The Last Jedi TFA vs TLJ

TFA vs TLJ

  • TFA

  • TLJ


Results are only viewable after voting.
Because it's not. The climax of the film is Rey embracing the Force, and defeating Kylo. A Kylo who has also "awakened" by killing his father (though not how he intended). Hence the search for the map to Skywalker. It is the focal point not only of the climax, but the entire film. Poe does what he does and then we cut back to what matters. The entire base plot line functions to the goal of this. Putting Han and Rey in Kylo's reach.

This is one of the reasons I prefer TFA. It isn't about blowing up a base. It is about a young woman and young man making decisions that set them on a path down the light and dark of the Force. It's the eternal battle between the light and the dark that defines Star Wars.

Also did you just ding TFA for not telling us where the map comes from? Really? :woot:

The Resistance opposes the First Order? What is complicated about that? You throw in the word Rebellion, which has no baring on anything in TFA. Just like how TLJ decides to suddenly turn the Resistance into the Rebellion. :hehe:

Give me the Falcon chase in TFA over those any day. Give me the duel in the snow. Give me JJ's Force vision. Better color grading, better cinematography, better costume design, better effects work.

At this point Darth I'm just going to say that we're not going to come to terms on an agreement here so I'm just going to agree to disagree with you on this one here like I like the force awakens but it's still too me a flood movie and I don't agree with your assessment of it overall.
 
At this point Darth I'm just going to say that we're not going to come to terms on an agreement here so I'm just going to agree to disagree with you on this one here like I like the force awakens but it's still too me a flood movie and I don't agree with your assessment of it overall.
Agree to disagree. But one more thing. If the narrative of TFA is about Starkiller, why doesn't Rey blow it up? She is the main character after all. Why does the film end with her finding Luke? Why does TLJ make the Starkiller destruction almost irrelevant, while focusing on Rey, Kylo, Luke and the Force?
 
This is a hard one.

TFA is tested and true, following the formula and doing it well. It's a rehash of ANH, but it arguably does it better. Rey is a compelling character, and her relationship with Finn is equally good.

TLJ is such a more risky film. It has incredible moments, and a lot of questionable moments too. Some moments hit big... some moments feel controversial at best. I want to vote for TLJ, because it was a more bold feat of storytelling. They took the big risk with this movie.

Ultimately though, I left TFA feeling better about the opportunities the film presented. I had a good experience watching it. My experience in TLJ was, for better or worse, much more mixed... it may be one of the best executed Star Wars films, but it did feel like a rejection and destruction of all the films preceding it... to a degree. I felt like it aimed to break conventions purposely, and there are areas where I don't appreciate that. Maybe that's me, but my vote is TFA.
 
Agree to disagree. But one more thing. If the narrative of TFA is about Starkiller, why doesn't Rey blow it up? She is the main character after all. Why does the film end with her finding Luke? Why does TLJ make the Starkiller destruction almost irrelevant, while focusing on Rey, Kylo, Luke and the Force?

By this definition, the climax of TLJ was Rey lifting rocks, not Luke vs Kylo
 
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Agree to disagree. But one more thing. If the narrative of TFA is about Starkiller, why doesn't Rey blow it up? She is the main character after all. Why does the film end with her finding Luke? Why does TLJ make the Starkiller destruction almost irrelevant, while focusing on Rey, Kylo, Luke and the Force?

TFA has your well established multiple big climaxes. The force battle is one, just like the battle for the destruction of Starkiller Base. The climactic event is definitely the destruction of the base, as that's what's resolved while the force battle is left to continue another day through deux ex machina.

Just like in RotJ where Luke, Vader and Sidious is a hugely important scene but not all what the climax is about.

And in something like AotC it's secondary characters that come and accomplish all the goals, showing that the main protagonist doesn't have to do everything in a movie.
 
In the scenario you present, Harvey would have to stop the Joker to be comparable. You'd have to build the climax around him. The film doesn't. It's Batman's movie. This is Rey's movie and it is so for 2 acts. And then it isn't.

Even if I bought that argument, and I don't. But say I did, where is Rey? Not that Rey had to save the day. She needed to be more involved. They show her in the Falcon and then she is just randomly flying around, looking for them. Like she didn't see the base before. They basically come up with a flimsy way to remove her from the conflict.

One of the major flaws is how badly structured it is outside of Luke and Kylo. They have no real battle, Finn acts a fool, and instead of just using the Walkers with the big lasers on their back, they decide they need some mini-Death Star tech.

Well, not to get too far off track here discussing TDK, but the Dent protagonist thing has always been how Nolan himself described it. Of course, by the third act he becomes an antagonist and the ending is all about Batman. But Dent was set up as a protagonist of equal or greater importance for the first half of the film, while Bruce remains mostly a static character for that portion.

That's kind of my point here- while it's not a 1 to 1 comparison, I just see TLJ as doing something kinda similar with juggling co-protagonists and having that evolve over the course of the story. The moment Luke tossed the saber...I know everyone hates that moment, but for me that immediately signified his place in this story. That was a blatant refusal of the call in Campbell terms. That's something we've never seen from a would-be mentor figure in Star Wars. Yoda was toying with Luke in Empire...this was different, this was an emotional journey for Luke. R2's call to adventure with the Leia message, and Luke responding to it (the same call he initially refuses in ANH...beautiful) cemented the fact for me that Luke Skywalker was going to have the biggest journey in the film. So I was with that every step of the way and it was never weird for me that the third act was structured to favor his character most. The film concurrently provides a critical journey for Rey and Kylo that comes to a head in the second act and sets them off on their paths for the third act as well as the remainder of the trilogy.

By no means though am I saying TLJ is perfectly executed, and you bring up valid criticisms about how the third act is set up. I guess for me, how satisfying Luke's arc was trumped everything and I may need more viewings to even out my perspective a bit there as far as the film's flaws go. The third act has worked like gangbusters for me on every viewing so far and is my favorite part of the movie.

As always, I respect your SW opinions and appreciate that you are willing to simultaneously discuss strengths and weaknesses of the film in an evenhanded manner. I think this type of nuanced discussion is sadly lacking elsewhere when it comes to this insanely divisive film.
 
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Seems every movie in this trilogy is going to have the argument it's actually about multiple protagonists instead, the argument with TFA being that Finn is also the protagonist and not just Rey, and now with TLJ I've seen both Luke and Kylo are also the protagonist. Guess Poe's next for 9, he's the only major new male character who hasn't apparently also been the protagonist.
 
See, I honestly Luke and Rey were co-protagonists in this film. (and Kylo, who acts as both but reverts back to antagonist by the end). Luke clearly does not fit squarely into the mentor archetype that Rey (and we) are expecting him to fall into, and Rey's plea with him ends up being as much, if not more about Luke finding his way back to the Force as it is about Rey needing a teacher/parent figure.

Luke buys the Resistance time and inspires the galaxy, but Rey joins the fight and is the one who actually saves them in the end. I mean compare that to Luke in Empire. What does he actually accomplish? He falls into a trap, is not able to save his friends and gets his hand cut off.

The fact that Luke had a more pronounced journey in this film isn't a flaw to me. I liken it to TDK where Harvey/Batman/Gordon are all co-protagonists but Harvey undergoes the biggest change and can therefore be argued to be the lead protagonist.

The title of this film refers to Luke. IMO it's his second hero's journey in the saga.

I agree with this like 100% and we did still have Rey there in the falcon.
 
Seems every movie in this trilogy is going to have the argument it's actually about multiple protagonists instead, the argument with TFA being that Finn is also the protagonist and not just Rey, and now with TLJ I've seen both Luke and Kylo are also the protagonist. Guess Poe's next for 9, he's the only major new male character who hasn't apparently also been the protagonist.

Heh, I'd argue Poe was more of a protagonist in TLJ than Finn was, since his story arc wasn't chopped up by editing, spawned Finn's as an off shoot sidequests, and was much more clear in its message. :woot: Though, more seriously, I'd rather Finn not be prioritized behind Poe next movie.

See, I honestly Luke and Rey were co-protagonists in this film. (and Kylo, who acts as both but reverts back to antagonist by the end). Luke clearly does not fit squarely into the mentor archetype that Rey (and we) are expecting him to fall into, and Rey's plea with him ends up being as much, if not more about Luke finding his way back to the Force as it is about Rey needing a teacher/parent figure.

Luke buys the Resistance time and inspires the galaxy, but Rey joins the fight and is the one who actually saves them in the end. I mean compare that to Luke in Empire. What does he actually accomplish? He falls into a trap, is not able to save his friends and gets his hand cut off.

The fact that Luke had a more pronounced journey in this film isn't a flaw to me. I liken it to TDK where Harvey/Batman/Gordon are all co-protagonists but Harvey undergoes the biggest change and can therefore be argued to be the lead protagonist.

The title of this film refers to Luke. IMO it's his second hero's journey in the saga.

I'd argue that Luke, Kylo, and Rey are the 3 protagonists in TLJ, and roughly in that order; Luke has both his "getting his groove back" storyline and the mystery of Ben's fall and confrontation with Kylo at the end, Kylo has the mystery plus his ascension to leadership of the First Order, and Rey acts as the PI investigating the mystery and has her own subplot based around her obsession with her parentage.

And if I could identify any flaw with this setup, it's that Rey *does* end up feeling a bit like her turn is over before the climax for the film, and that her parentage subplot kind of limited her character development and postponed real growth for her until IX.

Rian Johnson explained his reasoning behind Rey's parentage by saying it was about giving her an answer to her "Who am I?"driving question that would leave her without a concrete answer. I can see the dramatic value in that, and I'd argue the talk post-Praetorian Guard fight gets that dramatic value out thanks to Drive and Ridley's acting under Johnson's direction. But I have an issue with that particular question being the driving force behind her personal subplot; it's a great starting question for a character in, say the first movie of a series early on, before the character tackles the more growth related question of "What will I become?"; that's the question driving Luke after the death of his aunt and uncle in ANH, Anakin from the moment he leaves his mother in TPM, and even Finn right after the opening of TFA.

Because Rey and her subplot are focused on that, she remains largely static as a character throughout TLJ. She was a moral young woman with heroic urges in TFA (where her character only really becomes mildly dynamic after the Force awakens inside her), and she's still a moral young woman with heroic urges in TLJ. She doesn't even have a training montage and maturation like Luke does in ESB, since they cut short her training and limit her time to 18 hours. We never really feel she's in danger of going to the darkside; even her visit to the cave, while a brilliant visual technique for addressing her parents, doesn't ever feel like she's succumbing to the darkside.

And since that question drives her subplot, once she gets her answer in the throne room... She's basically done with her subplot. Kylo and Luke have one more confrontation because, as made clear with their mystery, they still loom large in each other's psyches. But Rey is only really a prop during the confrontation to symbolize that Luke is right and the Jedi will survive. There's no dramatic tension when she lifts the rocks because we've never had any reason to doubt she could do this. And she's still not far removed from where she ended in TFA as a character.
 
Well, not to get too far off track here discussing TDK, but the Dent protagonist thing has always been how Nolan himself described it. Of course, by the third act he becomes an antagonist and the ending is all about Batman. But Dent was set up as a protagonist of equal or greater importance for the first half of the film, while Bruce remains mostly a static character for that portion.

That's kind of my point here- while it's not a 1 to 1 comparison, I just see TLJ as doing something kinda similar with juggling co-protagonists and having that evolve over the course of the story. The moment Luke tossed the saber...I know everyone hates that moment, but for me that immediately signified his place in this story. That was a blatant refusal of the call in Campbell terms. That's something we've never seen from a would-be mentor figure in Star Wars. Yoda was toying with Luke in Empire...this was different, this was an emotional journey for Luke. R2's call to adventure with the Leia message, and Luke responding to it (the same call he initially refuses in ANH...beautiful) cemented the fact for me that Luke Skywalker was going to have the biggest journey in the film. So I was with that every step of the way and it was never weird for me that the third act was structured to favor his character most. The film concurrently provides a critical journey for Rey and Kylo that comes to a head in the second act and sets them off on their paths for the third act as well as the remainder of the trilogy.

By no means though am I saying TLJ is perfectly executed, and you bring up valid criticisms about how the third act is set up. I guess for me, how satisfying Luke's arc was trumped everything and I may need more viewings to even out my perspective a bit there as far as the film's flaws go. The third act has worked like gangbusters for me on every viewing so far and is my favorite part of the movie.

As always, I respect your SW opinions and appreciate that you are willing to simultaneously discuss strengths and weaknesses of the film in an evenhanded manner. I think this type of nuanced discussion is sadly lacking elsewhere when it comes to this insanely divisive film.
You too, man. I do quite like the film and the more I sit with it, I feel like I like some aspects more, some less, but I definitely really like it. Might grow with me over time even still. I also definitely plan on seeing it at least one more time in theaters.

To me, Kylo is the bad guy. It is also his story, but in the same way it is also the story of the Joker, Walter O'Dim, Doc Ock, Vader, etc. Dent is actually a really good analogy for Kylo here imo. The false protagonist, that we get to compare and contrast the real protagonist against. Why their actions, their decisions define them. Make them different, one light, the other dark.

I always expected the third act to focus on Luke. What I did not expect was for the act to be kind of pointless before that and for Rey to disappear. I get the idea of the Rey/Kylo stuff coming at the end of act 2. The problem with that though is Kylo remains ever presence, while Rey gets typical Chewie duty. The more I think about it, the less I like it, even while loving those last 10-15 mins so much. And in isolation, it might be my favorite Star Wars. And I don't dislike this movie at all. I really like it. But even as I adore Luke's arc, it just feels like a lot of this movie is oddly subservient to it in the third act.

Also, I do think something else needs to be point out about Luke's arc here.

He is setup to progress to teach Rey. The Yoda scene totally sets that up. Except he dies. Now I don't know how they are going to handle Force Ghost in IX. Maybe they will go with the idea that Obi-Wan couldn't teach Luke because he "sucked" compared to Yoda. But I always thought Yoda came in because dead Ben couldn't teach.

And because of this, making it Luke's story feels even more off for me.
 
I always expected the third act to focus on Luke. What I did not expect was for the act to be kind of pointless before that and for Rey to disappear. I get the idea of the Rey/Kylo stuff coming at the end of act 2. The problem with that though is Kylo remains ever presence, while Rey gets typical Chewie duty. The more I think about it, the less I like it, even while loving those last 10-15 mins so much. And in isolation, it might be my favorite Star Wars. And I don't dislike this movie at all. I really like it. But even as I adore Luke's arc, it just feels like a lot of this movie is oddly subservient to it in the third act.

I understand where you're coming from. I guess the way I saw it, the Falcon is her ship now and we hadn't seen it in action for the entire film, so seeing her enter with the Falcon there was a satisfying moment for me that felt right. Plus she does end up saving them, and it's the first time the Resistance members see her actually use the Force. I feel like even if those beats may not have been played as 'epic' as Luke's conclusion, to me they still felt like essential moments for Rey's character assuming her role as the Rebellion's new, new hope going forward. And Poe is set up to take the torch from Leia now too.

Given that Rey is the lead protagonist of the new trilogy, I get where you're coming from though. I just have a feeling it will sit better in the context of the completed trilogy, once we've seen the conclusion of Rey's arc. It feels like the baton has now been fully passed, and Rey/Finn/Poe/Kylo are ready to carry the story on their own backs for the final chapter. But I think given Luke's absence in VII, he really needed to have his moment in the spotlight here.

He is setup to progress to teach Rey. The Yoda scene totally sets that up. Except he dies. Now I don't know how they are going to handle Force Ghost in IX. Maybe they will go with the idea that Obi-Wan couldn't teach Luke because he "sucked" compared to Yoda. But I always thought Yoda came in because dead Ben couldn't teach.

And because of this, making it Luke's story feels even more off for me.

Well,
I took the Yoda scene more as set up that Rey has everything she needs to rebuild the Jedi order anew and better- ability, a strong moral compass, and last but not least the actual sacred texts. I saw that scene as more about Yoda helping relieve Luke of the heavy burden he'd been carrying of his own personal failures and the failures of the Jedi as a whole. Luke was holding onto the past and crippled by it- as evidenced by his struggle to actually burn the tree no matter how much he felt compelled to. Yoda helps him let go of that, which I think helps clear the way for Luke to embrace being a hero/legend one last time. I also think Luke's lessons about the flaws of the old Jedi, and how they don't own the Force ultimately will prove to be valuable lessons for Rey going forward as the torch carrier of the Jedi order, even if they weren't the lessons she was expecting to get at the time. And I think going out as a legend for the galaxy and igniting the spark could end up proving to be more valuable in the long run than if he simply had just trained Rey.

You bring up a solid point about why Yoda was even necessary in the first place if they go the route of ghost Luke completing Rey's training in IX. As far as that goes, let's not forget Obi-Wan did willingly sacrifice himself so he could be of aid to Luke in the spirit realm. I also think we have to address the fact that Rey is simply a bit further along at this point in the journey than Luke was respectively. She's basically where Luke was in ROTJ at this point. Remember, he shows up to Jabba's palace with a new self-constructed lightsaber, force-chokin' and mind-trickin' folks without ever having returned to Yoda to complete his training. I'm very interested to see how much Rey will be able to advance just from having the Jedi texts and exploring the Force on her own in between VIII and IX. And I think the larger angle of the force "awakening" throughout the galaxy is still something that could be coming into play. I feel like overall, Luke's journey was more about righting wrongs of the past while Rey's will ultimately be more about building a better future.

Side note, I also love how Luke's final acts are an embodiment of what Yoda taught him. "Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter" "A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never attack". Luke at the end is perhaps the most Jedi we've ever seen anybody Jedi. This doesn't specfically address your issue, but still....quite amazing in the context of the broader saga.

Enjoy it in 8-bit glory:

[YT]oFfMN6lPnlA[/YT]

:woot:
 
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Force Awakens. I was way more engaged even though the story was derivative to say the least. The Last Jedi has too many characters under serves and doesn't answer enough questions from TFA. Like both movies better than RotJ.
 
That 8 bit thing was awesome!

Yeah, it's pretty rad

Make me want to pull out the SNES and play the Star Wars games. Speaking of, I really wish Disney would release The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi on the PS4/X-Box

I was hoping they would be coming out seeing as how they released A New Hope 2 years ago
 
Neither are good, but at least the frce awakens tried to make a rehash of a good film. so it gets the nod.
 
That is the major flaw of the third act of TLJ. Why I mentioned it. :woot:

The difference here is you feel TFA did not do the same thing, while I feel like it totally did. But again, we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this point :mnm:
 
TFA has some things going for it that TLJ doesn't, not least of which is it handles Finn a lot better than TLJ. TFA is tantalizing in it's mysterious revelations. TFA does indeed pluck the nostalgia strings of your heart. But... It's themes are no where near as resonant to me compared to TLJ and there is nothing that comes close to what was done with Luke in TFA either.

Surprisingly TFA might have fewer "flaws" but I think for me despite that, TLJ is the richer, more compelling and more interesting and entertaining film.
 
TFA has some things going for it that TLJ doesn't, not least of which is it handles Finn a lot better than TLJ. TFA is tantalizing in it's mysterious revelations. TFA does indeed pluck the nostalgia strings of your heart. But... It's themes are no where near as resonant to me compared to TLJ and there is nothing that comes close to what was done with Luke in TFA either.

Surprisingly TFA might have fewer "flaws" but I think for me despite that, TLJ is the richer, more compelling and more interesting and entertaining film.

I hope I'm not misconstruing your view here, but I think I've heard a few other people also make the judgement that the value and compelling elements of Luke and the Force plot easily overcome issues you may see with the others subplots. Which I can understand, since there are other films where I acknowledge issues ranging from conceptualization to execution, but am still so invested in so elements that I just don't care.

And I can still totally understand the strengths of the Luke storyline, even if it doesn't quite engage me and if I personally disengage from their goals in it. It's got the most investment from the writing and is the element that takes the most risks while striving to make them work well in internal logic.

My issue is that since I don't really totally engage with Luke's storyline, and since I find the Rey elements of that plot (the ones I was most invested in there) the weakest element, it doesn't become my priority. And since Finn was easily my favorite character from TFA and I really connected with him in TFA, and since I think he got screwed in a badly written filler spinoff to the badly written space chase...

...wel, let's just say that my judgement of the film as good, but not great, hinges a lot on me intellectually understanding the value of Luke's story, and trying to place aside the VIRULENT AND UNYIELDING RAGE!!! about Finn's story and the stupidity of the Space Chase.
 
It's really close but I'm giving TLJ a bit of an edge here because after viewing it more than once, I think it's going to be the one I view more often going forward.
 
Personally, I don't get the hate for the space race in TLJ. It was a dramatic storyline that had a ticking clock that was fairly intense. My only issue really is how the space race was interspersed with Rey's training. The result was that the training came off as really short. A situation that should have taken months to years is apparently settled in...days? hours?

Other than that, though.. I thought Poe's story was compelling and more insightful than some Star Wars scenes I've seen. The dangers of reckless heroism was on display, and that's a message that we rarely get in Hollywood films. That's why I liked it. The mission was a failure... but I found that sort of refreshing... not all heroic plans work all the time, and I liked this unexpected take.
 
Personally, I don't get the hate for the space race in TLJ. It was a dramatic storyline that had a ticking clock that was fairly intense. My only issue really is how the space race was interspersed with Rey's training. The result was that the training came off as really short. A situation that should have taken months to years is apparently settled in...days? hours?

It was always ambiguous how much time Luke spent with Yoda in Empire. And in both cases, the training wasn't completed. To call it training in and of itself is kind of a misnomer anyway. It's not about increasing one's strength, one's power level, but rather grasping certain spiritual truths.
 
Personally, I don't get the hate for the space race in TLJ. It was a dramatic storyline that had a ticking clock that was fairly intense. My only issue really is how the space race was interspersed with Rey's training. The result was that the training came off as really short. A situation that should have taken months to years is apparently settled in...days? hours?

Other than that, though.. I thought Poe's story was compelling and more insightful than some Star Wars scenes I've seen. The dangers of reckless heroism was on display, and that's a message that we rarely get in Hollywood films. That's why I liked it. The mission was a failure... but I found that sort of refreshing... not all heroic plans work all the time, and I liked this unexpected take.

Given the time constraints, given that no Star Wars film up to now has had three concurrent plots, given that the last film ends and this one begins with the destruction of the Republic and the First Order conquest of the galaxy, I felt that the space chase plot was entirely misguided and was the wrong story to tell and the wrong way to develop those characters and advance the larger story. To me, the larger Resistance vs First Order story has been the most problematic aspect of this new trilogy, and therefore needed more development and context to help flesh it out and make it stand out.

I quite like Canto Bight as a concept, particularly what little we got about the rich enjoying the toil of the poor, and it perhaps could have been placed into a story about the First Order’s conquest and the sort of order they envisioned. In particular, with Poe as a hotshot Resistance “war hero”, Finn as essentially an ex-child soldier, and Rose as a potential folk hero, they could have used such a story to highlight a new type of heroism (and Rebellion) that empowers the powerless and liberates the enslaved, that births true freedom rather than just destroying leaders or giant space stations.

This could have tied into TLJ’s themes, while also serving as a natural critique of the old Rebel Alliance and an explanation of its true failure, because it’s victory was solely based on the destruction of a Death Star. And it could have therefore had a stronger message not just about the idolization of heroes and the folly of rushing headlong into battle, but also about our (and I mean American) idolization of armed rebellion as the epitome of what it means to fight for freedom and the only true guarantor of justice.

And perhaps, in that way, it might also have tied into what could have been a very good whole-saga critique of what it means to be a Jedi — not fighting as a war hero, but serving as a guardian of peace and justice. After all, Star Wars is not a pacifist manifesto. Wars don’t make one great, but making peace and upholding justice, those might very well do it.
 
TLJ reasonated with me because of the Luke and Kylo stuff.

TFA, I thought was okay the first time. Then when I tried to rewatch it I couldn't make it 5 minutes.

I like both better than the prequels TFA.

I put RO and ROTJ above all others.
 
Personally, I don't get the hate for the space race in TLJ. It was a dramatic storyline that had a ticking clock that was fairly intense. My only issue really is how the space race was interspersed with Rey's training. The result was that the training came off as really short. A situation that should have taken months to years is apparently settled in...days? hours?

Other than that, though.. I thought Poe's story was compelling and more insightful than some Star Wars scenes I've seen. The dangers of reckless heroism was on display, and that's a message that we rarely get in Hollywood films. That's why I liked it. The mission was a failure... but I found that sort of refreshing... not all heroic plans work all the time, and I liked this unexpected take.

For me, it's because the Space Chase plotline has the most inadequate writing of the film. It's not quite like there's one massive plot hole in the thing, but it is like there's a lot of medium sized issues that compile to make it the most juvenile plotting in the film, even more than the still sloppy and chopped down Finn plot. I'm not going to attack the physics of the chase, since Star Wars has never incorporated actual physics laws well enough to really get angry at laser's that fall off after a certain distance or perplexing speed and acceleration questions.

To start off, the Space Chase involves a few large issues that I subjectively disagree with and find to act against its dramatic purpose. First off, it's strictly a one dimensional, comparatively slow speed chase; there's no jukes, no turns, nothing to make it visually interesting. Second, the film wants this tense chase scene to both be tense and yet long enough to encompass the timeline of the film; an 18 hour straight line chase, one long enough for multiple parties to drop out and drop back in, lacks the intesity *you* found in it for myself and others. And since the bombardment of the Raddus is rendered ineffective by the distance between the ships, we don't have the feeling of them being worn down like they did in the Battlestar episode where they're constantly having to fight and repair their ship.

Those first two are largely subjective, but the third is where you enter possible plot hole territory: the lack of reasoning for why the chase even continues.

Why no TIEs?
The film tries to say that the Raddus and its fleet can escape capital ship bombardment and thus the TIE fighters must withdraw... But there were only three TIE Fighters deployed, including Kylo's, and the two SF TIEs were the ones that cracked open the bridge of the Raddus like a bad egg. And we know that regular Star Destroyers carry plenty fo thane SF TIES from TFA, so why aren't they being deployed en masse? And since we just exited a space battle that demonstrated how capital ship weaponry is not guaranteed at all to destroy multiple fighters, so even the perfunctory shot of Kylo's wingmen getting blown up feels negligible. So there's really no good reason why this film's First Order, depicted as far more Empire-like in its overwhelming resources than it was in TFA, doesn't just swarm the fleet with TIEs, especially since there's no fighter cover for the Resistance.

And all that's being generous and not finding it stupid that the FO doesn't have medium-sized support craft.

Head them off at the pass!
The film never provides an adequate explanation for why no Star Destroyers just hyperspace in front of the Raddus, either just immediately in a straight line, or after withdrawing to another system, then dropping right in front of them. We know you can get that specific, both in the trilogy from Han's landing on Starkiller Base and from this very movie; both Finn and Rey pilot their respective vehicles (the Libertine and the Millennium Falcon) through hyperspace and right to the Supremacy. Clearly, you can immediately catch up to the Raddus. There's nothing stopping you.

The only logical explanation I've heard for both of these issues is that Hux really is a dumb@$$, and not even a usual one like you'd see on Rebels; he's somehow even less logical than their comedic characters. And that significantly lowers any threat he or the First Order are supposed to have in this film, and glaringly contrasts with the Imperials in ESB and Hux himself in TFA.

How not to write Poe's plotline
Poe's plotline is already on shaky ground alongside Finn's; the idea of using two secondary plots to again hammer home the whole "failure is the best teacher" lesson is soaring towards redundancy, and towards face-playingly bad if you don't write them well. And they're not; the character at the center of the Raddus plot, Holdo, is written not as a character but as a trope device. When Johnson wants the audience in Poe's side and tricked into thinking that Finn will have something significant to do, he writes Holdo as your classic flawed Neidermeyer military officer; while an officer would have the right to refuse to give a recently demoted captain prove legend information, there's no damn good reason not to brief a stressed and worried crew about what the plan is, or at least to excuse why it's not shared. This is an officer who has a clear flaw in the land of fiction; that's why the audience turns on her at first. Then, suddenly, when Johnson wants to try springing his trap on you, he suddenly shifts gears and tries to write Holdo as the righteous authority figure; she spouts out some oxymoronic fortune cookie line about how Hope is best when it unknown, and suddenly is portrayed as in the right the whole time. We skip past the fact she clearly has actual flaws that even some real world military personnel would find serious; there is a moral and political element to command, and shushing people and sending them back to their stations before staring out a window is not going to meet that element.

But this is then exacerbated because the other twist Johnson tries to pull to reveal what plan Holdo and Leia have and what makes it the "smart play" falls flat on its face upon any inspection, because it's colossally stupid. They've been pursued in a straight line for literally almost a whole day, and we find out they've been aiming towards a planet here, out in the vast emptiness of space. Any idiot in the First Order is going to presume that means they're heading to that planet. And any moderately imaginative officer is going to recommend leaving significant forces at Crait on that possibility, and just pursue the Raddus with a still overwhelming fleet. So already, the plan is on shaky ground, since it depends on the FO ignoring the planet. Second, the film's depiction of cloaking is wholly sensor based; there's no attempt to establish a visual component. So the plan also depends on no one in the First Order looking out the window. Maybe you want to argue that it's too far away for the naked eye, but there's these great things called cameras and telescopes, like the one Snoke has and uses in the film for that purpose. Oh, and it turns out the FO can literally hit a few buttons and uncover any cloaking attempts... So why the hell don't they just constantly run that?!?

And all this so we can teach Poe a lesson and render all of Finn's story pointless because of DJ hearing something, and wrap it up with a visually spectacular but perplexing use of a hyperspace ramming tactic (they had four heroic characters in guard the Supremacy at that time, and they couldn't use even one of them to set up why the Raddus could do this but others ships couldn't earlier?!?). It's a badly plotted conflict with a badly plotted resolution, and you could in all honesty skip over all of it (or go to the bathroom them, like I did) and miss nothing with worthwhile craftsmanship out side of the acting.
 
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