a last ditch effort. There never should have been a 2. How did the machines make a new and improved terminator when the war should have been over? Not to mention how did they send him back when he wasn't covered in living tissue but liquid metal? Reese even says they destroyed the time machine so that no one else could go back. That's why he says "it's just him, and me." The franchise was filled with plot holes after they made T2. The difference is T2 was so good people could look the other way. TS, not so much.

 

[Warhammer]

It's not supposed to benefit Connor or the Resistance. It's supposed to benefit Skynet. Without Skynet being found in that factory in 1984, it will cease to exist. And in order to ensure that existence, Kyle must be sent back on a mission. I don't know what Skynet would have told Kyle. What ultimatum or trivial issue it would have presented him in order for him to do it. Maybe Skynet would have told him that Connor was important, and that he was supposed to defeat them. And maybe Kyle, wanting so bad for Skynet to be defeated, tried to do the right thing and protect Sarah Connor.

But if Skynet doesn't know Kyle is John's father, then Connor will never be because Kyle will not receive the picture and develop the love/obsession with her.

But here's the thing. Skynet being the one that sends Kyle Reese back already alters things. You really think that after these alterations, events in 1984 will occur almost exactly like they did in The Terminator? Unlikely. Who knows if they will end up being chased by the T-800 into a factory this time around? Even the things Kyle Reese will say when he is interrogated by the police will be different. You are suggesting things get altered in the future and since it is altered in the future, it probably won't pan out the same in the past either.

You don't have to try to make sense of Terminator Salvation's writing. We all suffered from how contradictory and stupid some of the plot was.

 

[AndThePickles]

Bale CAN be great at times but i stand by my claims made yonks ago that he has been on largely autopilot since American Psycho which was OSCAR WORTHY stuff imo.

He is stuck in brooding shouting mode far to often for my liking these days COME ON BALE do a romantic comedy, a comedy or something that takes you out of that bubble it will do you a world of good.

I've disliked him for years, now. Hated him in TDK, and now in Terminator, as well. I agree, after American Psycho, he's been blah. A comedy WOULD likely help! Anything to give him a different personality.

 

[gwynplaine]

I've disliked him for years, now. Hated him in TDK, and now in Terminator, as well. I agree, after American Psycho, he's been blah. A comedy WOULD likely help! Anything to give him a different personality.

Maybe a remake of Tootsie starring Bale. (or a reboot of the Ernest franchise, I'm not sure which I'd prefer.)

Joking aside you're right, I think it would be great to see Bale try different kind of roles.

 

[Cain]

The franchise was filled with plot wholes after they made T2. The difference is T2 was so good people could look the other way. TS, not so much.

I swear dude, "you're my favorite deputy"

 

[BestGirl]

And I said that they could just send it straight to Cyberdyne now right in the quote you made. They obviously know everything about what happened in the past according to you. So why not just send whatever they need straight to Miles Dyson, or Cyberdyne? Why go through the trouble of having Reese destroy it the exact same way and hoping Cyberdyne finds it? Reese out of the way, send it with a bow attached in a big pretty box. Reese isn't needed for that to work at all.

The point is none of this makes any sense. The war was over in the first Terminator. Reese says the war was over, the main computer of Skynet had been smashed and sending a T-800 back in time to kill John Connor was a last ditch effort. There never should have been a 2. How did the machines make a new and improved terminator when the war should have been over? Not to mention how did they send him back when he wasn't covered in living tissue but liquid metal? Reese even says they destroyed the time machine so that no one else could go back. That's why he says "it's just him, and me." The franchise was filled with plot wholes after they made T2. The difference is T2 was so good people could look the other way. TS, not so much.

But here's the thing. Skynet being the one that sends Kyle Reese back already alters things. You really think that after these alterations, events in 1984 will occur almost exactly like they did in The Terminator? Unlikely. Who knows if they will end up being chased by the T-800 into a factory this time around? Even the things Kyle Reese will say when he is interrogated by the police will be different. You are suggesting things get altered in the future and since it is altered in the future, it probably won't pan out the same in the past either.

You don't have to try to make sense of Terminator Salvation's writing. We all suffered from how contradictory and stupid some of the plot was.

Here's a thought: Skynet can turn Reese into a cyborg and program him to behave as he did in T1, thus maintaining the past. That's all I've got.

 

[Legion]

Here's the thing. If John Connor is killed in 2018, then he is not important and not the leader of the Resistance nor defeats Skynet. That means that if Kyle Reese somehow happens to have to be sent back to 2029, why will he need to protect Sarah Connor in 1984 since John Connor didn't make a difference in the future? What will be the excuse for Reese protecting Sarah Connor? Kate Connor or anyone else telling Reese to lie about how great John Connor used to be does not benefit the Resistance of the future in anyway.

Of course, the big issue is that since John Connor is dead, who knows if the Resistance will win the war, let alone conveniently by 2029.

Well I think that's part of the complexity of time travel. Skynet built a time machine but there's no way to know for sure the effects of time traveling. It made contact with the T-X in T3 so it would only know the facts about the T-800 and T-1000 missions.

So it probably knows that Kyle Reese was Sarah's protector and his involvement caused the destruction and discovery of the T-800. So killing him in the future would almost certainly disrupt time.

The results of killing John in 2018 is much more uncertain since it hasn't happened. Or the temptation to kill him was just too much and was a risk they were willing to take.

 

[DACMAN]

Yah know, at this point all this comes down to is a overly complicated way of saying TS sucked.

 

[Scarlet Spider]

The point is none of this makes any sense. The war was over in the first Terminator. Reese says the war was over, the main computer of Skynet had been smashed and sending a T-800 back in time to kill John Connor was a last ditch effort. There never should have been a 2. How did the machines make a new and improved terminator when the war should have been over? Not to mention how did they send him back when he wasn't covered in living tissue but liquid metal? Reese even says they destroyed the time machine so that no one else could go back. That's why he says "it's just him, and me." The franchise was filled with plot holes after they made T2. The difference is T2 was so good people could look the other way. TS, not so much.

Kyle Reese, both T-800's and the T-1000 were all sent back from the same point in time. Skynet sent the T-800 and the T-1000 before it's defense grid was smashed. When the Resistance broke into the Time Displacement Complex, immediately after Connor sent Reese back, he also sent the good T-800 back as well before they destroyed the time machine. That's why Reese didn't know someone else was also sent back by John.

 

[bullets]

I've disliked him for years, now. Hated him in TDK, and now in Terminator, as well. I agree, after American Psycho, he's been blah. A comedy WOULD likely help! Anything to give him a different personality.

Did you see him in Shaft? I thought that was kind of different. I agree he should try a role that is more light hearted so there is some sort of balance.

 

[livrule]

Kyle Reese, both T-800's and the T-1000 were all sent back from the same point in time. Skynet sent the T-800 and the T-1000 before it's defense grid was smashed. When the Resistance broke into the Time Displacement Complex, immediately after Connor sent Reese back, he also sent the good T-800 back as well before they destroyed the time machine. That's why Reese didn't know someone else was also sent back by John.

All correct ....

Many people make the mistake of thinking the T-1000 was sent months/years after the original T-800.

It was sent just moments later.

 

[Eric Brooks]

All correct ....

Many people make the mistake of thinking the T-1000 was sent months/years after the original T-800.

It was sent just moments later.

what about the TX and T800 from T3?

or the T800 and Summer's character from The Sarah Connor Chronicals?


how do they fit into all of this?

 

[DACMAN]

They don't.

 

[livrule]

They don't.

Exactly ... they don't.

Best to think of everything after T2 as an alternate timeline.

 

[Eric Brooks]

Exactly ... they don't.

Best to think of everything after T2 as an alternate timeline.

ah, ok

because in the tv show there were hundreds of terminators and resistance fighters sent to 2003 (not including summers character and the T800 that chased them around). Which completley contradicts EVERYTHING Kyle said in T1

same with T3


so yea, I guess alternate timeline is the best way to rationalise it

 

[Kud-Dukan]

I finally got to see it today, and maybe it's because I lowered my expectations because of the reviews, but I thought it was awesome. The story was passable, the action was top notch, and I really don't get the Bale hate with this movie. I thought he was great, all things considering.

8.5/10

(I've only seen the first two Terminators...I still have to see T3.)

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

As one of the rare posters who doesn't kiss Bale's ass but find him to be a solid actor most of the time, I honestly don't think that most "hated" his performance. I think that they were just terribly underwhelmed by it and part of that is because his character was woefully underwritten I admit.

Lets get one thing straight here I wasn't asking for the greatest characterization of all time, it's an action movie after all,I just wanted enough to help me to give a f**k.

It's as simple as this:

In T1 when Sarah and Kyle were in danger I gave a f**k.

In T2 when John, Sarah and even the g-ddamn Terminator were in trouble I gave a f**k. I even cared about what happened to Dyson. (Eventhough John was an annoying little bastard I cared if he lived or died)

In T3...er, lets skip this one shall we?

In T4 well I didn't really give a f**k about anybody but I admit to having some residual giving a f**kness about John Connor at the end of the movie because he's the savior of the world. I liked Anton as Kyle to but he was so underused that it was hard to care.

I think the only reason I don't hate Salvation is because the ending reminded me of T2's. By ending, I mean the factory show down.

 

[Eggyman]

Nice review, ISS. I was going to watch it at the weekend, but I was too busy giving a f***.